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Connected
Stranger
Registered: 07/29/11
Posts: 6
Last seen: 5 years, 6 months
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First flush six shrooms; second has only one!
#25244718 - 06/02/18 03:56 PM (5 years, 10 months ago) |
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Forgive me - I bought a kit. I'm not very experienced.
My problem is a poor cube harvest. Please could some kind soul suggest what mistake I made?
Colonisation was slow - took about 9 weeks. Probably had it too warm for the first four weeks at 30oC; then I dropped it to 27oC and things seemed to speed up but not much. Due to this I birthed perhaps a little before everything was fully colonised. I didn't get any contam, not that I can see anyway. There's just a little bluing in one corner of the cake but I'm fairly sure it's not contam. In the fruiting chamber, RH was monitored and maintained at 90-95%. Air temperature varied from 23-27oC, which was as cool as I could get the room, with continuous fresh air exchange via a couple of open vents. There was daylight but no direct sunlight. After birthing it took about 7 days for the first signs of fruit. Once they were growing, they grew quickly. Three days later one veil was looking loose, so I harvested six shrooms and a few aborts. I dunked (more accurately, floated) the cake in water at about 15oC for about 6 hours, topped up the vermiculite with water, then popped the cake back in the fruiting chamber. Three days later, and there now is a single shroom growing in the second flush. It's a decent size and growing quickly, but there's only one. The cake itself looks a little shrunken, as if the top part has dried out. But the chamber has definitely remained at 90-95% RH throughout.
I don't know if it's relevant but all the shrooms are growing from the bottom of the upturned cake, through the casing and moist vermiculite. Nothing is growing from the clear, white sides or top. I initially assumed this was because (idiot!) I didn't actually birth the cake. I just took off the lid, with the casing layer still on top. It took four days before I realised, turned it over, and slid it out of the tub onto some moist verm. Shrooms appeared from what was by then the bottom, through the casing and verm in the birthing tub, three days after that.
I don't know what to do so I've started misting the cake, but it doesn't seem to be helping.
What's the problem, o wise ones? Sorry if this has been answered before. I did search and read six or so posts, but didn't find anything.
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r.lutece
gave Columbia her wings.
Registered: 09/06/15
Posts: 745
Loc: ∅
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Re: First flush six shrooms; second has only one! [Re: Connected]
#25244747 - 06/02/18 04:15 PM (5 years, 10 months ago) |
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It's reeeally hard to give advice on anything growing without any pictures. Since you've already made your first big noob mistake (buy a kit; don't worry, lots of us started the same way), your next lesson is this: include pictures whenever possible.
From your description, 9 weeks is really long, and 30°C shouldn't be slowing down your myc. What CAN slow down your myc in higher temps is bacteria or other contams, which you most likely have, given that you started with a kit. I'm guessing it was spore injection to rye?
You don't need to worry about maintaining such a specific RH; it's more important that you mist and fan as needed for your cakes. If you didn't really dunk them (floating doesn't quite count; there's a reason you have to weigh cakes down for PF Tek) and they look like they're dried out, then they probably needed more misting.
It sounds like part of the reason you're seeing shrooms from the now-bottom of your cake is because that verm is helping retain more moisture than at the top. It might even be helping to create a little microclimate down there for better pinning, but that's hard to say without a picture. Give it another (proper) dunk after you harvest this flush and you might see another, but it sounds like there were bacterial issues from the start and that it just plain didn't see enough moisture.
-------------------- One goes into an experiment knowing one might fail. But one does not undertake an experiment knowing one HAS failed.
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elasticaltiger
Like Tigers in Coitus
Registered: 06/24/13
Posts: 8,438
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Re: First flush six shrooms; second has only one! [Re: Connected]
#25245267 - 06/02/18 11:05 PM (5 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Connected said: Forgive me - I bought a kit. I'm not very experienced.
My problem is a poor cube harvest. Please could some kind soul suggest what mistake I made?
You basically answered your question with your first sentence. Buying a kit does not guarantee you mushrooms. Studying does.
You could have just got some crap genetics. What was the name of the strain?
You birthed before full colonization. Thats never good.
We need to see a picture of your setup and everything to really diagnose here. Your cakes could have been bacterial. You may not have been getting enough fresh air. You could have benefitted from misting them regularly. If they are bluing thats a sign of drying out.
Pictures will be able to say everything to me that you can't.
-------------------- First time growing cakes? DON'T make a Shotgun Fruiting Chamber The Shmuvbox. - The Old TC's Like it Afraid to Start Growing From Your Own Prints? Drop it Like a Tiger! No Pouring. No Syringes. No Cutting. No flaming. No Contamination. No Bullshit. "The best thing to do while your waiting is to start more stuff. I usually got so much happening that I have tossed projects simply because I didn't have time for them. -Pastywhite QFT Pastywhite's Easy Agar Tek (PastyPlates) Tiger Drop Video Demos By munchauzen Van Gogh would’ve sold more than one painting if he’d put tigers in them.―Bill Watterson EZEKIEL 23:20
Edited by elasticaltiger (06/02/18 11:07 PM)
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Connected
Stranger
Registered: 07/29/11
Posts: 6
Last seen: 5 years, 6 months
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Re: First flush six shrooms; second has only one! [Re: Connected]
#25245452 - 06/03/18 01:58 AM (5 years, 10 months ago) |
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Thanks for both responses. Just for the insight, the reasons for buying the kit were:
- I don't have anywhere I can install a laminar flow hood - I doubted I could do hygiene better than someone who does it for a living - the necessary gear is expensive compared to buying a kit - some of the required items I couldn't find online anyway - I couldn't figure out to do some parts of it, like putting air filters into jar lids
But I promise to have a fresh look at it before I try again. There is plenty of information online and actually I have a book that covers it in some detail, so, I should perhaps not be so lazy.
In the mean-time, I've uploaded photos. The black tray contains a layer of water, which is the main thing keeping the humidity up.
I'm a bit confused about the misting. The resources I checked said never to mist the cake directly, but to mist the container. The mycelium can wick the moisture straight out of the air, said the resource. But I haven't been misting the container, since I had no trouble maintaining the humidity at 90-95% RH, so misting the container wouldn't have achieved anything. But right now I'm thinking that not misting the cake was a mistake.
With regards to fanning, I haven't been doing that either, simply because I have two vents on the container lid that are permanently open. Pretty sure you could keep a mouse in there with no ill effects so it didn't seem necessary. That said, the lid has been off probably once a day anyway whilst I do things like check the history on the hygrometer, make sure there is still enough water in the tray, and look at my beauties. (RH goes back up to 90% within a minute or so of replacing the lid).
No doubt you are going to tell me I'm an idiot...
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kanemush
Grumpy
Registered: 12/07/17
Posts: 1,547
Last seen: 1 day, 38 minutes
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Re: First flush six shrooms; second has only one! [Re: Connected]
#25245459 - 06/03/18 02:04 AM (5 years, 10 months ago) |
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If you bought a kit then contact them otherwise read up on teks and its not that expensive.
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elasticaltiger
Like Tigers in Coitus
Registered: 06/24/13
Posts: 8,438
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Re: First flush six shrooms; second has only one! [Re: kanemush]
#25245480 - 06/03/18 02:22 AM (5 years, 10 months ago) |
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Those are dry.
You need to mist them regularly. They are pinning on the bottom because the microclimate is perfect there. Your substrates are constantly giving off moisture (drying out) and between the bottom and the substrate that moisture is creating an area of high humidity that make growing ideal there.
Upload your pictures to the shroomery. Our software strips exif data to keep images anonymous.
Can we see a picture of the chamber?
You don't need laminar flow to inoculate mushrooms.
You don't even need a pressure cooker.
There is nothing you need for growing shrooms [other than spores] that can't be bought at walmart.
-------------------- First time growing cakes? DON'T make a Shotgun Fruiting Chamber The Shmuvbox. - The Old TC's Like it Afraid to Start Growing From Your Own Prints? Drop it Like a Tiger! No Pouring. No Syringes. No Cutting. No flaming. No Contamination. No Bullshit. "The best thing to do while your waiting is to start more stuff. I usually got so much happening that I have tossed projects simply because I didn't have time for them. -Pastywhite QFT Pastywhite's Easy Agar Tek (PastyPlates) Tiger Drop Video Demos By munchauzen Van Gogh would’ve sold more than one painting if he’d put tigers in them.―Bill Watterson EZEKIEL 23:20
Edited by elasticaltiger (06/03/18 02:24 AM)
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Connected
Stranger
Registered: 07/29/11
Posts: 6
Last seen: 5 years, 6 months
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Re: First flush six shrooms; second has only one! [Re: elasticaltiger]
#25245501 - 06/03/18 02:45 AM (5 years, 10 months ago) |
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Here's the chamber
If you're thinking that the sides don't have condensation on them, that's because the room is warmer than the chamber - it's hot here and I can't get the room any cooler. But inside, RH is >90%.
Thanks for the explanation. I will mist regularly now, directly onto the cake. Once this flush is harvested (there are now two shrooms!) I will weigh the cake down and dunk properly.
I have a second cake ready to birth. Figured my first would probably fail, so did two a couple of weeks apart.
Re the substrate - the kit didn't actually provide that information but it looks like a brown flour to me.
Re the strains - one is labelled Ecuador, the other is labelled B+. But because I'm an idiot, I'm not sure now which is which.
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elasticaltiger
Like Tigers in Coitus
Registered: 06/24/13
Posts: 8,438
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Re: First flush six shrooms; second has only one! [Re: Connected]
#25245513 - 06/03/18 03:03 AM (5 years, 10 months ago) |
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Im going to bed but that information about misting the container is bunk.. You want to mist your substrate directly. Gently (very fine) but directly.
You can literally grow shrooms on your kitchen counter with no fruiting chamber just by misting often.
Your fruiting chamber is so big and airy and has nothing to hold humidity other than the substrates. youd be better off popping that substrate into something like a plastic shoebox. When the chamber is really large and the sub is small, the sub will dry out fast. In a chamber the size of yours you may as well be fruiting in open air. Misting regularly should compensate for this.
-------------------- First time growing cakes? DON'T make a Shotgun Fruiting Chamber The Shmuvbox. - The Old TC's Like it Afraid to Start Growing From Your Own Prints? Drop it Like a Tiger! No Pouring. No Syringes. No Cutting. No flaming. No Contamination. No Bullshit. "The best thing to do while your waiting is to start more stuff. I usually got so much happening that I have tossed projects simply because I didn't have time for them. -Pastywhite QFT Pastywhite's Easy Agar Tek (PastyPlates) Tiger Drop Video Demos By munchauzen Van Gogh would’ve sold more than one painting if he’d put tigers in them.―Bill Watterson EZEKIEL 23:20
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PussyFart
Retired Cultivation Extrodinaire
Registered: 04/08/12
Posts: 22,502
Loc: Orbiting Earth
Last seen: 3 months, 3 days
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Re: First flush six shrooms; second has only one! [Re: elasticaltiger]
#25245517 - 06/03/18 03:07 AM (5 years, 10 months ago) |
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I suggest following a more up to date tek, there are tons of links in my signature....start reading.
-------------------- THIS HOBBY IS NOT FOR THE IMPATIENT! PLEASE BE PATIENT, DON'T BE A PATIENT! A Tale of 10 Isolates, GT Cluster Clone Monotubs, RR's Let's Grow Mushrooms DVD, SGFC(Shotgun Fruiting Chamber), Monotub Tek, Damion5050's Coir Tek, TL's Tek List, Frank's Tek List, EvilMushroom666's Pasteurization Tek, How It Should & Shouldn't Look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE *** *** AFGHAN KUSH GROW LOG *** ***
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mushroomnate
Pstranger
Registered: 05/17/17
Posts: 3,100
Last seen: 13 days, 17 hours
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Re: First flush six shrooms; second has only one! [Re: Connected]
#25245871 - 06/03/18 08:47 AM (5 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Connected said: Thanks for both responses. Just for the insight, the reasons for buying the kit were:
- I don't have anywhere I can install a laminar flow hood - I doubted I could do hygiene better than someone who does it for a living - the necessary gear is expensive compared to buying a kit - some of the required items I couldn't find online anyway - I couldn't figure out to do some parts of it, like putting air filters into jar lids
All of the above is unnecessary to grow a decent batch of mushrooms.I get everything from the Walmart or other grocery/home store. Cheap too. Do some research.(a lot of it) Here are a couple links that I like to get started. Bod's Easy AF cheapest way to get started TEK Updated PF-Tek Guide 2017 Edition
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Connected
Stranger
Registered: 07/29/11
Posts: 6
Last seen: 5 years, 6 months
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Re: First flush six shrooms; second has only one! [Re: elasticaltiger]
#25253369 - 06/07/18 02:41 AM (5 years, 10 months ago) |
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Hey, elasticaltiger, I just wanted to follow up on the result of following your advice. Whoa! That shroom I showed you grew into the biggest I've ever had. First time I've had to slice one because it wouldn't fit in the dryer. And the scent! I have to tell you about the scent . Normally the smell of these shrooms makes me faintly nauseous, like if I had to smell them for more than a few seconds at a time I might throw up. But this one, first time ever, smells sweet enough to put on a salad. How did that happen? And a new flush got started on its own without actually dunking, so I'm going to let them grow and keep misting. They're still growing from the bottom, but hey, it's a flush, so I don't really care where they grow from as long as they grow.
The second cake is now in the fruiting chamber also, so we'll see how it does with some better treatment!
What I realise now is that my open vents were the problem. My RH was too low. RH varies from the bottom of the chamber to the top. I was measuring it near the bottom, where it was fine, but up near the vents RH was at the mercy of the weather. A chamber this size has enough fresh air that venting twice daily by briefly removing the lid is plenty, so the vents are closed now. I've been misting regularly like you said, with a fine spray, but also, because I can't be there the whole time to mist, I put a battery-powered piezoelectric humidifier in the chamber. This has also had the effect of lowering the temperature a few degrees.
Nice. Thanks for the help. I am indebted.
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