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InvisibleVeritas
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Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
Flaming
    #4933693 - 11/14/05 06:28 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Sometimes, flamers are attempting to assert their authority, or establish a position of superiority. Occasionally, flamers wish to upset and offend other members of the forum, in which case they are trolls. Most often however, flames are angry or insulting messages transmitted by people who have strong feelings about a subject. Finally, some consider flaming to be a great way to let off steam, though the receiving party may be less than pleased.

Similarly, a normal, non-flame message may have elements of a flame ?it may be hostile, for example ? but it is not a flame if it is seriously intended to advance the discussion.





After the forum split, it was decided that the only rule for P&S would be "no flaming."

Do you think this limits discussions, or adds to them?  By the Wikipedia definition above, a flame is not only hostile/insulting, but is expressed without intent to advance the discussion.

Do you agree with this? 

What about posters who admit to immoral/unethical behaviors: have they forfeited their right to protection from personal attacks?

*This is carried over from dblaney's Work thread (sorry we took it so far off-topic, d!  :tongue:)

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Invisiblespud
I'm so fly.

Registered: 10/07/02
Posts: 44,410
Re: Flaming [Re: Veritas]
    #4933716 - 11/14/05 06:31 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Flames add nothing constructive nor beneficial to a debate and should therefor be avoided.

Do to the argumentative nature of P&S and the predictable nature of man, they are somewhat expected here and there.

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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Flaming [Re: Veritas]
    #4933727 - 11/14/05 06:33 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

If I posted something trying to prove that Blacks are significantly inferior to Whites, would it be flaming if someone called me a racist?

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Invisiblespud
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Re: Flaming [Re: Redstorm]
    #4933730 - 11/14/05 06:34 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

No.

By definition, you would be a racist.

It would be redundant though.

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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Flaming [Re: spud]
    #4933739 - 11/14/05 06:35 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

If someone receives abuses the welfare system by collecting when he is not injured or in extreme financial need, is it flaming to call someone a leech?

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Invisiblespud
I'm so fly.

Registered: 10/07/02
Posts: 44,410
Re: Flaming [Re: Redstorm]
    #4933749 - 11/14/05 06:36 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Analogies aren't as clear cut as definitive words, but IMO, no it wouldn't be flaming.

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Flaming [Re: Redstorm]
    #4933757 - 11/14/05 06:37 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Yup, it has a negative personal connotation. If that was the only word that described this behavior that would be one thing but I don't know of anyone who wouldn't take the word leech personally unless they were enlightened to some extent and you could say anything to them and they wouldn't care.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Flaming [Re: Icelander]
    #4933763 - 11/14/05 06:38 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Well, "racist" has some pretty negative baggage with it as well. Would calling someone that be a flame?

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Invisiblespud
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Registered: 10/07/02
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Re: Flaming [Re: Icelander]
    #4933770 - 11/14/05 06:40 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

A negative connotation is justified in a situation where someone abuses the welfare system, therefore it wouldn't be a flame but rather pointing out a fact.

If someone kicked a baby in the face and I called them "evil", I wouldn't be flaming.

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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Flaming [Re: spud]
    #4933785 - 11/14/05 06:42 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

According to some of the members here, it is a flame even if you are pointing out the truth, if the words you are usuing could possibly have an inflammatory effect.

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OfflineTheShroomHermit
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Re: Flaming [Re: Redstorm]
    #4933807 - 11/14/05 06:45 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

>If I posted something trying to prove that Blacks are significantly inferior to Whites, would it be flaming if someone called me a racist?
-Ad hominem attacks doesn't further an arguement, it weakens it. If you were seeking to prove that Blacks are significantly inferior to Whites, the only reason in pointing out that you are a racist would be to derail the topic.

Pursue the issue, not the person behind it. Otherwise, take it to OTD... imho.

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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Flaming [Re: Icelander]
    #4933813 - 11/14/05 06:46 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Yup, it has a negative personal connotation. If that was the only word that described this behavior that would be one thing but I don't know of anyone who wouldn't take the word leech personally unless they were enlightened to some extent and you could say anything to them and they wouldn't care.



"Parasite" would be equally fitting, but I'm sure you would consider that a flame. My question to you would be if you considered it a flame to call someone immature. I'm sure most people would take it personally, but I don't believe it constitutes flaming, as it describes their behavior, rather than simply calling them names. I would say the same is true of "leech" or "parasite," though of course it depends on the context.


--------------------

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Flaming [Re: Redstorm]
    #4933817 - 11/14/05 06:47 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

I think it well could be. If I called you a racist it would feel different than saying you are indulging in racism, or your behavior is racist. I guess it's all in the delivery and intent. Usually you can read the attitude as it bleeds through. If you're pissed at someone you say things in a different way then if your just debating without massive attachment.

Almost everybody flames from time to time and we almost all hate to get called on it. It's an ego thingy. I do it all the time. I got this ego thingy that gets in my way from time to time.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Flaming [Re: TheShroomHermit]
    #4933818 - 11/14/05 06:47 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

That still doesn't determine whether or not it would be considered "flaming". Ad-hominem attacks do not neccesarily equal flames.

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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Flaming [Re: Icelander]
    #4933840 - 11/14/05 06:50 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
I think it well could be. If I called you a racist it would feel different than saying you are indulging in racism, or your behavior is racist. I guess it's all in the delivery and intent. Usually you can read the attitude as it bleeds through. If you're pissed at someone you say things in a different way then if your just debating without massive attachment.

Almost everybody flames from time to time and we almost all hate to get called on it. It's an ego thingy. I do it all the time. I got this ego thingy that gets in my way from time to time.




What if I said his actions were "leech-like" or that he was "leeching from society"? Leeching is a verb that is often used to define human actions.

If saying my actions are racist is ok, I don't see why it wouldn't be ok to say his actions are leeching from society.

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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Flaming [Re: Icelander]
    #4933848 - 11/14/05 06:51 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
If I called you a racist it would feel different than saying you are indulging in racism, or your behavior is racist.



But that could very well dillute the meaning, and I'm very intent on conveying proper meaning. If someone believes that blacks are genetically inferior, they aren't merely "indulging" in racism. They are, in fact, racist, and it would be totally appropriate to point that out.


--------------------

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Flaming [Re: Redstorm]
    #4933876 - 11/14/05 06:56 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

What if I said his actions were "leech-like" or that he was "leeching from society"? Leeching is a verb that is often used to define human actions.




I got to tell you that this sounds different than saying someone is a leech. I don't think there would have been a problem if it had been presented like you stated it, and anyone saying that probably wouldn't have been so pissed off at him. Like Phred seemed to be.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Flaming [Re: Icelander]
    #4933889 - 11/14/05 06:58 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

What if I said his actions were "leech-like" or that he was "leeching from society"? Leeching is a verb that is often used to define human actions.




I got to tell you that this sounds different than saying someone is a leech. I don't think there would have been a problem if it had been presented like you stated it, and anyone saying that probably wouldn't have been so pissed off at him. Like Phred seemed to be.




In my opinion, it doesn't seem like much of a difference at all. I suppose it's all in the eyes of the beholder.

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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Flaming [Re: Icelander]
    #4933897 - 11/14/05 06:59 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
I got to tell you that this sounds different than saying someone is a leech. I don't think there would have been a problem if it had been presented like you stated it, and anyone saying that probably wouldn't have been so pissed off at him. Like Phred seemed to be.



I don't see why it's different to you. All of those words are decribing a behavior.


--------------------

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Flaming [Re: Silversoul]
    #4933906 - 11/14/05 07:00 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Paradigm said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
If I called you a racist it would feel different than saying you are indulging in racism, or your behavior is racist.



But that could very well dillute the meaning, and I'm very intent on conveying proper meaning. If someone believes that blacks are genetically inferior, they aren't merely "indulging" in racism. They are, in fact, racist, and it would be totally appropriate to point that out.




Well honesty I had trouble considering the term racist flaming. It's a pretty proper word and has not any slimy bloodsucking insectoid fear provoking connotations. So I think using racist is different then leech which has another meaning which most find derogatory.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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