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OfflineAncalagon
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Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 1,364
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Iraq abuse as bad now as under Saddam
    #4985634 - 11/27/05 06:54 AM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Iraq abuse as bad now as under Saddam -former PM

LONDON, England -- Human rights abuses in Iraq are as bad as they were under Saddam Hussein if not worse, former Prime Minister Ayad Allawi has said. "People are doing the same as (in) Saddam's time and worse," Allawi said in an interview published in Britain on Sunday.

"It is an appropriate comparison," Allawi told The Observer newspaper. "People are remembering the days of Saddam. These were the precise reasons that we fought Saddam and now we are seeing the same things."

Allawi's comments come as Hussein's trial is set to resume Monday in Baghdad. Hussein's lawyers are expected to seek another delay in the proceedings. (Full story)

The remarks also follow the discovery of an Iraqi government facility holding 170 prisoners, including some showing signs of torture. (Full story)

"We are hearing about secret police, secret bunkers where people are being interrogated," said Allawi, who was Iraq's first prime minister of the post-Saddam Hussein era.

Allawi, a secular Shiite and former Baathist, is standing in parliamentary elections scheduled for December 15. He failed to win January's election, which brought current Prime Minister Ibrahim Jaafari, an Islamist Shiite, to power.

"A lot of Iraqis are being tortured or killed in the course of interrogations," Allawi said. "We are even witnessing Sharia courts based on Islamic law that are trying people and executing them.

"The Ministry of the Interior is at the heart of the matter," Allawi said. "I am not blaming the minister himself, but the rank and file are behind the secret dungeons and some of the executions that are taking place."

Allawi warned that if no action was taken, "the disease infecting (the ministry) will become contagious and spread to all ministries and structures of Iraq's government."

In a news conference this month, Interior Minister Bayan Jabr defended the prison facility, saying it held "the most criminal terrorists" and that "nobody was beheaded or killed."


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?When Alexander the Great visted the philosopher Diogenes and asked whether he could do anything for him, Diogenes is said to have replied: 'Yes, stand a little less between me and the sun.' It is what every citizen is entitled to ask of his government.?
-Henry Hazlitt in 'Economics in One Lesson'

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OfflineUnagipie
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Registered: 08/11/05
Posts: 6,300
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Re: Iraq abuse as bad now as under Saddam [Re: Ancalagon]
    #4985656 - 11/27/05 07:26 AM (18 years, 4 months ago)

The difference is, instead of one man doing it, it's an army of bandits


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Don't fight it. Just let the illuminados take over your mind. You be at bliss soon.

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Invisiblecateyes
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Registered: 12/16/03
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Re: Iraq abuse as bad now as under Saddam [Re: Unagipie]
    #4985701 - 11/27/05 08:00 AM (18 years, 4 months ago)

ayad allawi continues to lead his iraqi national accord's party. wasn't it his party that provided britains secret service, our house/senate and us intelligence services information of wmd's and iraq's connection to al-qaeda? remember ahmad chalabi? yup, allawi's chum... it will be interesting to watch the stuggle for power within iraq...

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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
Re: Iraq abuse as bad now as under Saddam [Re: Ancalagon]
    #4985732 - 11/27/05 08:25 AM (18 years, 4 months ago)

This guy may be playing politics...so who knows.

But, I would not be surprised if his allegations were true. After all, how can you expect a nation that has known nothing but violence for decades to all of a sudden adopt nice, warm, and fluffy civil right's principles?

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Offlinebarfightlard
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Re: Iraq abuse as bad now as under Saddam [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #4985744 - 11/27/05 08:37 AM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

RandalFlagg said:
This guy may be playing politics...so who knows.

But, I would not be surprised if his allegations were true. After all, how can you expect a nation that has known nothing but violence for decades to all of a sudden adopt nice, warm, and fluffy civil right's principles?




Kind of hard to adopt those warm and fluffy rights when they come packaged in massive bombings and as an invasion to many.


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"What business is it of yours what I do, read, buy, see, say, think, who I fuck, what I take into my body - as long as I do not harm another human being on this planet?" - Bill Hicks

Edited by bellylard (11/27/05 08:47 AM)

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InvisibleLos_Pepes
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Registered: 06/26/05
Posts: 731
Re: Iraq abuse as bad now as under Saddam [Re: barfightlard]
    #4986952 - 11/27/05 04:33 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

We need to make all muslims give up Islam or send them to death camps.

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OfflineLearyfanS
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Re: Iraq abuse as bad now as under Saddam [Re: Ancalagon]
    #4987127 - 11/27/05 05:46 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Huh? Phred made it seem as though Iraq was paradise now.






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InvisibleAlex213
Stranger
Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 1,839
Re: Iraq abuse as bad now as under Saddam [Re: Learyfan]
    #4997911 - 11/30/05 10:16 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Huh? Phred made it seem as though Iraq was paradise now.


Well he certainly didn't mention human rights were as bad as they were under Saddam.

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OfflineDivided_Sky
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Registered: 11/02/03
Posts: 3,171
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Re: Iraq abuse as bad now as under Saddam [Re: Alex213]
    #4998376 - 11/30/05 12:36 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

The idea that Iraqis were better off with Saddam Hussein is absurd. Heinous things may be going on, but we still don't have mass graves and gassings of villages. Sounds kind of like hyperbole to me. I guess there are alot of Islamic people out there that are probobly being assholes, but I am tempted to think that Allawi is thinking politicaly. Obviously, he himself doesn't want Saddam back. Perhaps if you vote Allawi, then human rights will be better...If anybody is abusing human rights it is those oh so noble insurgents who need to blow up kids and behead people to feel like real men.


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1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..."
2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..."
3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."

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Offlinebarfightlard
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Re: Iraq abuse as bad now as under Saddam [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #4998552 - 11/30/05 01:28 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Those things happened during a short period of tme in history, with your governments support btw.

Now their country is in bloody choas, once again something aweful happens because of your government.


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"What business is it of yours what I do, read, buy, see, say, think, who I fuck, what I take into my body - as long as I do not harm another human being on this planet?" - Bill Hicks

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OfflineBhairabas
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Registered: 07/21/03
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Loc: Toronto Canada
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Re: Iraq abuse as bad now as under Saddam [Re: barfightlard]
    #5007185 - 12/02/05 03:38 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

There was a lecture I listned to given by a independent journalist who claims he witnessed US and Iraqi soldiers invading the Iraqi peace coalitions head querters.. They ended up killing a few people and throwing the rest in jail.. No crimes were commited.. He also talked about how US troops had gone into some neighborhoods and litteraly kidnapped all the men who were jailed with out cause for months and tortured.. And they wonder why Iraqis hate them now..
It almost seems rediculous to me that noone sees the similarities to Nicaragua or El Salvadore.. Iraqi death squads are out taking care of anyone that disagrees with americas plans.. It's nothing new..

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Invisiblelooner2
ABBA fan

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 3,849
Re: Iraq abuse as bad now as under Saddam [Re: Ancalagon]
    #5007274 - 12/02/05 04:02 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

The Iraqi people may simply not be able to handle democracy. What a shame. Maybe we should pull our troops back into the desert, and let them figure out what kind of government they will run. Let the streets run with blood and we can only hope a system of government emerges that will not actively promote terrorism and is free from islamofacism influence. If not, its time for another war. We can finally use our military for what it is meant to do. We can keep destroying every government until the Iraqis get it right, if not, maybe there will be no more Iraqi's. One thing is clear and for sure, we can never allow a terrorism sponsored government that harbors terrorists.


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I am in love with Acidic_Sloth


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OfflinePrajna
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Registered: 10/08/05
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Re: Iraq abuse as bad now as under Saddam [Re: Los_Pepes]
    #5008276 - 12/02/05 08:36 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Los_Pepes said:
We need to make all muslims give up Islam or send them to death camps.




Oh your government is already working on the death camp thing man, it's called Guantanamo bay. Have faith in your hatred Los_pepes, they are working as hard as they can to get these untried innocent people dead as fast as they can.

You know how it is with all that silly moral outrage out there in the world, these things just need to be hidden better, before we fire up the furnaces...

Maybe if we cause another one of those terrorist attacks?...

Yeah, that's it!
While the peace-nicks are watching a city burn we'll kill em' all!

Then we can just say that we killed them all because they all had WMD's!

Siege Heil buddy! Whoop, Whoop!!!


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Registered: 01/01/05
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Re: Iraq abuse as bad now as under Saddam [Re: Prajna]
    #5008285 - 12/02/05 08:39 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Prajna said:
Oh your government is already working on the death camp thing man, it's called Guantanamo bay. Have faith in your hatred Los_pepes, they are working as hard as they can to get these untried innocent people dead as fast as they can.



Not that I support what's going on in Gitmo, but that assertion is just plain ridiculous.


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OfflinePrajna
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Re: Iraq abuse as bad now as under Saddam [Re: looner2]
    #5008375 - 12/02/05 09:01 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

looner2 said:
The Iraqi people may simply not be able to handle democracy. What a shame. Maybe we should pull our troops back into the desert, and let them figure out what kind of government they will run. Let the streets run with blood and we can only hope a system of government emerges that will not actively promote terrorism and is free from islamofacism influence. If not, its time for another war. We can finally use our military for what it is meant to do. We can keep destroying every government until the Iraqis get it right, if not, maybe there will be no more Iraqi's. One thing is clear and for sure, we can never allow a terrorism sponsored government that harbors terrorists.




Ummm....

You are aware that it was you're country who put Saddam there in the first place, right?

Then you guys sat back while he committed his atrocities, and did NOTHING...at least until he stopped playing ball, and threatened you with an oil embargo

It was also YOUR country who funded and armed Al-queda, Osama, AND the Taliban, to fight the Russian incursion into Afghanistan.

You also sat back and watched as the Taliban took that country over, repressed it's people and committed many atrocities themselves...

Seems to me that you have a bad track record of caring about a repressed people as much as you do about caring about your own interests.

I wish they would have found WMD's in Iraq so that I wouldn't need to hear this silliness about "freeing a repressed people" anymore...

Keep in mind that "freeing the Iraqi people" WAS Bushes THIRD excuse for invading this country, after no one would buy his sad attempts to explain himself in other ways...


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Edited by Prajna (12/02/05 09:19 PM)

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OfflinePrajna
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Re: Iraq abuse as bad now as under Saddam [Re: Silversoul]
    #5008382 - 12/02/05 09:04 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Paradigm said:
Quote:

Prajna said:
Oh your government is already working on the death camp thing man, it's called Guantanamo bay. Have faith in your hatred Los_pepes, they are working as hard as they can to get these untried innocent people dead as fast as they can.



Not that I support what's going on in Gitmo, but that assertion is just plain ridiculous.




It was a joke paradigm...I was trying to be sarcastic...

I OBVIOUSLY don't really think that way...


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Edited by Prajna (12/02/05 09:04 PM)

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Offlinezenman223
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Re: Iraq abuse as bad now as under Saddam [Re: Silversoul]
    #5008396 - 12/02/05 09:09 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

the abuse in Iraq, thats as bad as it was w/ Saddam is supposedly from the Iraq's! i think this is a political tactic by ____said person. plus these Iraq guards and soldiers, thats all they know is torture tactics and brutality, for the past how many years. thats what they think government is so thats why they act the way they act. it will take time (years) for the Iraqi race to accept and embrace democracy b/c no living (native) person understands what democracy is! or knows what it is! but so what if the Americans torture or beat suspected terrorists b/c thats what there are SUSPECTED terrorists, and i know they over step their bounds with that shit but if its Muhammad alzweki and the (my) military on the ground who knows and has credible info. says he's a terrorist. TORTURE the shit out of him. (if he has info.) i know its not p.c. but HEY! this is AMERICA we are the best of the best! we freed the Iraq's and THEY are thankful 4 it. its the insurgient terrorists from Syria,Afghan,Lebanon etc. plus Iraqis extremist killing mostly Iraqi people, Innocent people , they deserve to die and be tortured first


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"I think I am, therefore I become."
"In the beginning of a change the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." - Mark Twain 

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Invisiblelooner2
ABBA fan

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 3,849
Re: Iraq abuse as bad now as under Saddam [Re: Prajna]
    #5008527 - 12/02/05 10:07 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Prajna said:
Ummm....

You are aware that it was you're country who put Saddam there in the first place, right?




Wrong. Source? I didn't even mention Saddam anyway. Focus please.

Quote:

Prajna said:
Then you guys sat back while he committed his atrocities, and did NOTHING




So?

Quote:

Prajna said:
It was also YOUR country who funded and armed Al-queda, Osama, AND the Taliban, to fight the Russian incursion into Afghanistan.




So? Now we are talking about Afghanistan. Ok. I'm trying to follow.

Quote:

Prajna said:
You also sat back and watched as the Taliban took that country over, repressed it's people and committed many atrocities themselves...




Irrelevant to anything I said. If you are going to go into a nonsensical rant, don't quote me.


Quote:

Prajna said:
Seems to me that you have a bad track record of caring about a repressed people as much as you do about caring about your own interests.




Exactly. I don't care about repressed people. The interests of my own people is my only worry. However, if improving the life of repressed people, thereby giving them a chance at freedom and democracy will also serve the interests of the U.S, then it is in our interest.


Quote:

Prajna said:
I wish they would have found WMD's in Iraq so that I wouldn't need to hear this silliness about "freeing a repressed people" anymore...




It wouldn't change the fact that giving the Iraqi a chance at freedom is part of the mission.

Quote:

Prajna said:
Keep in mind that "freeing the Iraqi people" WAS Bushes THIRD excuse for invading this country, after no one would buy his sad attempts to explain himself in other ways...




He doesn't need to give an excuse, and neither do any Americans. We decided it was in our best interest, and we acted. Nevermind the fact that toppling a tyrannical dictor is always morally acceptable.


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I am in love with Acidic_Sloth


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OfflinePrajna
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Re: Iraq abuse as bad now as under Saddam [Re: looner2]
    #5008651 - 12/02/05 10:59 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Sorry man, your right, in your post I thought you were implying that you were for spreading democracy in Iraq as a MORAL goal, I thought you were taking the "freeing an oppressed people" stand.

Your honesty is refreshing though, it's nice to hear the truth for a change...

"He doesn't need to give an excuse, and neither do any Americans. We decided it was in our best interest, and we acted."

"Exactly. I don't care about repressed people. The interests of my own people is my only worry."

God I just wish Bush would just come out and say these things too...


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Invisiblelooner2
ABBA fan

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 3,849
Re: Iraq abuse as bad now as under Saddam [Re: Prajna]
    #5008676 - 12/02/05 11:11 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Me too!


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I am in love with Acidic_Sloth


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