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 sirreal
devoid
Registered: 01/11/03
Posts: 1,775
Loc: In the borderlands
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 Throwing curveballs! 
#5066068 - 12/15/05 07:16 AM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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These stories come from the Oct. 2005 issue of the readers digest. According to the article 2,344 of the 7,574 three-strikers in the states?s penal system got their third strike for property offenses. ??Scott Benscoter struck out after stealing a pair of running shoes, and is serving 25 years to life! His prior offenses were for residential burglaries that, according to the public defenders office, did not involve violence.
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Gregory Taylor was trying to jimmy a screen door open to get into the kitchen of a church where he had previously been given food. But he had two prior offenses from more than a decade before: One for snatching a purse and the other for attempted robbery without a weapon. He?s also doing 25 years to life.
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There was nothing honorable about it, nothing particularly heinous, either, when Leandro Andrade, a 37 year-old Army veteran with three kids and a drug habit, walked into a Kmart store in Ontario, California, stuffed five videos into his waistband and tried to leave without paying. Security guards stopped him, but two weeks later, Andrade went to another Kmart and tried to steal four more videos. The police were called, and he was tried and convicted.
That was ten years ago, and Leandro Andrade is still behind bars. He figures to be there a lot longer. He came out of the courtroom with a sentence of 50 years to life!
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A Florida mom, Clyburn accompanied her boyfriend to a pawn-shop to sell his .22-caliber pistol. She provided her ID because her boyfriend didn?t bring his own, and the couple got thirty dollars for the gun. But Clyburn had a previous criminal record for minor drug charges, and when federal authorities ran a routine check of the pawnshop?s records, they produced a ?hit?- a felon in possession of a fire-arm. That?s automatically 15 years in federal prison, which is exactly what Clyburn got. ?I never even held the gun,? she noted in an interview from prison.
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These are just four out of 2,344 examples of how crazy this shit is. It?s hard to sleep at night knowing that there are people who could be spending the rest of their lives in a cage for things like stealing a pair of shoes from Nike or trying to get into a church kitchen for a cold bowl of soup.
Gotta do something.
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I may not always tell the truth, but atleast I'm honest
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I see what everyone is saying. It is so hard to form an opinion when you see both sides so clearly!
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cookeman
Live and let live
 
Registered: 10/26/05
Posts: 1,077
Last seen: 11 years, 10 days
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 Re: Throwing curveballs! [Re: sirreal]
#5066087 - 12/15/05 07:27 AM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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Yeah it's nothing new that the US gov't is pretty messed up. Violent criminals get off all the time because of how their cards played out while other criminals get screwed because they play their hand wrong in court. That's why it's so scary awaiting trial because you never know what kind of judge and jury you're going to get. You think you might just get off with a slap on the wrist. Maybe some probabtion. Then you get slapped with several years in prison. Then I read about people that get busted for violent crimes like assault and battery all the time and just keep getting more and more probation. Messed up huh?  
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“Let’s put it this way – to lump psychedelic mushrooms into the same group as methamphetamine is like lumping the Bible into the same group as Mein Kampf.
I mean shit; they’re both books, right?”
Joe Rogan
R.I.P. - "Bones" - One of the greatest people I've ever had the pleasure of getting to know and become friends with.
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sirreal
devoid
Registered: 01/11/03
Posts: 1,775
Loc: In the borderlands
Last seen: 16 years, 11 months
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Re: Throwing curveballs! [Re: cookeman]
#5066102 - 12/15/05 07:42 AM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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How can reasonable people allow this to happen? Is it that we really do not give a fuck about each other. Don't get me wrong, I am not into all that free love shit, it just doesn't make that much sense to me.But what about empathy? What about common sense? These laws are absurd!
The point you made about the inconsistencies in the judicial system is a big one. We have lost our great big, collective mind!
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I may not always tell the truth, but atleast I'm honest
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I see what everyone is saying. It is so hard to form an opinion when you see both sides so clearly!
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sirreal
devoid
Registered: 01/11/03
Posts: 1,775
Loc: In the borderlands
Last seen: 16 years, 11 months
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Re: Throwing curveballs! [Re: sirreal]
#5069362 - 12/15/05 10:33 PM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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Does this disturb anyone else? Does anyone agree with these laws? Anyone? Any emotion stirred by this news or am I just overreacting?
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I may not always tell the truth, but atleast I'm honest
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I see what everyone is saying. It is so hard to form an opinion when you see both sides so clearly!
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GazzBut
Refraction
Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 4,773
Loc: London UK
Last seen: 3 months, 12 days
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Re: Throwing curveballs! [Re: sirreal]
#5070246 - 12/16/05 06:42 AM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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Its sick. I cant understand how these sentneces can be justified.
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Always Smi2le
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 luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: Throwing curveballs! [Re: sirreal]
#5070274 - 12/16/05 06:59 AM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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Don't do the crime.....
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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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sirreal
devoid
Registered: 01/11/03
Posts: 1,775
Loc: In the borderlands
Last seen: 16 years, 11 months
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Quote:
luvdemshrooms said:
Don't do the crime.....
OF course that would be the best thing. But the fact that these people are stupid does not give us the right to be so cruel, does it? The punishment should fit the crime. If not, why not just execute them.
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I may not always tell the truth, but atleast I'm honest
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I see what everyone is saying. It is so hard to form an opinion when you see both sides so clearly!
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 2 months, 7 days
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Re: Throwing curveballs! [Re: GazzBut]
#5070362 - 12/16/05 07:58 AM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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> Its sick. I cant understand how these sentneces can be justified.
Although I agree with you, often such examples are distorted. There is always another side to the argument, and it is usually just as valid.
The real problem is that people have given up on rehabilitation and instead decided that punishment is the only way to deal with the problems. When we take away hope from prisoners, what do we expect? The entire judicial system needs a good swift kick in the ...
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Just another spore in the wind.
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sirreal
devoid
Registered: 01/11/03
Posts: 1,775
Loc: In the borderlands
Last seen: 16 years, 11 months
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Re: Throwing curveballs! [Re: Seuss]
#5070402 - 12/16/05 08:12 AM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Seuss said:
often such examples are distorted. There is always another side to the argument, and it is usually just as valid.
The real problem is that people have given up on rehabilitation and instead decided that punishment is the only way to deal with the problems. When we take away hope from prisoners, what do we expect? The entire judicial system needs a good swift kick in the ...
The crimes they were convicted of are pretty cut and dry. The facts are pretty straight. What kind of information could change the fact that these sentences are insane?
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I may not always tell the truth, but atleast I'm honest
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I see what everyone is saying. It is so hard to form an opinion when you see both sides so clearly!
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daimyo
Monticello
Registered: 05/13/04
Posts: 7,751
Last seen: 12 years, 2 months
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Re: Throwing curveballs! [Re: sirreal]
#5071154 - 12/16/05 11:39 AM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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Career criminals deserve career sentences. Those examples include a career burglar, a purse-snatching church robber, a drug addict klepto, and an armed felon. Why should they be let back out in the public to do more harm?
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"I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."
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gregorio
Too Damn Old
Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 2,837
Loc: Classified
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Re: Throwing curveballs! [Re: sirreal]
#5071184 - 12/16/05 11:49 AM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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The problem that I have with mandatory sentencing is I think it gives to much power to the legislative branch of government where these powers were meant to be with the judicial branch.
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GazzBut
Refraction
Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 4,773
Loc: London UK
Last seen: 3 months, 12 days
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Quote:
Don't do the crime.....
Surely the punishment should fit the crime.
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Always Smi2le
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Aldous
enthusiast
Registered: 10/19/99
Posts: 980
Loc: inside my skull
Last seen: 1 month, 5 days
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Re: Throwing curveballs! [Re: sirreal]
#5075588 - 12/17/05 03:09 PM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
sirreal said:
What about common sense? These laws are absurd!
From a humane point of view, they are. But from a cynical-economical point of view, not at all.
They combine several advantages. If you put as many poors away as you can, there are many economical benefits. One, it makes the unemployment statistics drop dramatically. More than 2 million is not a small number. Two, the whole prison-industrial complex mechanism. A large private prison industry started to evolve some years ago. If higher numbers of inmates boost private interests, that number is very unlikely to drop anytime soon, and you can count on politicians to see to it. Besides, an industry means employment, once more. The poor are simply cheap fuel for a perverted system based on bucks, once again.
The other option would be social security, education etc. resulting in less poverty and low imprisonment rates (ever looked at the figures in European countries?), but who is going to benefit from that? Society as a whole, not Wackenhut or some other corporation. As long as politicians will get bucks from the industry, the industry will get (public!) bucks from imprisoning the underclass. Once again, profits are privatized and costs are socialized. This negation of democracy has spread to about all areas of public life (think Defense!) and to many other countries. It's what makes the US and it's influence in the world so disgusting (there are good things about the US too).
But I don't see anything absurd here. Nor do those who benefit.
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nakors_junk_bag
Lobster Bisque
Registered: 11/23/04
Posts: 2,415
Loc: ethereality
Last seen: 15 years, 11 months
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Re: Throwing curveballs! [Re: daimyo]
#5075698 - 12/17/05 04:01 PM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
daimyo said:
Career criminals deserve career sentences. Those examples include a career burglar, a purse-snatching church robber, a drug addict klepto, and an armed felon. Why should they be let back out in the public to do more harm?
You know, it ain't that black and white. Many here are among are probably felons, few here among us are probably a real threat to society. I mean, 15 years for a gun she sold for her boyfriend. That shit does't make sense. They arrested her for getting rid of the thing she was culpable for.
A hungry man serving twenty five years to life for trying to steal some food from a chuch. What the fuck, atleast he had the decency to steal from a place that gains most of its stores and supllies from donations and not people who work for a living. they probably were going to give that food to some hungry poor guy anywayz. Guess he won't be hungry now, he won't be free either.
The drug addict klepto guy is surer than hell dumb as hell. Life sentnece though, wow. Maybe like a year or two would have been better suited to the crime.
I am not advocating a weakening of the stance we take on laws. I only wish to see a more responsible and little better thought out execution of our laws. This shit is just common sense. Fucking judges and law makers.
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Asshole
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nakors_junk_bag
Lobster Bisque
Registered: 11/23/04
Posts: 2,415
Loc: ethereality
Last seen: 15 years, 11 months
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Re: Throwing curveballs! [Re: gregorio]
#5075703 - 12/17/05 04:03 PM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
gregorio said:
The problem that I have with mandatory sentencing is I think it gives to much power to the legislative branch of government where these powers were meant to be with the judicial branch.
thats is a damn good point. briliance i say.
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Asshole
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DieCommie
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Quote:
nakors_junk_bag said:
Quote:
gregorio said:
The problem that I have with mandatory sentencing is I think it gives to much power to the legislative branch of government where these powers were meant to be with the judicial branch.
thats is a damn good point. briliance i say.
But the judical branch takes part in its own share of "legislating from the bench", so it all evens out in the end.
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nakors_junk_bag
Lobster Bisque
Registered: 11/23/04
Posts: 2,415
Loc: ethereality
Last seen: 15 years, 11 months
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Re: Throwing curveballs! [Re: DieCommie]
#5077115 - 12/18/05 12:26 AM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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goddamn thats no good either.
your observation is duly noted, but I wouldn't say it "evens" out. It more or less is just as fuct as the what the legislation is doing. I mean a minimum sentnece is a minimum sentence. its no negotiable if the defendent is found guilty.
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Asshole
Edited by nakors_junk_bag (12/18/05 12:29 AM)
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gregorio
Too Damn Old
Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 2,837
Loc: Classified
Last seen: 12 days, 7 hours
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Re: Throwing curveballs! [Re: DieCommie]
#5078328 - 12/18/05 01:57 PM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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I like nakers_junk_bag opinion of my post more better.
I just think that individual judges shouldn't have their hands tied by mandatory sentencing guidelines that are imposed by legislatures.
That is why we have judges for in the first place after all, to impose sentences.
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: Throwing curveballs! [Re: sirreal]
#5078388 - 12/18/05 02:13 PM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
sirreal said:
Quote:
luvdemshrooms said:
Don't do the crime.....
OF course that would be the best thing. But the fact that these people are stupid does not give us the right to be so cruel, does it? The punishment should fit the crime. If not, why not just execute them.
Well, if the crime involves others, I have no problem with more executions. And no problem with "Three Strikes" as well.
If the "crime" involves only yourself, then it shouldn't be a crime.
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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: Throwing curveballs! [Re: GazzBut]
#5078394 - 12/18/05 02:15 PM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
GazzBut said:
Quote:
Don't do the crime.....
Surely the punishment should fit the crime.
Seems to me, it does.
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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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