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Offlinezacmasters7
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Need some mentoring please.
    #27034830 - 11/12/20 09:05 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Hi,  I'm new to growing mushrooms and have been reading countless threads for literally hours a day and finding it's not really getting me anywhere.  There's just too much information on here. 

I was looking for the easiest, cheapest and maintenance free way to grow a few mushrooms for my family but now I've found it to be insanely time consuming and complicated and essentially there seems to be no real short-cut's to be made. 

The story so far is, I purchased 4 LC's online, Phoenix Oysters, Pink Oysters, Shiitake and Sword belt.  I've finally inoculated my first batch of jars, made 1 LC and have done a bit of agar work, so I understand the basics. 

So my idea was to slowly rotate these 4 by making 4 jars of clean L.C and just keeping them in the fridge, inoculating grain jars as I go.  Just a few a week or every 2 weeks.

The vendor I purchased the syringes from said they would last 6-12 months in the fridge.  So I figured it would be easy for me to do the same, by making jars of LC.

But its not so simple, i.e according to what Ive recently read, my pink oysters shouldve die long ago in the fridge.

So what I'm asking,  I'm asking for a little bit of expert help.  Someone who has tried everything over the years and has worked out a system. 

Maybe what I had in mind is completely unrealistic and someone should tell me that.

Whats possible? what's not possible?

This aint like growing carrots.  I wish I didnt start tbh.

So what does it take to get a small harvest of mushrooms every so often?  How many jars would you need?  How do you keep everything alive and rotating? 

Many questions. 

Thanks so much for reading.  Please respond and happy to hear from anyone.

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Offlinedeadmandave
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Re: Need some mentoring please. [Re: zacmasters7]
    #27034940 - 11/12/20 10:02 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Yeah dont keep Pinks in the fridge.

If you want a perpetual weekly harvest you need to do a weekly routine.. like once a week you'll need to:

mess with your LC's (put them on agar and make sure they're clean)
-also put them on agar so that in 12 months you can revitalize (make new) liquid cultures.

sterilize and inoculate grain jars

prep bulk substrate and inoculate with grains
-for a beginner i would look into lipas fuel pellet tek as well as growing oysters on straw.

Fruiting chamber maintenance. (cleaning once a week seems fair)

keep reading, take things one step at a time. Its so worth it when you get a flush of mushrooms.

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Invisibleteknix
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Re: Need some mentoring please. [Re: deadmandave]
    #27035007 - 11/12/20 10:46 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

What's possible isn't always what's most effective. The best bet is to find a tek and follow it, then after you get down the basics you can figure out what is possible and effective for your given situation.

My situation, environment, and available resources is going to vary from yours.

I just make enough jars for a grow and don't keep rotating. I store Cultures in the fridge, and use them when I start a new batch. Sometimes I clone a mushroom from a grow to continue the culture.

You can just leave 1 jar of spawn behind to inoculate your next run of grains if you want to keep it going, but if there is a contam in that jar, or an error in your process, the grains you inoculate with it will be wasted.

The best teacher is going to be experience, the more you do it the easier it becomes.

The most maintenance free way is growing them in vitro in a filter patch bag.

You will learn shortcuts for your situation with experience, at first tho, just take the extreme measures presented to be successful. (IMO)

If you have anything more specific, I will answer it if I can.

Clean Environment:

The big thing is making sure you are wearing PPE and not introducing contams from yourself or the environment. So get a glove box or just a faceless cube made of whatever, to work in, that's the right size to do your work. You don't need a flowhood, but you do need a clean place to do work. You can even use a room with little air current and an air purifier (** HEPA GRADE **), or chemicals like lysol to decontaminate a room/area if you need too. (But you are a big vector for introduction of contaminants into your cultures, so always keep that in mind)  Some people decontam their bathroom and use it, but you need to do it so the lysol isn't getting into your cultures/spawn/substrate. (trace amounts aren't devastating, but it isn't desirable).

Sterilization:

You also Need a way to sterilize your grains and tools you are going to work with, generally that is done with a PC (Pressure cooker), you can wrap your tools in aluminum foil and put them in the PC each and every time you sterilize your grains and/or substrates. The tool I use most often for spawning is a spoon.

Prepare in advance:

You can flame sterilize loops, scalpels and syringes too, but I usually just PC enough of them for the task I'm doing. So prepare what you need in advance, don't be running around trying to get stuff together in the middle of the procedure. Make a checklist if you need to, and double check you have everything you need before you start!


Edited by teknix (11/12/20 11:10 AM)

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OfflineHaywire
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Re: Need some mentoring please. [Re: teknix]
    #27035155 - 11/12/20 12:15 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

I would:

- inoculate an agar plate with your lc, then store in fridge.
- use the agar plate to inoculate grain spawn or LC whatever you feel most comfortable with
- get a bale of straw or strawpellets/hardwood fuel pellets and look up a substrate recipe that works for you.
- sterilize the substrates and inoculate with your grain spawn.
- Depending on season and location, you'll need to figure out some kind of grow tent.

and I concur with everything the gentlemen (or ladies for all I know) said above.

Start with oysters, they're the most forgiving.
If you want, I can send you a new pink culture, as well as different oyster cultures.


--------------------
Ciao mamma, guarda come mi diverto


My grows :mushroom2: Outdoor patches

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Offlinezacmasters7
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Re: Need some mentoring please. [Re: deadmandave]
    #27036115 - 11/12/20 11:27 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Hi Dave Thanks for the reply.

So seems like you don't mind the liquid culture idea.  I also like the sound of LC but I know nothing. but maybe G2G is better but seems more likely to get contamination.

So lets talk numbers, and how would I get this rolling?

My idea is clean up the cultures I have now on agar>>>  LC pint jar>>>syringe (dont know how many to make? 3 or 4>) >>>grain jars >>> master mix 5lb bags >>>>SGFC. 

I could easily PC two 5lb bags together once a fortnight.  Seems manageable and a good place to start.  So 4 bags a month. 48 bags a year.
Thats sounding like ALOT adding up over the year. Maybe too much?  Too little?  So I would need 2qt jars of spawn ready each fortnight, seems easy enough.

I also think 4 cultures may possibly be too much work.  I definitely want to do shiitake and some type of oysters variety.  What do you recommend?

Any help with the number of jars, LC's and agar plates I would need to prepare would be great.

Thanks again.

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Offlinezacmasters7
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Re: Need some mentoring please. [Re: teknix]
    #27036131 - 11/12/20 11:46 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

hi teknix

Thanks so much for the reply,  Im very happy for the help.  Regarding the clean space.  Ive been setting up a make shift SAB in my kitchen, however it is an open plan drafty area of the house.  I could possibly set up a small desk area in the spare bedroom, however it is carpeted and has a bed in there, even if I did spray lysol everywhere not sure if it would actually help.  Laundry area and the bathroom don't seem like a comfortable work space.  What would you pick be?  Kitchen, bathroom or bedroom?

And if you dont mind me asking, how many agar plates, jars and 5lb bags should I be preparing? Whats too much?  whats too little?

Checklist is also a great idea.  Thanks.

Hope to hear more of your input

thanks again.

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Offlinebogdancev
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Re: Need some mentoring please. [Re: zacmasters7]
    #27036180 - 11/13/20 12:20 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

You set up your SAB in a room where you can shut all the windows and doors.
You don't really care about cleanness of this room. You SAB can be stored somewhere convenient and you just take it out and setup whenever is needed.

You can read about craziness of SAB preparation that includes taking shower, wrapping up in rubber or being naked etc., but all you need is to place it on a table in a room with shut doors, let it sit for 10 min so anything in it falls down with help of gravity. Walls, floor of SAB should be sprayed with soapy water so that everything that falls sticks and stays there. Have gloves.

How many depends on your equipment, how many Pasty plates/Petri dishes fits into your SAB in a way you have space to work inside? How many times do you want/willing to do it per day?
How many jars fits in your PC?

Personally I do 6 of Pasty plates at a time, once inoculated, I store them on shelf. I pressure cook 5-6 jars, once cold I use one plate and cut 5-6 wages from it to inoculate 5-6 jars.
On a particular day I pressure cook either jars or Pasty plates; if I setup SAB, I will do either jars or Pasty plates inoculation, but not both in one day.

If I do jars every two weeks, then a batch of plates lasts about 2 months. Jars colonization goes about 2 weeks too (though I'm not sure how fast it goes with LC, probably much faster).
I also fruit my containers twice (some people do it 3 times), then I bury spent substrate outside so I have extra outside mushrooms.

I give some spent substrate to other people, they bury it too in their gardens.

This way the hobby is nice and not laborious, and I have mushrooms to eat.

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Offlinezacmasters7
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Re: Need some mentoring please. [Re: bogdancev]
    #27036277 - 11/13/20 02:28 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Hi BOgdancev.  Thanks for the reply.  I chuckled when you mention the naked SAB tek. But thats some really solid advice on that, sounds easy to manage.

So how do you inoculate your first 6 pasty plates? Where does that culture come from? How is it stored? and you mention fruiting your container?  You mean monotub for oysters?  or something else.

Thanks again for the time.

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Offlinebogdancev
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Re: Need some mentoring please. [Re: zacmasters7]
    #27036324 - 11/13/20 03:24 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

I went to a mall in nearby bigger town and bought 150g of packed oysters. Cloned it to Pasty plate, and once mushrooms grew, they did not produce spores. I asked about that here and people suggested it probably was SPPOPO, a sporeless variety. It also appears to be very popular nowadays.

I did this because I wanted to experience the whole cycle from the beginning, but the easier way would be just to buy ready culture or spawn (a bag of oats or other grain that has already been colonized). I checked the priced in my county, it is really cheap.

I use plastic 8L containers, I drill holes in them all around except 1 side. I fill them up with substrate/spawn mixture, it is basically a bucket tek but instead of buckets I use transparent plastic containers.

There is a picture of my very first grow attempt, I did it on egg-boxes and I did not fill the container up, so some mushrooms started to form inside:


This is another storage container positions on the side:

Edited by bogdancev (11/13/20 05:57 AM)

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Invisibleteknix
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Re: Need some mentoring please. [Re: zacmasters7]
    #27036546 - 11/13/20 07:59 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

zacmasters7 said:
hi teknix

Thanks so much for the reply,  Im very happy for the help.  Regarding the clean space.  Ive been setting up a make shift SAB in my kitchen, however it is an open plan drafty area of the house.  I could possibly set up a small desk area in the spare bedroom, however it is carpeted and has a bed in there, even if I did spray lysol everywhere not sure if it would actually help.  Laundry area and the bathroom don't seem like a comfortable work space.  What would you pick be?  Kitchen, bathroom or bedroom?






Your still air box should be fine wherever you like it. The problem with a SAB is that it is a PITA to try to put your colonized grains (Spawn) into the substrate (Bulk) inside a SAB. SAB is great for your agar work, and grain inoculations, or making cakes and whatnot. But if you are Spawning monotubs or big 5 pounds bag like you said, you will need a pretty big SAB to do that in.I don't have that So I personally just clean a room for plenty of room to work, and it goes a lot faster that way too. I'm not sure what I would pick in your situation, I've used a closet, my bathroom, my kitchen, and now I just use my dining room. Seems like you are favoring your kitchen though :smile:

The Room you use for spawning to bulk will depend, like if you have a lot of traffic in your house, you will want a place you won't be interrupted.


Quote:

zacmasters7 said:
And if you dont mind me asking, how many agar plates, jars and 5lb bags should I be preparing? Whats too much?  whats too little?

Checklist is also a great idea.  Thanks.

Hope to hear more of your input

thanks again.




It depends on your PC, Here is what I do when I do a PC run. This is with a 23 Quart Presto it holds 7 Quart jars around the bottom, Always get wide mouth jars if you can, they are far more versatile and easier to work with (They are upside down just because being lazy :P):



Then you still have room on the top for half pint jars, with half pint jars you can make no pour agar dishes or LC's, or add some of your bags of substrate on top of them, or your petri dishes you are sterilizing, among other things;



Then don't forget your aluminum foil tool wallet on top of it all (Usually trifolded, so you can leave some covered and access a couple at a time) :



If I was doing a run of entire bags, I can fit 8 bags each with 3 quarts of substrate, (it's 23 quart but it fits when I squeeze the air out of the bags, because it's a loose 24 quarts in the bags) Or 6 bags with 4 quarts of substrate. Lets just say I did a run making my 7 quarts of spawn, some no-pour agar jars and LC's, and they all colonized and were successful, and let's say I'm just working on growing one species of mushroom. I have 7 Quarts of spawn and 6 bags and I need 1 to inoculate the next run of grains, so I put 1 quart per each bag. If I got some contams, I might have to use less spawn. Or just start from agar or LC.

You can keep cultures in the fridge for a long time, I have some that are about 3 years old that still seem fine. I put them in a mini fridge:



Or double bag them (Sandwich bags inside a freezer bag, for syringes and plates) Or if you are put an LC or Agar Jar in a food fridge for storage, just don't have holes in the lid, or if you do just bag it.

Crisper drawer mess :P


Edited by teknix (11/13/20 08:45 AM)

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Invisibleteknix
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Re: Need some mentoring please. [Re: teknix]
    #27036568 - 11/13/20 08:13 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Both of these shiitake strains have been in the fridge for about 3 years before I just got them going again, it's a Westwind and a 3872.



I'm growing them out to get some fresh mycelium to clone, along with reishi and lion's mane.

So my 7 quarts were 5 different species/strains if you count the wild reishi clone I'm working on. I expanded some and used some to spawn to bulk. :smile:

Edited by teknix (11/13/20 08:20 AM)

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Offlinezacmasters7
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Re: Need some mentoring please. [Re: bogdancev]
    #27037914 - 11/13/20 11:17 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Bogdance,  Thanks,  they look delicious and so simple.  I've seen Oysters growing out of buckets also but would you need a fruiting chamber to do that?  Do they fruit all year?

I did some more reading, and as Teknix just mentioned below, people say its a PITA to go from grain jar to bag successfully in a SAB, seems pointless with Oyster's anyway when you can get that kind of result just on egg boxes.

Can you grow Shiitake in the same way?  I've only seen shiitake logs and grow bags.

Thanks again.

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Offlinebogdancev
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Re: Need some mentoring please. [Re: zacmasters7]
    #27038047 - 11/14/20 01:03 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Yes, you need "fruiting chamber". But that can be anything, it can be proper fruiting chamber with controlled environment, a greenhouse tent, some dude here uses big plastic box, or it can even be open air (provided some shade and more-or-less humid condition).

Personally I have enclosure constructed from plastic mesh, covered with transparent plastic with opening on the bottom (you can see it on above picture), a USB fan is blowing int that opening, humid air is pumped in on the top.
So you see, you can be creative with that.

They do fruit all the year, but I live in South Africa, winters are just dry seasons with little cold.

You do it in SAB when you have supplementation (like coffee, bran, etc), if it is unsupplemented substrate you just do it open air.

Personally I have big plastic bucket, it put substrate there, then throw spawn on top, then break the spawn with bare hands (I do wash them with soap prior) and then mix it also with bare hands. And that is it, never had mold in fruiting buckets.

I have never tried Shiitake. But do oysters first because Shiitake takes awfully long time. When you become familiar with all this, then attempt something more difficult.

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OfflineSHROOMSISAY01M
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Re: Need some mentoring please. [Re: bogdancev]
    #27039185 - 11/14/20 05:13 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

You need a fruiting chamber of some sort that you can exhaust the air out of. A mono tub does not work well with oysters.

Edited by SHROOMSISAY01 (11/15/20 03:41 PM)

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Offlinezacmasters7
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Re: Need some mentoring please. [Re: teknix]
    #27039856 - 11/15/20 02:23 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Hi teknix,

Thanks for the comments and pictures.

So Ive done more reading and alot of the people who have tried LC retired it for agar complaining of contamination.  So I think I will just do agar and G2G and just have a bunch of plates ready instead of syringes.  I will also try grain to bag transfers of shiitake just for giggles but focus on the oysters.

Now I just have to hurry up and wait for my new pressure cooker to arrive and get cracking at cleaning up cultures.

Thanks again.

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OfflineSHROOMSISAY01M
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Re: Need some mentoring please. [Re: zacmasters7]
    #27040806 - 11/15/20 03:39 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

I would suggest making a few master slants and then just do G2G until they stop producing well. Then just take from the master and make new grain and start over. G2G is much more reliable compared to LC. You should be able to go a long time just doing the G2G before you have to dig into the master.

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Offlinezacmasters7
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Re: Need some mentoring please. [Re: SHROOMSISAY01]
    #27041544 - 11/16/20 02:57 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Hey shroomsisay,
Great time to chime in!

I was reading up about slants but would love a bit of clarification on how you would go slant>grain. So I read you can store pink oyster in a water solution on a "wedge".  What exactly is that?  Just a wedge of agar with the pink oyster growing? Then you just drop this into a distilled water solution and can be left at room temperature?

So to go from this wedge?  Or a slant to grain? Is it just a matter of rubbing an inoculation loop on the culture to make the transfer? or you need to be cutting out and scooping out the agar?

Are you going straight to grain?  or agar then grain?

Thanks.

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OfflineSHROOMSISAY01M
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Re: Need some mentoring please. [Re: zacmasters7]
    #27042279 - 11/16/20 01:49 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

I know myers mushroom (Gr0wer) was using distilled water in his slants he would use a thin layer of mineral oil so the mycelium didn't grow up the sides. But I just do agar slants.

You go from slant to agar to grain.

I do not like pink oysters they do not produce enough. Yellow is better but you will still get a reduced yield compared to Amycel 3015 or Aloha Elma.

I never really worried about my pink being in the refrigerator. I never had it dye. I used to keep them in a sock in my refrigerator to keep them a little warmer. Oh, the stories I could tell about people asking me why I have a sock in my refrigerator.

Edited by SHROOMSISAY01 (11/16/20 02:07 PM)

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