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 Frog
Warrior
 
Registered: 10/22/03
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 Hell, Fire and Brimstone 
#3605757 - 01/09/05 10:21 PM (19 years, 3 months ago) |
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Does hell exist?
Mainstream Christian doctrines, such as Catholics, Baptists, Protestants, and nondenominational Christians believe that one goes to a place called hell if one doesn't believe in God and accept God's son as his/her saviour.
I am going to look into the bible, which is the only source I believe is available to prove the existence of hell. But since this is the main book of reference for believers, this is all I have.
I realize, though, that interpretation of the bible has caused many Christians to believe things that weren't part of the teachings of either the old or new testaments. So, I'm wondering if the bible does in fact support the determination that one is going to a place called hell if someone doesn't "believe".
I also wonder if other non-Christian faiths have a place called hell. I don't know if I am making a mistake in calling these other faiths "non-Christian" but I'm talking about Muslims, Bhuddists, etc. I know Muslims believe in God. I don't know about Jesus. Oh, and Jews, too.
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The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire. -Teilard
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incubaby_421
half naked andfull witted
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 Re: Hell, Fire and Brimstone [Re: Frog]
#3605786 - 01/09/05 10:30 PM (19 years, 3 months ago) |
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YES!!!! the hell post!!! WOOOOHOOO!!! ive been waiting frog...
here is my believe on all things hellish....
hell is a thought contrived by higher ups in the world of organized religion to maintain order in church and society alike, the idea of the organized church, from the very begining, is power and control, over the followers of thier religion and society in general, becuae the basic concelt is that if everybody in a given community is going to be a "good" person and do the "right" thing, then they will attend church, and therefore live by the doctrines of the church or god or muhhamhed or jahovah or whomever, and therefore they will have certian activities of which they must obstain from, called "sins", but what happens if these simple people commit these "sins"?, the church has to have something more to say then, "god said so so don't do it", so what better reason then eternal damnnation to a hot hot place with a bad bad man whom controls it and is so evil that he was banished from heaven, he will burn you, force you to eat maggots, and sodomize you with his red hot satan horns for an eternity if you break the doctrines of the church.
that has allways been my take on "hell", simply a thought contrived by the church so that they could maintain thier power and control over the population.
love and light,
incubaby.
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"yet the more i dig, the more i consume, the more i unfold... the less protected i feel.
i am the spit on the hair of the son of an electron, swimming around the nucleus of a cell inside the sperm of a killer bee, and my purpose is as nebulous as why weve been bestowed with the capacity to give a shit" Brandon Boyd
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 SkorpivoMusterion
Livin in theTwilight Zone...
Registered: 01/30/03
Posts: 9,954
Loc: You can't spell fungus wi...
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Re: Hell, Fire and Brimstone [Re: Frog]
#3605788 - 01/09/05 10:30 PM (19 years, 3 months ago) |
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Does hell exist?
As a concept, sure... if you define it as a dark, fiery place full of eternal flames with a red-skinned horned man holding a tall pitchfork with a black cape making sure you suffer for all eternity for eating meat on Friday.. or indulging in the seven deadly sins.
As a [subjective] reality? If you define hell as negativity and evil gone amok in the actual dimension of the Here-Now - whether directly or indirectly, i.e. physically or imaginary, yes.
As far as an after-life-type Heaven/Nirvana goes, I have little to no use of such pontifications?
What I find as true Heaven ? as it is the basis of practical-spirituality ? is Here-Now-type Heaven/Nirvana.
People with rigid beliefs in an afterlife-type Heaven, or any other future-based salvation, can often take such beliefs insofar as to create a present Hell.. which of course drips with irony.
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Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.
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incubaby_421
half naked andfull witted
Registered: 08/14/04
Posts: 2,629
Loc: the center of the univers...
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indeed scorio...indeed, and with my final words i bid all at the shroomery good evening.
love and light.
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"yet the more i dig, the more i consume, the more i unfold... the less protected i feel.
i am the spit on the hair of the son of an electron, swimming around the nucleus of a cell inside the sperm of a killer bee, and my purpose is as nebulous as why weve been bestowed with the capacity to give a shit" Brandon Boyd
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Zekebomb
sociophagus
Registered: 08/24/03
Posts: 1,164
Loc: BC province
Last seen: 16 years, 6 months
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Re: Hell, Fire and Brimstone [Re: incubaby_421]
#3606041 - 01/09/05 11:39 PM (19 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
incubaby_421 said:
hell is a thought contrived by higher ups in the world of organized religion to maintain order in church and society alike, the idea of the organized church, from the very begining, is power and control ...etc etc
that argument (i.e. the Man trying to dumb down his flock of mindless decorticated zombies, through Fear, for the purpose of Power and Control) can be applied to Religion in general, or not, but not only to PART of ONE religion (i.e. Hell). I mean, you can if you want (i.e. you just did), but if the argument applies to just one part o fd blarg ..
starting over. if you apply this conspiracy theory to the idea of Hell but not the Religion as a whole, of which the idae of Hell is but a part, then aren't you ... being silly? missing something? why wouldn't the argument apply...asdf jklash; man I can't explain this satisfactorily. but you understand me completely anyways, right?
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder
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Re: Hell, Fire and Brimstone [Re: Frog]
#3606844 - 01/10/05 05:36 AM (19 years, 3 months ago) |
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Yes, Hell exists in the Qu'ran, only one does not stay in Hell for eternity, but is eventually purified by it, like burning the dross off of gold. Hinduism definately has Hell-states as well as celestial-Heaven-states, as well as Liberation from the cycle of becoming. Buddhism likewise has Hells, particularly in Tibetan Buddhism. I have a book about Buddhist Hells. They also have Liberation from the Wheel of Life like Hinduism, and both of those religions may confine one to Hell for aeons, but eventually one comes back to a human birth, and if fortunate, uses that lifetime to escape the whole cycle of becoming.
Matthew is the Gospel author who is primarily responsible for the traditions of Hell fire and brimstone. Yes, there are references to a 'lake of fire,' and places where 'the worm dieth not.' Gehenna is also mentioned, but that was a geographical locus where the fires never died because it was a perpetual garbage dump and incinerator. One can imagine the vermin, flies, stench - a good simile for Hell. It really wasn't until Dante and the medievalists who came up with some of the most creative infernal tortures, bested only by real Inquisitioners.
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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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skystone
stop the motion
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Hell is selfpunishment of a pieceless mind, sort of like a bad LSD trip
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"..and suddenly it began to rain"
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incubaby_421
half naked andfull witted
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Posts: 2,629
Loc: the center of the univers...
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Re: Hell, Fire and Brimstone [Re: skystone]
#3607498 - 01/10/05 11:46 AM (19 years, 3 months ago) |
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well zekebomb, evidently you didnt read my entire post which i suggest you do becuase, how many times did i say "in geberal"?, how many different religions did i reference (only three i beleive but i was extremely tired), i was not saying that christians invented hell to scare people, per say, i was more saying that in rder for any organized religion to maintain any sort of power over order and therefore society, there must be consequences for not obeying their doctrines, i.e. hell, the concept can be applied to any organized religion in existence, with the exception of buddhism, i believe, though i dont know to much about it, i dont believe they concentrate on fear.
lon twas to you zekebomb, that is my feeling of organized religions alike, they induce fear to maintain power, they are no different from governments or corporations, except in their tactics.
love and light.
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"yet the more i dig, the more i consume, the more i unfold... the less protected i feel.
i am the spit on the hair of the son of an electron, swimming around the nucleus of a cell inside the sperm of a killer bee, and my purpose is as nebulous as why weve been bestowed with the capacity to give a shit" Brandon Boyd
Edited by incubaby_421 (01/10/05 11:50 AM)
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Cosm
Questioning
Registered: 05/07/04
Posts: 448
Loc: somewhere
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Re: Hell, Fire and Brimstone [Re: Frog]
#3607502 - 01/10/05 11:48 AM (19 years, 3 months ago) |
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The bible doesnt mention much about it.It was the middle age poets who expanded upon the concept of hell.
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Moonshoe
Blue Mantis
Registered: 05/28/04
Posts: 27,202
Loc: Iceland
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Re: Hell, Fire and Brimstone [Re: Frog]
#3607530 - 01/10/05 11:56 AM (19 years, 3 months ago) |
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the human conciousness constantly creates its own experiential reality. its capacity to do so is UNLIMITED. the human mind can and will create for itself heaven, hell and everything in between. Only very damaged minds and souls end up stuck in that self imposed torture though (hell)
it is quite possible that if you convince yourself that hell exists and you deserve to be there, you will.
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Everything I post is fiction.
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incubaby_421
half naked andfull witted
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Re: Hell, Fire and Brimstone [Re: Moonshoe]
#3607536 - 01/10/05 11:59 AM (19 years, 3 months ago) |
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but what gets to me about religion is that poeople simply allow the chirch to feed them thoughts hat they are supposed to have and then limit themselves to those thoughts. BAAAA BAAAA
not all, but most.
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"yet the more i dig, the more i consume, the more i unfold... the less protected i feel.
i am the spit on the hair of the son of an electron, swimming around the nucleus of a cell inside the sperm of a killer bee, and my purpose is as nebulous as why weve been bestowed with the capacity to give a shit" Brandon Boyd
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leturheadread
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Re: Hell, Fire and Brimstone [Re: skystone]
#3607622 - 01/10/05 12:24 PM (19 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
skystone said:
Hell is selfpunishment of a pieceless mind, sort of like a bad LSD trip
Well as for hell i think there is some kind of hell, certainly not a horned red guy who pokes you with a pitchfork, but more of a eternal mind fuck like a bad trip. maybe not eternal maybe you can graduate from hell(i would sure hope so). anyways I'm a follower of Christ, but i don't take the bible word for word (that would b foolish of me) one of the big problems i have with it is that for choosing the wrong religion you will go to hell, or for not even choosing one as you can see historically that all (or most i dono) religions have done bad things. I don't think Christ would allow one or millions of his lost sheep be raped by hillbillies for all of eternity. Some believe hell is simply the absences of god. An interesting movie was What Dreams May Come, it had allot of what i thought was crap but it had some interesting ideas about heaven and hell. anyways just my 2 cents.
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"Im the conundrummer in a band called Life Puzzler" RENAGADE ANGEL
-trip trip along
spend your day
don't spend it all
trip trip
trip but don't fall-
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Gomp
¡(Bound to·(O))be free!
Registered: 09/11/04
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hell is, your own fears, manifested as real, by you, as you, in you, around you, etc, etc, etc..
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Disclaimer!?
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero
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Posts: 23,480
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Re: Hell, Fire and Brimstone [Re: Frog]
#3607775 - 01/10/05 01:02 PM (19 years, 3 months ago) |
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> Does hell exist?
In my experience, yes, with there being two modes of existence: duality (hell) and oneness (heaven). Oddly enough, with my theory, heaven encompasses all of hell, but hell has no part of heaven (which is paradoxical when viewed with a dualistic mindset). Related to the bible, I would equate the story in Genesis and getting booted from Eden as the awakening of mankind from oneness to the horrors of duality.
I do not believe in the concept of heaven and hell as dicated by most Christian faiths. As others have stated, this seems to be a creation of the Church used to maintain order within the flock. Go against the law of God, which happens to be interpreted by the Church, then you will burn in hell forever... but if you do what the Church likes (I mean follow the law of God), then you get to go to heaven and have a great time ever after.
I don't know about life after death, but I do believe that you can live in heaven without having to die first. It is unfortunate that most of us choose to live in hell instead (myself included).
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Just another spore in the wind.
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Sinbad
Living TheMoment
Registered: 12/23/04
Posts: 2,571
Loc: Under The Bodhi Tree
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Re: Hell, Fire and Brimstone [Re: Seuss]
#3607974 - 01/10/05 01:55 PM (19 years, 3 months ago) |
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Certainly sounds like a valid philosophy to me. Almost buddhist in nature!
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uriahchase
Skinny White Boy
Registered: 09/25/04
Posts: 675
Loc: SoCal
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Re: Hell, Fire and Brimstone [Re: Sinbad]
#3608168 - 01/10/05 02:40 PM (19 years, 3 months ago) |
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hell exists if only in thought or as a word. it is just hell to think of going to a "place" called hell though aint it? or is it. hell may be hell if it were what some call heaven. by questioning hell, it exists. at least to you..there has to be or other wise you would not have asked of it's existance in the first place...i think.
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Wanting to be someone else is a waste of the person you are -Kurt Cobain
Hotter than the left sink handle.
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Sinbad
Living TheMoment
Registered: 12/23/04
Posts: 2,571
Loc: Under The Bodhi Tree
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Re: Hell, Fire and Brimstone [Re: uriahchase]
#3608217 - 01/10/05 02:50 PM (19 years, 3 months ago) |
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Hell is extreme suffering, which i think most of us have experienced. Whether it is an actual physical dimension is debatable.
But the possiblilty of heavan and hell existing in ones own mind stream, seems logical, as i am sure we have all exprienced to varying degrees both happiness and suffering. Whether permenant happiness is attainable is also debateable, as both experiences of suffering and happiness are each fickle and fleeting at best.
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Gomp
¡(Bound to·(O))be free!
Registered: 09/11/04
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Re: Hell, Fire and Brimstone [Re: Sinbad]
#3608250 - 01/10/05 02:56 PM (19 years, 3 months ago) |
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Does hell exist?
Hell:
The place of eternal punishment for the wicked after death, presided over by Satan. Satan being, your own fear of fears. :P
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Disclaimer!?
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Sinbad
Living TheMoment
Registered: 12/23/04
Posts: 2,571
Loc: Under The Bodhi Tree
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Re: Hell, Fire and Brimstone [Re: Gomp]
#3608280 - 01/10/05 03:01 PM (19 years, 3 months ago) |
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Their are many view of what Hell is. Personally i belive the Christian version pretty distorted. If anything i belive that hell is created from our own minds, just as this human condition is! Its all cause and effect baby!
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incubaby_421
half naked andfull witted
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Posts: 2,629
Loc: the center of the univers...
Last seen: 5 years, 9 months
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Re: Hell, Fire and Brimstone [Re: Sinbad]
#3608304 - 01/10/05 03:05 PM (19 years, 3 months ago) |
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so seuss, hell is an annex of heaven? or a recess of your own mind entered only by choice and left only by understanding???
i think frog needs to tell us if we are talking about hell like hell where you go after you die or hell like living in hell within your own thoughts.
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"yet the more i dig, the more i consume, the more i unfold... the less protected i feel.
i am the spit on the hair of the son of an electron, swimming around the nucleus of a cell inside the sperm of a killer bee, and my purpose is as nebulous as why weve been bestowed with the capacity to give a shit" Brandon Boyd
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