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OfflinePugachevsRevolt
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Registered: 12/08/12
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Using recent psilocybin research to calculate dosage
    #25124844 - 04/09/18 03:45 AM (5 years, 11 months ago)

Hello all,

So I am about to take my first proper trip in my adult life after dabbling for a couple of years aged 12-14 (you could purchase "fresh" and "unprepared" shrooms legally back then) and then abstaining for 14 years with the exception of a small dose ~5 years ago (perhaps 1.5 to 2g dry) which didn't have the desired effects at all in terms of profundity & power of the trip. I read lots of posts on the subject but would like to know if basing my dose on a John Hopkins study conducted in 2016 is a good idea.

Pasted the relevant excerpts and calculations below but long story short, if I weigh 140 lbs, have average sensitivity to psilocybin and took 36.4g of fresh average potency cubes, would that be the right kind of dosage to get to level 3 or 4?


EXCERPTS FROM PSYCHEDELIC TIMES CONCERNING JOHN HOPKINS DOSAGE STUDY

"18 healthy volunteers were given four tiers of psilocybin dose and encouraged to lie down in a comfortable environment with headphones...The highest dose tested was 30 mg of psilocybin per 70 kg participant weight (mg per kg is a typical clinical measure of dose for drugs of all kinds). This is equivalent to a 155 lb individual taking slightly less than 5 g of dried psilocybe cubensis, a typical psychedelic mushroom—quite a strong dose. Four out of five volunteers receiving this dose reported the experience was one of the top five most spiritually significant events of their lives, but a third of participants also reported a significant psychological struggle. At this higher dose, experiencing fear, anxiety, and stress was more likely.

At the next highest dose of 20 mg per 70 kg (equivalent to roughly 3 g of dried psilocybe cubensis), all volunteers reported positive experiences, and only one experienced any negativity. This trend continued for lower doses, with slightly less profundity of experience but still significant, long-lasting effects. Over a year later, the researchers followed up with volunteers and found that the vast majority still thought that their experiences were in the top five most spiritually significant of their lives.
"

So 3g dry was enough for a ~155 lb person (with no history of psychedelic use) to have a good but likely less life changing experience and 5g resulted in a similar person having a powerful trip but with some instances of "significant psychological struggle".

So go between the two doses right?

300/155 = ~1.94mg per lb.
500/155 = ~3.26mg per lb.

A difference of 1.32mg per lb between the two doses I'm interested in.

Divide that by 2 and you get the middle point so I'd add 0.66mg to the 1.94mg and end up with 2.6mg per lb for an in-between dose.

SO weighing 140 lbs I would take 3.64g of dry cubensis or 36.4 fresh in the hope of having a strong and significant but not utterly horrifying trip.

I know this isn't science and you cannot be exact as there are so many variables and potency can vary so much but I'd appreciate any feedback or insights that anyone can offer.

Cheers guys, thanks for taking the time :thumbup:

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OfflineSutty86
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Re: Using recent psilocybin research to calculate dosage [Re: PugachevsRevolt]
    #25124854 - 04/09/18 04:06 AM (5 years, 11 months ago)

I think your thinking too much into it.
Take 2.5g and enjoy


--------------------
Looking for PENIS ENVY.
Have spores to trade:mushroom2:

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OfflinePugachevsRevolt
Rebellious Serf

Registered: 12/08/12
Posts: 21
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Re: Using recent psilocybin research to calculate dosage [Re: Sutty86]
    #25124862 - 04/09/18 04:26 AM (5 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Sutty86 said:
I think your thinking too much into it.
Take 2.5g and enjoy




Thanks man I totally get that response. Didn't want my initial post to be any longer than it already was so to elaborate further on my circumstances and intent: I am trying to use this trip to alleviate depression / anxiety ("reset" my brain / shake up the Default Mode Network) rather than for recreation.

The recent Imperial College London study corroborated other research (and I guess Terrance McKenna) in that one-off large doses can be helpful in achieving those ends. This has made me reluctant to experiment with smaller or average doses first, especially given my experience 5 or so years ago with 1.5 to 2g.

So in short, I can't help but overthink it! Most people with clinical anxiety / depression would likely play it safe or maybe not take mushies at all but for those of us that want to plunge into the deep end of things do you really think 2.5g is likely to suffice?

Edited by PugachevsRevolt (04/09/18 04:32 AM)

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OfflineSutty86
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Re: Using recent psilocybin research to calculate dosage [Re: PugachevsRevolt]
    #25125018 - 04/09/18 07:20 AM (5 years, 11 months ago)

Remember the most important thing is setting and being in a good frame of mind,
Just don't be dumb and take 4g plus first time as you will be in for a shock.
Honestly 2.5g of cubes is a perfect dose


--------------------
Looking for PENIS ENVY.
Have spores to trade:mushroom2:

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Offlineberjohansen
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Re: Using recent psilocybin research to calculate dosage [Re: Sutty86]
    #25125272 - 04/09/18 09:31 AM (5 years, 11 months ago)

I did 2g’s of liberty caps wich should be dead on 20mg after reading that exact study.. was a great trip with beautifull cev’s and some good lessons... will work towards 30mg next time. You could make tea of half a g to a g more than you aim for and redose after an hour or so if you feel like abit more.. will stretch out the trip a bit aswell.. all the best :smile:

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OfflineSutty86
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Re: Using recent psilocybin research to calculate dosage [Re: berjohansen]
    #25125424 - 04/09/18 10:34 AM (5 years, 11 months ago)

I don't agree about weight of the person to grams of mushrooms.
I'm 110kg and trip off 1.5g


--------------------
Looking for PENIS ENVY.
Have spores to trade:mushroom2:

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Offlineberjohansen
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Re: Using recent psilocybin research to calculate dosage [Re: Sutty86]
    #25125453 - 04/09/18 10:45 AM (5 years, 11 months ago)

Forgot thatone.. no i dont think weight is that big of a deal when it comes to dosing. Think it varies more from person to person than bodyweight. Pretty sure i was into level 4 on 2g’ of liberty caps, wich would be 3g’s of cubes or something..

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OfflineSutty86
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Re: Using recent psilocybin research to calculate dosage [Re: berjohansen]
    #25125469 - 04/09/18 10:51 AM (5 years, 11 months ago)

Liberty caps are more potent gram for gram with cubes .
I think 3g of libs is similar to 5g cubes but different sort of trip....

I've not yet done libs but now live in a county where it's like new Zealand sheep every fucking were I have a field over the road full of sheep and lambs,I'm looking forward to the first frost


--------------------
Looking for PENIS ENVY.
Have spores to trade:mushroom2:

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OfflineEnkidu
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Re: Using recent psilocybin research to calculate dosage [Re: Sutty86] * 1
    #25125636 - 04/09/18 11:58 AM (5 years, 11 months ago)

Different people react differently.

Depends on dose, and possibly metabolism, and your mind.

Different people will react differently from the same dose simply because of their mind.

It is always safe to start small and work up.

A first dose at 2.5g may be a good start and then if you want to go deeper, bump up to your 3.5.

But your math and science actually seems to hold solid if you chose that dose.

I think that dose would be good for what you describe.

I would say youre weight, assuming that means fast metabolism, and that dose, will give you that level of experience. And will be strong and significatn.

If you as mention, want to go deep, then I would skip 2.5.

What you seem to be searching for sounds like 3.5 and above.

Based on the limited info I would say you will be fine and would encourage you to, based on the experience, venture even deeper to the 5g range.

But if you want to be safe, test 2.5 to make sure you react favorably.

2.5g does have potential to be strong, just depends on the person.. and as mentioned... possibly metabolism (you metabolize the substance and break it down quicker resulting in a larger amount being ingested quicker, as opposed to slower and drawn out, is my theory)


--------------------
Within You , Without You


:mushroom2::levitate::mushroom2:

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OfflineMoonMush
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Re: Using recent psilocybin research to calculate dosage [Re: Sutty86] * 1
    #25126568 - 04/09/18 06:31 PM (5 years, 11 months ago)

Trip off 1.5g? Damn man Im so very jealous. I am considered a "freak" by many friends as my lowest dose I start at is 4 g and goes up to 20g.

Im a firm believer that if you have traveled to distant lands and multi-universes, experienced the depths of dmt, and are confident meeting god face to face, you too would be able to take 10g of mushies and be mighty fine.

It comes down to your confidence, your spirit and its intentions going in, your ability to let go and never fight, your attitude and "warmness", and some others....etc

Like wtf do you even feel off 1.5g? Thats like my microdose haha

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OfflineEnkidu
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Registered: 07/09/16
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Re: Using recent psilocybin research to calculate dosage [Re: MoonMush]
    #25126994 - 04/09/18 08:58 PM (5 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

MoonMush said:
Like wtf do you even feel off 1.5g? Thats like my microdose haha




:lol: I prefer .2-.3 myself for microdosing.

4-20g, that's some heavy tripping


--------------------
Within You , Without You


:mushroom2::levitate::mushroom2:

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OfflinePugachevsRevolt
Rebellious Serf

Registered: 12/08/12
Posts: 21
Last seen: 5 years, 11 months
Re: Using recent psilocybin research to calculate dosage [Re: Enkidu]
    #25127442 - 04/10/18 02:58 AM (5 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

berjohansen said:
I did 2g’s of liberty caps wich should be dead on 20mg after reading that exact study.. was a great trip with beautifull cev’s and some good lessons... will work towards 30mg next time. You could make tea of half a g to a g more than you aim for and redose after an hour or so if you feel like abit more.. will stretch out the trip a bit aswell.. all the best :smile:




Great to hear that you had such a nice time on the lower of the doses and I like the idea of increasing dose within an hour depending on how I'm feeling. Eat 25g fresh, see how I'm doing and then have 0.5g-1g dry ready in capsules sounds like a plan. Cheers mate :thumbup:


Quote:

Enkidu said:
Different people react differently.

Depends on dose, and possibly metabolism, and your mind.

Different people will react differently from the same dose simply because of their mind.

It is always safe to start small and work up.

A first dose at 2.5g may be a good start and then if you want to go deeper, bump up to your 3.5.

But your math and science actually seems to hold solid if you chose that dose.

I think that dose would be good for what you describe.

I would say youre weight, assuming that means fast metabolism, and that dose, will give you that level of experience. And will be strong and significatn.

If you as mention, want to go deep, then I would skip 2.5.

What you seem to be searching for sounds like 3.5 and above.

Based on the limited info I would say you will be fine and would encourage you to, based on the experience, venture even deeper to the 5g range.

But if you want to be safe, test 2.5 to make sure you react favorably.

2.5g does have potential to be strong, just depends on the person.. and as mentioned... possibly metabolism (you metabolize the substance and break it down quicker resulting in a larger amount being ingested quicker, as opposed to slower and drawn out, is my theory)





Awesome post, really reassuring. I do think 3.5 is where I want to end up but this way sounds more sensible and conducive to a better mindset entering the trip. I actually stopped my SSRIs 12 days ago (Citalopram aka Celexa) and despite tapering from 40mg to 20mg to 10mg over about 3 months I have still been even moodier than normal. So with that and the likelihood of a high metabolism, starting at 2.5 then supplementing with 0.5 to 1g within an hour seems like the best way to hedge my bets.

There's a lot of info out there about how trips can be dulled in the days and weeks following SSRI cessation; some say it shouldn't be an issue once it's no longer in your system, others that the down-regulation of serotonin receptors from prolonged SSRI use can dull trips for months to come. I'm sure it just varies from person to person but it's not helping my 'set', although hopefully I'll be pleasantly surprised after ingesting the 2.5 and if not I have the option of either going higher or taking a fast acting benzo to bring matters to an end and hit the sack (to try again when more time has passed) :thumbup:

Edited by PugachevsRevolt (04/10/18 03:01 AM)

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OfflinePugachevsRevolt
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Registered: 12/08/12
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Re: Using recent psilocybin research to calculate dosage [Re: PugachevsRevolt]
    #25127445 - 04/10/18 03:04 AM (5 years, 11 months ago)

As far as 'setting' goes, I am big into my music and I'm hoping having a great setting prepared with plenty of appropriate music (= The Doors / Yawning Man for me) and some interesting lights and plants to focus on if I want to open my eyes or need to calm down, will all mitigate against the near certainty of me entering the trip with a less than ideal mindset. I don't have a trained psychotherapist to counsel me but I do have someone I trust who'll be at hand in the next room.

I'm going to see how my day pans out but I would like to do this tonight. I'll check back for any other feedback / ideas before then and will definitely write up a report after the deed has been done :smile:

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OfflineEnkidu
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Re: Using recent psilocybin research to calculate dosage [Re: PugachevsRevolt]
    #25127472 - 04/10/18 03:46 AM (5 years, 11 months ago)

Awesome man, can't wait to hear about it, hope it goes well for you :super:

I think you'll have a good time and hopefully they help.

Just remember, they're completely safe, embrace any and all feelings and thoughts.

2.5 shouldn't be rough at all imo though

Hopefully it's a beautiful experience :super:


--------------------
Within You , Without You


:mushroom2::levitate::mushroom2:

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OfflineBlergs
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Re: Using recent psilocybin research to calculate dosage [Re: Enkidu]
    #25128034 - 04/10/18 10:23 AM (5 years, 11 months ago)

Good luck!! :laugh:

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OfflinePugachevsRevolt
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Re: Using recent psilocybin research to calculate dosage [Re: Blergs]
    #25143082 - 04/16/18 11:13 AM (5 years, 11 months ago)

I ended up doing 30g fresh and then 0.5 dry an hour later and having a really good time, despite only experiencing quite limited effects.

I waited for dark and chewed up the 30g fresh. Within the first 30 minutes I felt some subtle effects along but knew by the time an hour was up that I'd be wanting the extra 0.5g. By the time the whole dose had kicked in the music sounded incredible and I experienced a rush of quite powerful euphoria. It felt good to be re-acquainting myself with mushrooms and I got lots of cliched but positive messages from the shrooms. Visuals were mild, limited to moving patterns with eyes closed and stuff in my environment being enhanced like bubbling lava lamp / intensely burning kinda epic candle / breathing plants.

As I became more immersed in the music I spent most of my time with my eyemask on letting my mind take me to different places. At some point I blacked out and when I came to I'd missed a big chunk of the album and felt a lot less 'stoned' than I had before. The next day I had a great afterglow feeling and felt more relaxed & with a quieter mind but these positive effects vanished quite rapidly as the week progressed.

I think 3.5 is supposed to be a moderate dose and even if my cubes aren't the most potent I would've expected to get to the point of having quite vivid / intense 3 dimensional closed eye visuals on that kind of dose, leading me to the conclusion that 12 days wasn't long enough off SSRIs after 5 years of use to fully escape their trip 'blunting' effects.

So all in all I am very pleased to have had a nice experience with what felt like an old friend - the concern I had about a horrifying trip is gone and I feel more open to whatever the next trip reveals. I am eager to repeat it as soon as enough time has passed for my tolerance to have reset. I think 5g will be the minimum dose based on my experience at 3.5 and the likelihood of continued SSRI blunting as my serotonin system slowly adjusts.

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OfflineButcherBrown
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Registered: 01/25/18
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Re: Using recent psilocybin research to calculate dosage [Re: PugachevsRevolt]
    #25143915 - 04/16/18 05:53 PM (5 years, 11 months ago)

It seems like ssri's dull mushroom trips. I personally use a wide verity of dosses depending on the situation. I have kids so if we have a sitter and my wife doesn't mind I'm going for a rocket ride.(3-6)g If the kids are going to be home I'll eat 2g and chill out. I think both are useful for depression. The experience of a "Rocket Ride" shows me positive and negative and is usually a profound learning experience. I've had some great 2g trips also. Mellow, lovely, and enlightening trips. I wouldn't take them like a prescription and try to control them. Let them do the work. You are going to start with a high tolerance because of the ssris so play with your dose. You'll figure it out.


--------------------
ALL THIS PAIN IS AN ILLUSION....


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Offlinefluorescent
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Re: Using recent psilocybin research to calculate dosage [Re: ButcherBrown]
    #25148764 - 04/18/18 05:37 PM (5 years, 11 months ago)

35g wet was my very first dosage, half of which was lemon tekked. The other half I simply ate. Of the doses I've had, that was the easiest trip and it had the greatest benefit to weight ratio. I will say that the higher doses (5.5 and 7) seem to be getting down into a bunch of the built up mental and emotional junk and beginning to clear it out, whereas in my experience the 35g dose was "only" euphoric.

Cheers -- I'm glad you had a positive experience!

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OfflineSivarted
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Re: Using recent psilocybin research to calculate dosage [Re: Sutty86]
    #25247864 - 06/04/18 11:18 AM (5 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Sutty86 said:
Remember the most important thing is setting and being in a good frame of mind,
Just don't be dumb and take 4g plus first time as you will be in for a shock.
Honestly 2.5g of cubes is a perfect dose




"In for a shock" is kind of the point for this type of usage.  :smile:

But yeah, 2.5-3ish is probably a good middle ground.

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OfflineAwakenToTruth
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Re: Using recent psilocybin research to calculate dosage [Re: PugachevsRevolt]
    #25248651 - 06/04/18 05:32 PM (5 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

PugachevsRevolt said:
Quote:

Sutty86 said:
I think your thinking too much into it.
Take 2.5g and enjoy




Thanks man I totally get that response. Didn't want my initial post to be any longer than it already was so to elaborate further on my circumstances and intent: I am trying to use this trip to alleviate depression / anxiety ("reset" my brain / shake up the Default Mode Network) rather than for recreation.

The recent Imperial College London study corroborated other research (and I guess Terrance McKenna) in that one-off large doses can be helpful in achieving those ends. This has made me reluctant to experiment with smaller or average doses first, especially given my experience 5 or so years ago with 1.5 to 2g.

So in short, I can't help but overthink it! Most people with clinical anxiety / depression would likely play it safe or maybe not take mushies at all but for those of us that want to plunge into the deep end of things do you really think 2.5g is likely to suffice?





In a similar situation myself. If you are set on taking a large dose a a good compromise seems to be 3.5g. Get that done then go for 5g.


--------------------
It's all delusion. We are wrong about everything. There is only one real thing.

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