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Offlineexclusive58
illegal alien

Registered: 04/16/04
Posts: 2,146
Last seen: 6 years, 11 days
Our Friend Saddam
    #4950486 - 11/18/05 04:59 AM (18 years, 4 months ago)

...or "40 years of western support for the Ba'athists"

...or "Saddam Hussein, the trial the world will never see"

(2003)

What if Saddam Hussein were to have a genuinely fair trial? That is the central question of a hard-hitting documentary that aired on french TV a few weeks ago. The documentary has been ordered by different channels all over the world, including Australia, Cannada and Japan. But it is something you will never see in the USA.

This is an exclusive translation of an article published in "the Diplomatic World" which summarizes the documentary. I started translating the whole thing until I realized it had already been translated. :smirk:






Iraq, Crimes and Collusions

Iraq's provisional authority is determined to put Saddam Hussein
on trial for war crimes, crimes against humanity and genocide.
But the United States has curtailed the scope of the court and
its judges. The dictator's foreign accomplices will be immune
from prosecution and nothing will be said about those western
governments who allowed the Ba'athist regime to crush all
opposition.


IN a cafe in Baghdad's old city, you get a serious response
at first to questions about the forthcoming trial of Saddam
Hussein. Then, after a few remarks about his crimes, or
acknowledgments that there is a need for a trial, people just
smile and look a way, as if they expect nothing useful to
come of it. All are convinced that the tribunal before which
Saddam Hussein will appear is entirely controlled by the
United States and that no foreigners will be called to
account.

"If this trial really goes ahead, which I doubt," says a
teacher, "it won't tackle Saddam's relations with foreign
countries."
An engineer says: "There are too many things that
the West doesn't want anyone to know."


The US Department of State played a key role in setting up
the tribunal. In advance it consulted a US legal expert,
Charif Bassiouni, who said: "All efforts are being made to
have a tribunal whose judiciary is not independent but
controlled, and by controlled I mean that the political
manipulators of the tribunal have to make sure the US and
other western powers are not brought in cause. This makes it
look like victor's vengeance: it makes it seem targeted,
selected, unfair. It's a subterfuge."


US and Iraqi officials have decided that the special tribunal
that will pass judgment on Saddam Hussein will not be able to
accuse any foreigner of complicity. Yet the history of the
past 40 years is full of instances where non-Iraqis,
including five US presidents, at least three French
presidents, several British prime ministers and many western
businessmen, have been aware of and even implicated in the
crimes of the Ba'athist regime.

US support for mass killings in Iraq began as early as the
presidency of John Kennedy. In 1963, alarmed by the sight of
President Abdel-Karim Qassem cosying up to Moscow and
threatening to nationalise Iraq's oil industry, the US
decided to act. In February 1963 it supported a coup by the
fiercely anti-communist Ba'ath party. James Akins, a
political adviser at the Baghdad embassy just after the coup
and later ambassador to Saudi Arabia, confirmed: "The
revolution was of course supported by the US in money and in
some equipment as well. I don't think equipment was terribly
important, but money was to the Ba'ath party leaders who took
over in the revolution. It wasn't talked about openly, that
we were behind it. But an awful lot of people knew."


After executing Qassem, the Ba'athists killed and tortured
thousands of communists and leftwing sympathisers: doctors,
magistrates, workers. One of those responsible for these
massacres was Abdallah Hatef, now the headmaster of a primary
school in Baghdad. He says: "We had one simple order:
exterminate the communists. The young Saddam Hussein needed
no encouragement. He was in charge of torturing workers by
pumping water into their bodies, breaking their bones and
electrocuting them."
The US has always denied involvement,
but several leaders of the coup have revealed that the CIA
played an active part, especially by supplying lists of
communists. In 2003 a former US diplomatic official admitted,
anonymously:"We were glad to be rid of them. You ask that
they get a fair trial? You have to be kidding. This was
serious business."
(1).

In June 1963 US and Ba'athist officials met in Baghdad. The
minutes of this meeting (2), which have only recently come to
light, confirm a shared desire to contain communism
throughout the region. But the "enemy" also included Kurds
who resisted the Ba'athists in the north of the country.
During this period Subhi Abdelhamid was in command of Iraqi
army operations against the Kurds (3). In Baghdad recently he
confirmed that he negotiated with the US attaché for the
delivery of 5,000 bombs intended to crush resistance. He also
said: "The Americans gave Iraq 1,000 napalm bombs for use
against Kurdish villages."
Kurds who survived say the napalm
burned their livestock and villages. They assumed at the time
that it had been supplied by the Soviet Union.

1980 - WAR AGAINST IRAN

At his trial Saddam Hussein will be accused of having
launched in September 1980 a war against Iran that cost a
million lives. But several witnesses insist that the US
encouraged him to start this conflict. The West, which felt
threatened by Ayatollah Khomeini's Islamic revolution, had
everything to gain from an attack. A top-secret US government
document from 1984 reveals that "President Carter gave the
Iraqis a green light to launch the war against Iran"
(4).

Did the US also contribute to the battle plan? Abolhassan
Bani-Sadr, then Iran's prime minister, insists that this is
what happened. He claims that Iranian secret services
acquired a copy of this plan which, according to his sources,
had been drawn up by the Iraqis and Americans in a Paris
hotel. "I'll tell you why I know it's genuine: because the
Iraqis conducted the war exactly according to this battle
plan. It was only because we had a copy that we were able to
withstand their attacks"
(5).

Although Washington was officially neutral in the Iran-Iraq
war, a US commission of inquiry has revealed that the White
House and the CIA secretly supplied weapons, including
fragmentation bombs, to Saddam Hussein. US satellite
intelligence allowed Iranian troops to be more effectively
targeted, even though Washington was aware that Iraqi units were using
chemical weapons. According to Rick Francona, then a US 
military intelligence officer, the lists of bombing targets
he gave Iraqis in 1988 secured Iraq's final victory over
Iran.




When shown the video clip of this meeting, Rumself mused, ?Where did you get this video? ? Isn't that interesting? There I am..


1988 - THE HALABJA MASSACRE

Saddam Hussein will be held accountable for the crime of
gassing 5,000 civilians, whom he accused of having
collaborated with the Iranians, in the Kurdish village of
Halabja in 1988. The US and France did everything in their
power at the time to prevent him being condemned for this.
President Ronald Reagan vetoed a bill intended to block US
trade with Iraq, and his administration telexed embassies
around the world with instructions to claim that the Iranians
were responsible.

France "forgot" to condemn this atrocity. Although prime minister Michel
Rocard's (6) government issued a communiqué in the immediate
aftermath denouncing the chemical attacks "wherever they came
from", it failed to mention the Iraqi president. Roland
Dumas, then foreign minister, explains: "It's fair to say
that the West closed its eyes to some degree but that was
because we regarded Iraq as essential to the balance of power
in the region."
Jean-Pierre Chevènement, then defence
minister, told us: "You have to put the Halabja affair in
context and take account of the vital importance of the
region to world oil supplies: whoever controls the Middle
East controls the financial balance of the entire planet.
There is never a clear-cut choice between good and evil;
there is merely a choice between horror and terror."


It was not just a question of oil: France was also Iraq's
main supplier of military equipment. By 1981 Pierre Marion,
head of the external security service (Direction générale de
la sécurité exterieure) was concerned about the military
support offered to Saddam by the French president, Fran?ois
Mitterrand. He now maintains this support was encouraged by
arms dealers, who would benefit from the continuation of the
Iran-Iraq war.
IN 1992 a small European legal pressure group, Juristes
contre la raison d'Etat, took legal action against French
arms companies Dassault, Thomson and Aérospatiale. Courts in
Paris concluded that, by selling weapons to a country that
deployed them against civilians, the companies had
potentially exposed themselves to legal consequences.

It is no longer a secret that only the support of western
companies and governments allowed Saddam to attack neighbours
and commit crimes. Germany supplied poison gas; France and
the US equipped factories for its manufacture in Iraq. The
complete list of companies involved has still not been made
public. In December 2002 the CIA seized in the middle of the
night a 12,000-page report on the arming of Saddam Hussein
drawn up for the United Nations. When they handed it back 48
hours later, 100 pages had been removed.

A government leak enabled Gary Milhollin, a US arms control
expert, to recover the missing pages. We have been able to
read them. They claim that the Pasteur Institute sold
biological materials to Iraq; and that the US firm Bechtel,
which has helped finance the electoral campaigns of members
of the Bush family, supplied Iraq with a chemical factory.
Other documents that may implicate western companies are
still hidden in UN headquarters in New York, along with the
reports of UN inspectors in Iraq. Asked whether he had talked
to UN officials, Milhollin replied: "It's confidential. Right
now, the UN is not busy inspecting anything in Iraq. My
impression is that this is just a large stack of information
the UN is sitting on for no good reason - unless it wants to
protect the companies."


1990 - INVASION OF KUWAIT

Further accusations against Saddam will concern the invasion
of Kuwait in August 1990, which overnight transformed the
former ally into a tyrant. President George Bush Snr
described him as "a new Hitler". Yet several Iraqis and
Americans involved in the crisis accuse Bush of having failed
to react in time to prevent it. Ruined by the Iran war, Iraq
had sought the help of its neighbours in reconstructing its
economy. But when Saddam asked Kuwait to defer Iraq's debts,
the tiny emirate, with US support, inexplicably refused to
negotiate. Kuwait had suddenly increased its oil production,
bringing down prices and sabotaging the recovery of the Iraqi
economy. Saddam thought he detected a plot to destroy Iraq.
According to Eric Rouleau, a former French diplomat and a
Middle East specialist: "For Saddam Hussein it was a question
of life and death. When threats got him nowhere, he sent his
troops to the Kuwaiti frontier."


When American spy satellites detected tank movements, US
advisers recommended that the White House send a strong,
clear warning to the Iraqi president (7). But Bush Snr saw
Saddam primarily as a major trading partner and chose to
believe other advisers, who thought they detected a bluff.
The US never issued any warning - it did the opposite. Eight
days before the invasion of Kuwait, Saddam summoned the US
ambassador, April Glaspie, to Baghdad. When he announced that
Kuwait's attitude amounted to a declaration of war, she
replied: "We have no opinion on Arab-Arab conflicts like your
border disagreement with Kuwait".




Two days later,
in Washington, her superior, Assistant Secretary of State John
Kelly, publicly repeated that. Asked what the US would do if
Iraq attacked Kuwait, he replied: "We have no defence treaty
relationship with any Gulf country."


A few weeks later Congressman Tom Lantos criticised US
policy: "This obsequious treatment of Saddam by a variety of
high-ranking officials encouraged him to take this action and
there is no way that we can escape this responsibility."


After the invasion it became clear that the US intended to
use force. A senior Ba'ath official, Abdel Majid Rafai, told
us that from the fifth day of the invasion Saddam advised
party members that preparations were under way for a
withdrawal from Kuwait. But all attempts at negotiation ended
in stalemate because of tactical mistakes by Saddam and the
immovable position adopted by US officials. James Akins
explains: "Once George Bush had begun to mobilise his troops,
there was no way that he and his aides were going to let the Iraqi
dictator escape. They were anxious to have a war that would
be rapid and triumphal"
(9).

Operation Desert Storm

The real reasons behind the war were recalled in a recent
interview by then Secretary of State, James Baker: "The
policy of protecting secure access to the energy reserves in
the Persian Gulf was adopted because without that access, at
least in those days, the US economy would be adversely
impacted. And if the economy is impacted, people lose jobs,
and when people lose jobs they become disaffected and your
political support diminishes. And that's what that was about.
And I will tell you to this day that that was one of the
reasons we fought that war. Even if a lot of people jumped on
that statement to say, 'Oh well, you fight a war on
principles because Saddam Hussein is a bad guy, because it's
unprovoked aggression against a small neighbour, or because
he's developing weapons of mass destruction'. But there was
another reason we fought that war, and that was because if we
let him dominate access to the energy reserves in the Persian
Gulf it would have adversely affected the economy in the US.
Still true today"
(10).

1991 - THE SHIA MASSACRE

In 1991, after Operation Desert Storm, Saddam Hussein crushed
a Shia revolt at the cost of tens, even hundreds of thousands
of lives. This is the most serious crime of which he is
accused, the one most commonly cited by President George Bush
Jnr as a reminder of Saddam's cruelty. But the reality is
that the US and its allies were accomplices to a slaughter
that happened before their eyes.

President Bush Snr called on Iraqis to rise up on 15 February
1991: "There is another way for the bloodshed to stop and
that is for the Iraqi military and the Iraqi people to take
matters into their own hands to force Saddam Hussein the
dictator to step aside."
That there should be no doubt, he
had his message broadcast across Iraq on the Voice of America
and via several clandestine CIA stations, and distributed on
leaflets dropped by US planes. Believing that the regime was
on the brink of collapse after defeat in Kuwait, the Shia
population rose up. The revolt spread, drawing in soldiers
from Saddam's army. The northern Kurdish population followed.

This was the start of a tragedy. Bush ordered the premature
cessation of hostilities in Kuwait, allowing most of Iraq's
elite units to escape destruction. When General Norman
Schwartzkopf dictated peace terms to Saddam's defeated
generals, he let them continue to use their combat
helicopters. Iraqi generals claimed they needed them to
transport food supplies and officers. They used them to crush
the rebellion.

The US and its allies, including the French, did nothing.
They refused even to meet the leaders of the rebellion, who
were begging for support. The truth is that Bush and his
advisers did not want the revolt to succeed. They hoped that
Saddam's military defeat would persuade his generals to
replace him with another strongman more susceptible to reason
and western influence. It had never occurred to them that
their call for a rising would inspire so explosive a
response. The last thing they wanted was an uncontrollable
popular revolt fragmenting Iraq along ethnic and religious
lines, spreading instability throughout the region and
increasing Iranian influence.

While the revolt raged, James Baker explained: "We are not in
the process of assisting or giving arms to these groups that
are in uprising against the current government. We don't want
to see a power vacuum develop in Iraq. We want to see the
territorial integrity of Iraq preserved. So do all the other
coalition partners."
Roland Dumas now acknowledges that this
was true: "We should never have tolerated the extraordinary
brutality that Saddam used to subjugate the Iraqi people. But
I suppose you'd call it a question of realpolitik."
And
Maurice Schmidt, then the French chief of staff, admits: "At
the time we preferred a tyrant to having clerics in power."

So the allies stood aside while Saddam's helicopters and
tanks annihilated the rebels.

In Baghdad we talked to survivors of the carnage. They
described how US troops stationed in southern Iraq refused to
give them arms and provisions. Their accusation is confirmed
by Rocky Gonzales, who served with US special forces in
southern Iraq in March 1991. "People started showing up at
our perimeter with chemical burns - we were guessing mustard
gas - blisters, burns on their faces, on their hands, places
where the skin was exposed. Some who were armed wanted us to
give them weapons and ammunition so they could fight. We were
under orders not to assist or to aid in any way, so we could
not. And I said, 'President Bush said the war is over'."
But
the Americans were not just spectators. There were cases US
soldiers helped Iraqi troops to crush the revolt. Surviving
rebels describe how US soldiers prevented them from reaching
Baghdad to topple Saddam. One, who is not alone, maintains:
"An American soldier threatened to kill us if we didn't turn
back."
These witnesses are supported by General Najib
al-Salhi, charged by Saddam with repressing the insurrection
in the Basra region: "At their roadblocks, the Americans
disarmed insurgents before they could attack us. At Safwan I
even saw them prevent the rebels from reaching our lines."

The US destroyed significant stocks of weapons abandoned by
the retreating Iraqi army. "If we had been able to get our
hands on those weapons,"
says a former rebel, "the course of
history would have been different, because this happened at a
point when Saddam was defenceless."


1990-2003 - THE DEADLY EMBARGO

Of all the killings in Iraq, the most deadly was not the work
of Saddam Hussein, but of the UN Security Council. The
sanctions imposed upon Iraq after the invasion of Kuwait
forbade all trade. According to UN figures, these are thought
to have caused the deaths of between 500,000 and 1 million
children over a period of 12 years.

The Irish humanitarian coordinator for the UN in Iraq, Denis
Halliday, resigned in 1998 rather than continue to apply the
sanctions programme, which he described as genocide. He
maintains that the UN sanctions committee destroyed Iraq's
health system by preventing the import of cleaning equipment
and vital medicines, always on the same grounds: that these
could be used to manufacture weapons of mass destruction.

After 1991 sanctions could have been lifted. But the UN
decided to maintain them and announced a new objective: to
pressure Saddam to abandon WMD. These measures mainly
affected ordinary Iraqis, particularly children. In 1995 a
journalist asked the US ambassador to the UN, Madeleine
Albright, if maintaining the sanctions was worth the deaths
of 500,000 children. Her reply was enlightening: "I think
this is a very hard choice, but the price - we think the
price is worth it."


In retrospect, it is clear that the real target of sanctions
was not Iraq's weapons but Saddam Hussein (11). Halliday
says: "The theory goes that if you hurt the people of Iraq,
and kill the children particularly, they'll rise up with
anger and overthrow his tyrant."
The US tried to put this
theory into effect for 12 years. In 1991 US planes
systematically bombed Iraq's water system, its sewers and
purification plants, and power stations. Over the next decade
Iraqis had to live without clean drinking water. Halliday
recalls: "People were drinking from the Tigris and Euphrates,
so there were outbreaks of typhoid and water-borne diseases.
It was extraordinary and devastating."
Was the US aware that
it was causing thousands of deaths? A secret Pentagon
document from 1991 confirms unambiguously that it was. This
study, Iraq Water Treatment Vulnerabilities (12), estimated
that the destruction of the supply would cause wholesale
death and epidemics. Throughout the period Britain and the US
dominated the sanctions committee. For 12 years they used the
embargo to prevent importation of spare parts that might
allow the water system to be repaired. But as Halliday points
out, the Iraqi people "didn't blame Saddam Hussein, they
blamed the US and the UN for these sanctions and the pain and
anguish that sanctions brought to their lives."


US politicians gradually realized that sanctions, far from
toppling Saddam, were ineffectual and were killing thousands
of Iraqis. Despite that, they continued to apply them because
- as Thomas Pickering, the US representative who defended
sanctions before the UN, has admitted - "there was no
alternative programme to do it better".


Sanctions finally ended in April 2003, when Saddam Hussein
was ousted. Eighteen months later the water supply and
sewerage systems and the hospital infrastructure have not
been repaired. Babies, sick or dying from lack of potable
water, continue to fill hospitals throughout Iraq.
________________________________________________________

(1) Quoted by US journalist Richard Sale, UPI press agency.

(2) Muhammad Sabah was principal private secretary to the
Iraqi prime minister Tahar Yahia. Shortly before his death,
he entrusted this document to an Iraqi officer who concealed
it for years and recently passed it to Iraqi researcher
Abdelkhadi Tamimi.

(3) Subhi Abdelhamid had been interior and foreign minister
for the Nasserist government that threw out the Ba'athists
nine months later. The Ba'athists seized power again in 1968.

(4) This document, drawn up in 1984 by US Secretary of State
Alexander Haig and addressed to President Reagan, was
declassified in 1992. See Saddam's 'Green Light'.

(5) Several former senior US diplomatic officials have
admitted to Richard Sale that the US contributed to the
battle plan.

(6) Socialist prime minister (1988-1991) during Fran?ois
Mitterrand's presidency.

(7) This information comes directly from the former Pentagon
official Pat Lang, who was an eyewitness.

(8) Information given to us in Baghdad by the Iraqi
translator at the meeting, al-Zubeidi.

(9) This was confirmed to us by Roland Dumas, who claims to
have listened in, on the evening of the invasion of
Kuwait, to a telephone conversation between Bush Snr and
Mitterrand, during which Bush announced that the US intended
to "go for" Saddam - proceed with the war whatever the
dictator might decide to do.

(10) From an interview with the journalist Jihan al-Tahri,
June 2003.

(11) The former US ambassador to the UN, Thomas Pickering,
now acknowledges this.

(12) Accessible online at [url=http://anonym.to/?[url=http://anonym.to/?http://www.gulflink.osd.mil/]http://www.gulflink.osd.mil/[/url]]http://www.gulflink.osd.mil/[/url]


--------------------

Edited by exclusive58 (12/31/06 06:14 AM)

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OfflineMcdoopy
Fungus Face
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/24/05
Posts: 3,296
Loc: Varrok Center
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
Re: Our Friend Saddam [Re: exclusive58]
    #4950506 - 11/18/05 05:23 AM (18 years, 4 months ago)

I didn't bother reading all that.

He should be put to death.

Better yet... tortured.

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Offlinelonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 8,978
Loc: South Texas
Last seen: 12 years, 11 months
Re: Our Friend Saddam [Re: Mcdoopy]
    #4950857 - 11/18/05 08:34 AM (18 years, 4 months ago)

They should have shot some Willie Peter in his hole the day they found him.



--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

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Offlinekilgore_trout
Stranger
Registered: 10/17/03
Posts: 1,607
Last seen: 15 years, 8 months
Re: Our Friend Saddam [Re: lonestar2004]
    #4950859 - 11/18/05 08:37 AM (18 years, 4 months ago)

sooooooooooooooooooo who wants to address the article?


--------------------
"I didnt fight a secret war in nicaragua so you could walk these streets of freedom bad-mouthing lady america in your damn mirrored sunglasses."

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InvisibleLos_Pepes
Stranger

Registered: 06/26/05
Posts: 731
Re: Our Friend Saddam [Re: kilgore_trout]
    #4952369 - 11/18/05 03:50 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Trying to shift the blame the way you America bashers do won't stand up in court.


http://projects.sipri.se/armstrade/Trnd_Ind_IRQ_Imps_73-02.pdf

Top three suppliers of arms to Saddam Hussein, 1973 - 2002

USSR: 57%
* France: 13%
* China: 12%

Then, in order of importance:

* Czechoslovakia: 7%
* Poland: 4%
* Brazil: 2%
* Egypt: 1%
* Romania: 1%
* Denmark: 1%
* Libya: 1%

USA's sales -- 1 percent. None provided before or after the Iraq-Iran war.

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OfflineMicrocosmatrix
Spiral staircasetechnician
Male

Registered: 10/20/05
Posts: 11,293
Loc: Ythan's house
Last seen: 17 years, 3 months
Re: Our Friend Saddam [Re: exclusive58]
    #4952611 - 11/18/05 05:15 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

hahaha he went from shaking hands with high-profile americans to sitting in a jail cell in his underwear


--------------------
:orly:


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OfflineWhiteBunny
How deep doesthe rabbit hole go?
 User Gallery

Registered: 07/29/05
Posts: 1,351
Loc: Earth
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Re: Our Friend Saddam [Re: Los_Pepes]
    #4952619 - 11/18/05 05:16 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

I think if he was tortured long enough he would spill his guts about weapons of massdestruction and end the debate between REPS ans DEMS.

WB


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Offlineexclusive58
illegal alien

Registered: 04/16/04
Posts: 2,146
Last seen: 6 years, 11 days
Re: Our Friend Saddam [Re: Mcdoopy]
    #4952776 - 11/18/05 06:02 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Mcdoopy said:
I didn't bother reading all that.

He should be put to death.





Okay, so you think he should be put to death because of the crimes he committed.

But why would you want to ignore the fact that he couldn't have committed all these crimes without Western support?

Supposing that what you really want is justice, then you'd also want Westen politicians and businessmen to be accused and put on trial.

But what do you really want? True justice or blind cold-blooded vengeance?


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Offlineexclusive58
illegal alien

Registered: 04/16/04
Posts: 2,146
Last seen: 6 years, 11 days
Re: Our Friend Saddam [Re: WhiteBunny]
    #4952792 - 11/18/05 06:05 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

WhiteBunny said:
I think if he was tortured long enough he would spill his guts about weapons of massdestruction and end the debate between REPS ans DEMS.

WB




Don't you know yet? One is able to say any fucking thing under torture...whatever pleases the torturer is what the torturer gets.

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Offlineexclusive58
illegal alien

Registered: 04/16/04
Posts: 2,146
Last seen: 6 years, 11 days
Re: Our Friend Saddam [Re: exclusive58]
    #4952822 - 11/18/05 06:12 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

IF you are going to respond to my post, could you please read the article first? It isn't that long, and it contains very important information that the american public will probably never get their hands on.


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
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Re: Our Friend Saddam [Re: exclusive58]
    #4952829 - 11/18/05 06:13 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Well, you know, if all your looking for from torture is a confession a la the Viet Cong, then yeah you can get anything. But if the torturee knows you want real info , and will follow up well then, he might just have a real incentive not to lie, n'est pas my French friend?


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OfflineCatalysis
EtherealEngineer

Registered: 04/23/02
Posts: 1,742
Last seen: 15 years, 8 months
Re: Our Friend Saddam [Re: exclusive58]
    #4952836 - 11/18/05 06:15 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

So you are essentially saying that the west is righting past wrongs? That doesn't sound too bad.

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OfflineMicrocosmatrix
Spiral staircasetechnician
Male

Registered: 10/20/05
Posts: 11,293
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Re: Our Friend Saddam [Re: Catalysis]
    #4953818 - 11/18/05 10:04 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

All the U.S. can do is add more wrongs. We never do what is right, we always do the greedy thing.


--------------------
:orly:


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Invisibleit stars saddam
Satan

Registered: 05/19/05
Posts: 15,571
Loc: Spahn Ranch
Re: Our Friend Saddam [Re: exclusive58]
    #4953963 - 11/18/05 10:36 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

I thought this thread was about me.  :blush:

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Offlineexclusive58
illegal alien

Registered: 04/16/04
Posts: 2,146
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Re: Our Friend Saddam [Re: kilgore_trout]
    #4954771 - 11/19/05 06:22 AM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

kilgore_trout said:
sooooooooooooooooooo who wants to address the article?



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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
Re: Our Friend Saddam [Re: exclusive58]
    #4954778 - 11/19/05 06:33 AM (18 years, 4 months ago)

soooooooooooo, who is actually going to read that long-ass article?

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OfflineMicrocosmatrix
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Registered: 10/20/05
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Re: Our Friend Saddam [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #4954893 - 11/19/05 07:57 AM (18 years, 4 months ago)

I read half of it, does that count? It's actually a pretty good article, I'll probably read the rest of it too after a short break.

I still haven't found anything in it that is information that "Americans can't get" or whatever it was he claimed though.


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InvisibleLos_Pepes
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Registered: 06/26/05
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Re: Our Friend Saddam [Re: Microcosmatrix]
    #4955077 - 11/19/05 09:03 AM (18 years, 4 months ago)


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OfflineMicrocosmatrix
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Re: Our Friend Saddam [Re: Los_Pepes]
    #4955091 - 11/19/05 09:08 AM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Oh yeah right, take those good ole boy clothes off him and have him wear the Darth Vader outfit that better suits who he is.

You're insulting farmers or something.

And by the way, I've been against Bush since I first heard of the bastard.


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Offlinekilgore_trout
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Registered: 10/17/03
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Last seen: 15 years, 8 months
Re: Our Friend Saddam [Re: Microcosmatrix]
    #4955108 - 11/19/05 09:13 AM (18 years, 4 months ago)

so is peppie sating hitler was a liberal? thats just plain dumb.


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"I didnt fight a secret war in nicaragua so you could walk these streets of freedom bad-mouthing lady america in your damn mirrored sunglasses."

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