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OfflinePsillyNilly
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Registered: 10/15/04
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Can a cell phne be tapped like a house line can?
    #3739653 - 02/06/05 04:46 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

If I get a call on my cell......can Somebody have some type of tracking device on the other end that will expose my location?...kinda like what you see in the movies like they have to be on for atleast 60 seconds on a LAN line in order for a tracking signal to be located?....what applies for cell phones? Is there a time?

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OfflineRandolph_Carter
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Re: Can a cell phne be tapped like a house line can? [Re: PsillyNilly]
    #3739783 - 02/06/05 06:02 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

You don't need to tap a cellphone, all you'd need to do is pick up a scanner and catch the tower-phone broadcast.
Tracking can either be done with radio triangulation or possibly activation/aquisition of the GPS chip inside ANY NEW PHONE, altho i would think that to do that outside of an emergency would require a warrent.
Any cellphone conversation you have is broadcasted, and can be listened to by anyone with capabilities, and they aren't protected by law, since it's broadcast.

Cell phones are NOT SECURE, unless you have some form of encryption on it, and i believe that encrypted telecommunications devices are illegal for personal use.


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"..all those molecules thrashing their kinky little tails, hot for destiny and the street."  Gibson


Nuke baby seals for Jesus!

(This has been a +1 production.)

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OfflinePsillyNilly
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Re: Can a cell phne be tapped like a house line can? [Re: Randolph_Carter]
    #3739838 - 02/06/05 06:30 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Do they sell excryption devices over the net?...for novelty purposes of course

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OfflineRandolph_Carter
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Re: Can a cell phne be tapped like a house line can? [Re: PsillyNilly]
    #3739987 - 02/06/05 07:30 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Not to my knowledge.
You'd have to be transmitting to another encrypted phone,or rather a phone tha has the ability to decrypt the encryption, for it to be at all useful.
And the U.S. really doesn't like strong encryption getting into the hands of the public. Witness the hubbub surrounding PGP.


--------------------
"..all those molecules thrashing their kinky little tails, hot for destiny and the street."  Gibson


Nuke baby seals for Jesus!

(This has been a +1 production.)

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Offlinebeatlebangboy
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Re: Can a cell phne be tapped like a house line can? [Re: Randolph_Carter]
    #3740198 - 02/06/05 09:16 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Randolph Carter said:
Not to my knowledge.
You'd have to be transmitting to another encrypted phone,or rather a phone tha has the ability to decrypt the encryption, for it to be at all useful.
And the U.S. really doesn't like strong encryption getting into the hands of the public. Witness the hubbub surrounding PGP.



God, you're so smart. Is there anything you don't know?


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Offlineguest23
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Registered: 10/24/04
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Re: Can a cell phne be tapped like a house line can? [Re: beatlebangboy]
    #3740463 - 02/06/05 11:26 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Actually, it is illegal for Joe Schmoe to pick up a radio scanner and listen on cell conversations. Thats why you can't by a scanner for certain frequencies at your local Radio Shack.

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Offlinetheocean06
Yeah, I've donefour already...

Registered: 07/10/04
Posts: 1,458
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Re: Can a cell phne be tapped like a house line can? [Re: guest23]
    #3740483 - 02/06/05 11:36 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

I know scanners are illegal in certain states. In the states in can buy them (in the states you can't buy them, there is some gizmo that's for horse races or car races - something like that - which is basically a scanner; wish I could remember the name), just buy a book of frequencies and you should be set.

Scanners aren't that great though. People think they can listen in on police, but if it is something serious, the police will just use an encrypted channel and thus your scanner doesn't do anything.

I would say a cell phone is safe, unless your being watched by LEO, and in that case, your kind of screwed anyway.


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The story of life is quicker then the blink of an eye, the story of love is hello, goodbye.            - Hendrix :bow:

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Offlineguest23
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Registered: 10/24/04
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Re: Can a cell phne be tapped like a house line can? [Re: theocean06]
    #3740588 - 02/06/05 12:31 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Police scanner != cell phone scanner. Completely different frequencies. Scanning police frequencies is legal (in general) and scanning for other people's private phone signals is not.

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Offlineazurescens
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Re: Can a cell phne be tapped like a house line can? [Re: guest23]
    #3740664 - 02/06/05 01:00 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

There ae devices that you can buy....http://www.global-teck.com/english/telecomproducts.php#pc300....but you will have to have the other person(s) have the same device on their phone. And it's not illegal to use encryption for personal communications. Businesses do it all the time to prevent espionage of their ideas and or account records.

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OfflineRandolph_Carter
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Re: Can a cell phne be tapped like a house line can? [Re: guest23]
    #3740671 - 02/06/05 01:02 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

guest23 said:
Actually, it is illegal for Joe Schmoe to pick up a radio scanner and listen on cell conversations. Thats why you can't by a scanner for certain frequencies at your local Radio Shack.




Cellular ? handset / modem: 824.01 to 848.97; cell towers; 869.01 to 893.97 MHz
http://www.stevenswater.com/telemetry_com/vhf_uhf_info.aspx

http://store.yahoo.com/able-america/unbbettrbasc.html
Continuous coverage (12 band)
- Covers 29-956MHz, including 800MHz and aircraft

Online's just as close as radio shack man.


--------------------
"..all those molecules thrashing their kinky little tails, hot for destiny and the street."  Gibson


Nuke baby seals for Jesus!

(This has been a +1 production.)

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OfflineRandolph_Carter
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Re: Can a cell phne be tapped like a house line can? [Re: azurescens]
    #3740707 - 02/06/05 01:10 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

"The Snapcell-300 is approved by the U.S. Commerce Department for export."

The U.S. does NOT allow export of strong encryption. The sheer fact that it is allowed for transport is indicative of its faults.
Specific quotes taken from a site on U.S. encryption export policy:
http://mhintze.tripod.com/pubs/US_Crypto_Policy_CTLR.htm

""Certain mass-market encryption software that use algorithms with a key length of 40 bits or less may be released, after a one-time review, from normal EI controls and made eligible for mass market treatment (which includes eligibility for all the provisions of the Export Administration Regulations applicable to other software)."

and
"This category includes "key escrow" or "key recovery" products in which the keys or other information required to decrypt a message or stored data are kept by a key recovery agent and are accessible to government officials under proper legal authority. This category also includes "recoverable" encryption products which are those that allow government access the plaintext of the encrypted data and communications without the need to recover the encryption keys. An example of a "recoverable" encryption product is a cellular telephone that encrypts messages for only the "over-the-air" portion of the transmission, and where the plaintext can be accessed at the switch or at another point where the transmission proceeds unencrypted."

So the encryption you've outlined is either just from the phone to tower, has a backdoor for government use, or is plain old weak.


--------------------
"..all those molecules thrashing their kinky little tails, hot for destiny and the street."  Gibson


Nuke baby seals for Jesus!

(This has been a +1 production.)

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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero

Folding@home Statistics
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Re: Can a cell phne be tapped like a house line can? [Re: azurescens]
    #3740827 - 02/06/05 01:36 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

> And it's not illegal to use encryption for personal communications

It is illegal in France (or at least it was back in the late 90's), but not the US.


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Just another spore in the wind.

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InvisibleGeordi_La_Forge
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Re: Can a cell phne be tapped like a house line can? [Re: Seuss]
    #3740969 - 02/06/05 02:14 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

All cell phone carriers use a type of encryption....the phones that you were able to pick up on regular scanners were old analog channels. If you live in the sticks and know someone that still uses an analog phone I guess you could listen to their call. But most people at this point use a GSM or TDMA network which does infact use encryption.

Can law enforcement listen to this....yup

Can Joe Schmo....yes..but its unlikely...


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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero

Folding@home Statistics
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Re: Can a cell phne be tapped like a house line can? [Re: Geordi_La_Forge]
    #3744410 - 02/07/05 07:07 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

> But most people at this point use a GSM or TDMA network which does infact use encryption.

GSM is more of an obscuration than an encryption. It is extremly easy to undo with the proper equipment. I am not sure if you could put the setup together cheaper, but the one I built was around $40,000 in gear.


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Just another spore in the wind.

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InvisibleEvilEwok
Stranger
Registered: 10/09/03
Posts: 574
Re: Can a cell phne be tapped like a house line can? [Re: Seuss]
    #3744657 - 02/07/05 09:45 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

I know what I'm getting when I have a spare 40 grand laying around!


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Now go Home.

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OfflineSaturnine
on the losthighway

Registered: 12/18/01
Posts: 28
Last seen: 19 years, 1 month
Re: Can a cell phne be tapped like a house line can? [Re: EvilEwok]
    #3754709 - 02/09/05 02:56 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

(QUOTE)You don't need to tap a cellphone, all you'd need to do is pick up a scanner and catch the tower-phone broadcast.
Tracking can either be done with radio triangulation or possibly activation/aquisition of the GPS chip inside ANY NEW PHONE, altho i would think that to do that outside of an emergency would require a warrent.ny cellphone conversation you have is broadcasted, and can be listened to by anyone with capabilities, and they aren't protected by law, since it's broadcast.

Cell phones are NOT SECURE, unless you have some form of encryption on it, and i believe that encrypted telecommunications devices are illegal for personal use(/QUOTE)

....Even my techno illiterate wife was giggling when I read this post to her. I was aghast until I realized that better minds had prevailed later on.

(QUOTE)All cell phone carriers use a type of encryption....the phones that you were able to pick up on regular scanners were old analog channels. If you live in the sticks and know someone that still uses an analog phone I guess you could listen to their call. But most people at this point use a GSM or TDMA network which does infact use encryption.

Can law enforcement listen to this....yup

Can Joe Schmo....yes..but its unlikely... (/QUOTE)

Much better response. Though most cell phones use a system kinda like PCM, no frequency modulation(FM) or amplitude modulation(AM)....the easy to tap stuff/the stuff you tap for giggles. You're safer using your cell than your land line. If the government is listening....you're in much deeper shit than drugs.
As a side note: on your land line there is a system listening
for certain words/(combinations of words), my father created it.

Anyone guess what my avatar is?

PS what happened to the "Other Drugs" group?

Edit: Oh, 4096 bit encryption systems are easily available in the US...just don't send them out of the country.


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"If you don't stop tickling me, I'll gut your friend"

Edited by Saturnine (02/09/05 02:59 AM)

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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/27/01
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Re: Can a cell phne be tapped like a house line can? [Re: EvilEwok]
    #3754843 - 02/09/05 04:38 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

> I know what I'm getting when I have a spare 40 grand laying around!

*grin* It was all demo equipment that I had to return to HP after a month. I just wanted to prove to myself that it can be done... it can be.


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Just another spore in the wind.

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OfflineLaughingJim
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Registered: 09/30/04
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Re: Can a cell phne be tapped like a house line can? [Re: Seuss]
    #3754996 - 02/09/05 06:24 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

If the government has a warrant, the cell phone companies just give them access to your line. No tapping is needed, your calls are digital and are being stored for transmition.

Technically, every cell phone gets your calls, yours is the only one that decodes it.

That is why cell phone grabbers work so well.

Cell phones are only digital walkie talkies. Your reception is fine, it is the sound compression quality that sucks. It si so funny to watch people jump around thinking they are getting a better signal. If you lost the signal the phone would hang up. The "Silence" and "Delay" is what the compression codex does to the sound.

Cell phones are similar to Speaker phone, low volume sounds get erased, and high volume sounds get transmitted.

Take any song and save it as a 32 Mbps MP3. That is what you are hearing in your cell phone... actually 28 Mbps.

Your whole hour conversation takes up as much room as a single 5 min song.

A TAP was once a phisicla connection, now also includes lazer window listening devices, TAPs, digital links, and parabollic ears. You still need a warrant for each... to get a warrant, you already have to have proof... if they already have proof, then a tapped call is the least of your worries. (Because they already have enough to encriminate you, they are just looking for more.)


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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/27/01
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Re: Can a cell phne be tapped like a house line can? [Re: LaughingJim]
    #3755230 - 02/09/05 08:56 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

LaughingJim, I am not going to bother tearing your post apart, but you have a lot of incorrect information there.


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Just another spore in the wind.

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Offlineone80to1
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Registered: 01/28/05
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Re: Can a cell phne be tapped like a house line can? [Re: Seuss]
    #3755320 - 02/09/05 09:40 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

So the basic answer is yes cell phone calls are insecure. I wouldnt use it even with encryption cause 1) cracking these things are going to be getting easier and easier with the advent of more powerful computers and 2) the courts can subpena you to release passwords and the encrytion data. Contempt of court is also a bad thing and saying that you forgot it isnt going to fly very well.

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