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OfflineGliders
Oh, hello!

Registered: 08/29/05
Posts: 284
Last seen: 17 years, 2 months
Opportunity to represent Salvia to the news.... should I?
    #4906371 - 11/07/05 08:37 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

OK, so my local news has started the scare campaign regarding Salvia. You know the one-- "Think of the children! Something must be done IMMEDIATELY"! I saw this, responded with a well-written, yet obviously biased opinion regarding Salvia and wanting to keep it legal. Now the news wants to run a more balanced report, as they've done online research and have found many in the community who feel the same as I do.

Should I grant the interview, and would this truly be helping the cause? If so, what aspects of Salvia do I highlight-- its rich and ancient history, it's anti-depressant effects, or the plain and simple "stop legislating what I put in my body" angle? Any thoughts would be appreciated.


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OfflineLimpet_Chicken
Stranger
Registered: 10/30/05
Posts: 43
Loc: England
Last seen: 9 years, 6 months
Re: Opportunity to represent Salvia to the news.... should I? [Re: Gliders]
    #4906408 - 11/07/05 08:45 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Well the fact that it is anti-addictive would be good place to start, physically speaking it is more or less nontoxic, and as it is a kappa agonist, it has anti-reinforcing properties, most people who try it, don't want to do so again.

It has an immense history of traditional healing, and shamanic usage, and is in no way recreational, it is much more suited for purposes of spiritual use and self-healing.


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The light blinds

So behold darkness as our new light

In our darkness we can see

So with others blindness

We take flight.

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InvisibleMezcal
Registered: 08/11/05
Posts: 1,980
Re: Opportunity to represent Salvia to the news.... should I? [Re: Gliders]
    #4906437 - 11/07/05 08:50 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

There are native people in Mexico who have used the herb ritualistically for a very long time, perhaps letting people know it is considered a cultural sacrament will make them think twice before thinking of it as crack?

Encourage people to do their homework and try to find information about why it is bad- if they hear that people have died from it, encourage them to do literature searches. Many databases are available through the public internet and libraries. Tell them to the best of your knowledge if there are any documented cases of salvia toxicity, injuries, deaths, etc.

Most of all:

REITERATE FACTS ABOUT ALCOHOL AND TOBACCO. How many people die from these substances each year? How many young people's lives are ruined by them? How many diseases are caused by ingesting these drugs?



Hope these translate to good talking points :smile:

If you get the chance to utilize the private media, do it, but be careful. They will try to manipulate you!

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Offlinerecalcitrant
My Own God

Registered: 04/20/02
Posts: 2,927
Loc: Canada West
Last seen: 7 years, 10 months
Re: Opportunity to represent Salvia to the news.... should I? [Re: Gliders]
    #4906613 - 11/07/05 09:14 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

That's a really tough call.

I'd have to say don't do it.

The news doesn't care. You shouldn't care what the news says. Yes, there are lots or people who watch the news and care about what it says. Yes, there might even be some people whos opinions on the criminality of psychedelics can be swayed by a strong argument. But not everyone. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that any news story about salvia, even one showing it in a positive light, is going to bring attention to the fact that there are legal psychedelics out there.

Right now, there are way too many unreasonable people out there who think that using any sort of mind altering substances, other than the ones their government OK's, are fundamentally outside their realm of acceptable behaviour. I'm not sure why they trust the FDA, but they do. Maybe because it's easy and its safe. Maybe because they really have been thoroughly conditioned. It doesn't matter. What matters is that they hate drugs. And salvia is definatly a drug they hate.

Now I understand that the point, for you, of going on the news and talking about salvia is to raise awareness and encourage acceptance. That's a really good motive. But the world doesn't work like that. The liberal minded people with laissez-fair attitudes watching your interview will already agree with you. The conservative minded do-what-your-told attitudes watching are going to be offended by contrary opinions. They are going to dig in their heels and get bitter about the hippy and communist ideology that threatens their children.

I'm not saying that most people are fighting the war on drugs against us. But the ones that are fighting have so much power that their threat isn't worth the risk.

Do you really want to advertise yourself as someone with opinions contrary to current social policy?

I think it's really sad that I'm telling you not to go on TV and tell the truth. I think it's a terrible state of affairs when arguing your opinion in a public forum is so dangerous. Dangerous not only for yourself, but for everyone who cares about keeping salvia alive. It sucks that government spend so much money to eradicate life, liberty and the persuit of happyness. But that's how it is.

Maybe now that it is the dawning of the age of aquarius we'll have more people who are willing to speak up and share the kinds of knowledge and truths that have had to be hidden for so long because of persecution. I hope so. I would really like to see grassroots movements swing us free from all the crazy bullshit that just seems to get worse and worse. And that would probably start happening a lot more often if people weren't afraid of getting in front of a TV camera and sharing their knowledge; but it's just so crazy dangerous.


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We have to answer our own prayers

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OfflineGliders
Oh, hello!

Registered: 08/29/05
Posts: 284
Last seen: 17 years, 2 months
Re: Opportunity to represent Salvia to the news.... should I? [Re: Mezcal]
    #4906671 - 11/07/05 09:22 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Lympet and Snider, you've given very good points so far. I emphasised the dangerous aspects of alchohol in my email, and that's what got the response.

I want to portray all of these points. In the previous newscast they said long-term use was unknown. I want to point to the Mazatecs, ect., and I'd like to point to Siebert's work in anti-depressant qualities, etc.

I am aware of the media's manipulation ploys. I want my ducks in a row. I also want to make sure my own motives are straight, know what I mean?


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OfflineGliders
Oh, hello!

Registered: 08/29/05
Posts: 284
Last seen: 17 years, 2 months
Re: Opportunity to represent Salvia to the news.... should I? [Re: recalcitrant]
    #4906709 - 11/07/05 09:27 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Sadly, recalcitrant, your side of the issue is the one that has me hesitating in the first place. I think that if anyone can stand up and tell the truth without fear, it will be me. I'm of a respectable age with a steady job, and people who know me all grant me powers of "being different." But is it the right thing to do?

I wonder if people who are aware enough to know what I"m talking about would even be watching. There are many variables here, and only so much time to think on it. We'll see...

On the other hand, how can I just stand by and watch the beginning of the end (the media is buttering folks up right now), knowing that I did nothing?

Tough call for sure.


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Offlinerecalcitrant
My Own God

Registered: 04/20/02
Posts: 2,927
Loc: Canada West
Last seen: 7 years, 10 months
Re: Opportunity to represent Salvia to the news.... should I? [Re: Gliders]
    #4906799 - 11/07/05 09:38 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

I dont think I'm doing nothing.

I grow salvia. I give free cuttings away. I tell anyone who asks about it. I answer any question I can.

But I don't get up in front of the cops and the KKK and tell them how to run the country.

I live my life for me, as I would want everyone to do. Anyone who wants to know about salvia can get on the internet and find out.

Make no mistake, it will be made illegal. There are websites like erowid and there are books in libraries about growing weed. Information isn't illegal. When they make salvia illegal, some people will get rid of their plants for fear of arrest, but for the people growing up and just finding out about mind expansion, etc., it will just be one more name on a list to invoke their great interest. A list from an authority that has proven itself hypocritical.


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We have to answer our own prayers

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InvisibleKoala Koolio
TTAGGGTTAGGGTTAGGGTTAGGG

Registered: 01/07/04
Posts: 7,752
Re: Opportunity to represent Salvia to the news.... should I? [Re: recalcitrant]
    #4906884 - 11/07/05 09:47 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

You never know how those bastards are going to spin what you say. I'd suggest organizing in some way, in your area, if you can. Perhaps then a statement could be made with more credibility, and less intervention. That is, if you think this is going to continue to be in your local media.

In some places, the issues/debate remain, but the news coverage doesn't keep up beyond the initial scare plot. They like striking dangers more than factual followups.


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You're not like the others. You like the same things I do. Wax paper, boiled football leather... dog breath. We're not hitch-hiking anymore, we're riding!

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Invisibleafoaf
CEO DBK?
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Registered: 11/08/02
Posts: 32,665
Loc: Ripple's Heart
Re: Opportunity to represent Salvia to the news.... should I? [Re: Gliders]
    #4907122 - 11/07/05 10:22 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

ask them to submit their questions in writing.

submit your responses to them similarly.

it's a little harder to twist you up when you
can answer thoughtfully from the comfort of your
own home.


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All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.

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InvisibleKoala Koolio
TTAGGGTTAGGGTTAGGGTTAGGG

Registered: 01/07/04
Posts: 7,752
Re: Opportunity to represent Salvia to the news.... should I? [Re: afoaf]
    #4907312 - 11/07/05 11:01 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Yeah, quite true. I was thinking namely of the ways they would use your quotes once they recieved them, as opposed to tainting the actual questioning. But both are real possibilities.

Unless of course, they're willing to print the Q/A verbatim. Seems highly unlikely though.


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You're not like the others. You like the same things I do. Wax paper, boiled football leather... dog breath. We're not hitch-hiking anymore, we're riding!

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Offlinethe man
still masked
Other User Gallery

Registered: 08/12/99
Posts: 6,685
Loc: C A N A D A
Last seen: 4 days, 23 minutes
Re: Opportunity to represent Salvia to the news.... should I? [Re: Koala Koolio]
    #4907657 - 11/08/05 12:27 AM (18 years, 4 months ago)

ask to see the finished editing before they show it. perhaps say that once you heard about this stuff from the paper. you did soem research, tried it, found it to be safe, unaddictive ect ect.

but when they show people on TV that are for it, it solidifies the thought in peoples head that quite a few people do it. i mean you cant tell people crack is bad better then showing them a crack head. or that lsd is bad by showing a washed up hippy with fractured speech.

i think the best thign to do is let teh jornalist do a bit of research, and give him your points via email, and ask if they will be part of the article even if yu dont publicly speak.


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And Moses Said "Let my mushrooms grow!"

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InvisibleStonerguy
I smoke penis
Male

Registered: 05/29/04
Posts: 5,538
Loc: Lost
Re: Opportunity to represent Salvia to the news.... should I? [Re: Gliders]
    #4908077 - 11/08/05 06:16 AM (18 years, 4 months ago)

I think you should do it :thumbup:. You will need to know every aspect of savlia though.  Im sure they will ask you questions and try to contradict what you just said just try not to slip up.  They don't wan't to give it a worthy veiw.  They know that news about people saying fuck you to the man is going to be a big story.


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yawn...
SG

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OfflineVertigo6911
Entheobotanist
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Registered: 12/04/04
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Re: Opportunity to represent Salvia to the news.... should I? [Re: Stonerguy]
    #4908081 - 11/08/05 06:24 AM (18 years, 4 months ago)

well never get any respect in this society
unless we stand op for what you believe in.

i say do it.
most of the drug war propaganda has such strong effects because there
is no1 presenting any other arguments.


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-Know ye not that ye are gods?-
My homepage

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Invisibleshamantra
hobbyethnobotanist

Registered: 05/18/04
Posts: 1,177
Loc: ¯\(º_o)/¯
Re: Opportunity to represent Salvia to the news.... should I? [Re: Vertigo6911]
    #4908135 - 11/08/05 07:22 AM (18 years, 4 months ago)

I disagree. Its always best to shut up. these plants doesnt need to be in the media only in the right hands. Have we lived 600year ago we would be burned alive today they want to see our kind in jail. Thats just how it is.

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OfflinePsiloman
member
Male
Registered: 04/11/03
Posts: 1,116
Loc: Europe
Last seen: 10 years, 6 months
Re: Opportunity to represent Salvia to the news.... should I? [Re: Gliders]
    #4908183 - 11/08/05 07:40 AM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Gliders said:
OK, so my local news has started the scare campaign regarding Salvia. You know the one-- "Think of the children! Something must be done IMMEDIATELY"! I saw this, responded with a well-written, yet obviously biased opinion regarding Salvia and wanting to keep it legal. Now the news wants to run a more balanced report, as they've done online research and have found many in the community who feel the same as I do.

Should I grant the interview, and would this truly be helping the cause? If so, what aspects of Salvia do I highlight-- its rich and ancient history, it's anti-depressant effects, or the plain and simple "stop legislating what I put in my body" angle? Any thoughts would be appreciated.





I dont know if i would do it if i was you.In a perfect or near perfect world i do. But mainly what makes me question their motives is the whole media constitution of sensationalisation... For example have you seen articles on drugs before where they interview a user?

Try finding some online. Half of the time i wanna punch the interviewee , because they come of as ignorant themselves and the best argument they put forth is the almost childish for the masses " i wanna eat it cause i like it ,i dont care, just lemme eat it" which...doesnt work with public opinion. Also on 90% of those interviews from headshop owners to users display lack of knowledge on the plants pharmacology ,history and whatever else that accompanies it. Truth is that the average user's educational level on these matters is very very low...

BUT! I also suspect something else which you should be aware of! Media tend to cut and paste what you say ,and when they publish it there is no turning back...Even if you email them telling them they twisted your words,they wont post a public apology because they got what they wanted out of you.

IF you choose to give that interview some things to have in mind:

1)Educate yurself thoroughly on Salvia its pharmacology and its history. You must KNOW how it operates in the brain. That doesnt mean a quick erowid browse,you should also visite Sagewisdom (Daniel Siebert's website) and Pubmed for latest research done on it (google Pubmed and you wil find it)

2)Refreain in you interview from unproven statements

3)Refrain from "itsmabodyandidowhatiwant". On the contrary challenge if 1 person in the legislation commitee knows how salvia acts,what salvia is and keeps an eye on current research on it. You could also pinpoint that many criminalisation acts especially of plants and substances hastily criminalised (like the one salvia could follow) doesnt seem to be based on scientific citeria ,or scientifically proven damage/addiction but on the hasty signature given by an official that follows the "hysteria" and "think of the kids" not logically sound arguments

4)The best way is to email you the questions so you could write answers back.You could even make a thread here so people could help you present your ideas in the most appropriate manner

5)What also needs to go through is that people with interest in those plants are not teens,escapists, loosers. People well socially adjusted ,with prominent jobss ,high education and high intelligence are also interested in those plants but these cases never make the news due to sensationalism preffering teens who cant word a sentece together,accidents ,crimes but never success stories.

6)Keep a file with your correspondance with them.Dont be amazed if you see your words twisted around

7)Do some digging on the newspaper...Try to collect past "drug issue news" who wrote them and their genertal stance.Pay attention on how they treat their interviewees in past drug news they presented.Also search a bit on the history o your interviewer/article writer.


Thats all i can think for now....

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OfflineGliders
Oh, hello!

Registered: 08/29/05
Posts: 284
Last seen: 17 years, 2 months
Re: Opportunity to represent Salvia to the news.... should I? [Re: Psiloman]
    #4908248 - 11/08/05 08:24 AM (18 years, 4 months ago)

These are great responses, all of them. I truly wish this were an article for the newspaper, as so much more REAL information can be placed in print. Unfortunately, it's the flash-and-razz-ma-tazz TV news. That means sound bytes and condensed information. Make it catchy, make it sizzle, you know.

I'll keep you up to date on what happens here. I've offered to provide research points for the journalist at the very least, via email. I'll post anything she writes to me so the community can have an opportunity to give me talking points, just as you guys have done in this thread so far.

For those of you who don't feel hopeful about the future, you're absolutely right. But far too many of these plants have passed the way of MJ with no one standing up publically for them. I'm sure it will become illegal someday, but at least they'll know someone cared.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
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Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 38,008
Re: Opportunity to represent Salvia to the news.... should I? [Re: Gliders]
    #4908715 - 11/08/05 11:01 AM (18 years, 4 months ago)

have to hit these points

1 few people who try it repeat the experience
2 some people obtain no effects at all
3 it is not fundamentally pleasurable
4 duration is usually under 5 mins
5 no direct health risks unlike alcohol and tobacco glue or nitrous

you can elaborate that it is not quite the same as tripping more like dreaming; especially since one normally is told to sit or lie still and close eyes to try it.

everyone says do not go outside to test it's properties, and indeed for a brief period, most people do not want to.
also the semi-euphoric after glow effect is too subtle and intellectually reflective for most people to be interested in.


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:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:

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OfflineVertigo6911
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Re: Opportunity to represent Salvia to the news.... should I? [Re: Gliders]
    #4908736 - 11/08/05 11:10 AM (18 years, 4 months ago)

and if all who came before us had kept there mouthes shut we would still be being burned alive today...


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-Know ye not that ye are gods?-
My homepage

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InvisibleCorporal Kielbasa

Registered: 05/29/04
Posts: 17,235
Re: Opportunity to represent Salvia to the news.... should I? [Re: Gliders]
    #4909791 - 11/08/05 04:06 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

Are you fit to represent this herb? AKA not a junkie? Are you intellegent and articulated with your words? Are you going to smoke it infront of the news cameras and fall to the floor or the camera man and start twitching franticly? Did you go to scool for botany or ethnobotany?

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Offlineblazed123
Bing

Registered: 10/21/04
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Last seen: 13 years, 4 months
Re: Opportunity to represent Salvia to the news.... should I? [Re: Corporal Kielbasa]
    #4911151 - 11/08/05 08:44 PM (18 years, 4 months ago)

I say do it!!!!
I believe you are saying they are going to air something about it anyway. In that case, its not bringing it to the attention of people that wouldn't see it anyway. It is however, bringing parts of the debate to their attention that they will probably never get.

I'm sure we all realize this but,
1.It's certainly not addictive. Plenty of people with plants, which means easy access, don't or hardly ever smoke them. I've met tons of people that have tried smoking it. I've never met a regular user. Check rehab stats.
2.It's really not toxic or deadly in any way (as far as I have read). Without much risk for habitual use, even long-term smoke damage to the lungs is not much of a factor. In that respect, its safer than cigarettes. It's not going to hurt your liver like alcohol. These two substances generate some negitive attention anyway, so they might not be the best comparison. But even caffeine has a high tendency for habitual use and can cause health problems. There is also a long history of use to examine as opposed to some new blood pressure medication or a new recreational (research) chemical, so if it caused strokes or something major like these other things it would probably be reflected in research. I'm sure medical stat comparisons can help this argument. How many people have gone to the emergency room for it vs. other common things?
3.It doesn't last long enough for someone to get in the car and drive on it unless they do it while driving or purposely try....or if they take it orally, which most kids don't. That makes it even less harmful than marijuana, which has now been made legal for personal use in the city of Denver. Parents may worry that their kids are doing this, but there's actually no significant risks. They may be getting intoxicated, but we have come to associate intoxication with all the negative effects that this plant does not have. We have skewed our minds to believe that intoxication is bad because the two are so often linked that we assign our opposition to the intoxication itself. They hear the worst case reports and take that as the norm until it becomes a sort of Reefer Madness embellishment. You might even use that to start out, to show why you feel it is important to set the facts straight because I doubt anyone making these claims knows much about it besides what they read on erowid, something which ranges in accuracy quite a bit.

I still say go for it. There are many arguments, but don't just go in with the arguments. You need to back them up not only with logic, but visible evidence like statistics. Consider your audience. What are their fears? They would expect you to argue in favor of any "drug" you like, they might not care what you say...but showing them will prove that its more than you defending what you like to do with your own justification of it. You also need to present yourself as someone who should be taken seriously. Image is alot. I do think it is a tough job, but you have a rare opportunity. I definitely respect you if you decide to do it. I wouldn't look down on you if you don't.

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