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OfflineJMX9
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platos allegory of the cave
    #24156979 - 03/12/17 06:42 PM (7 years, 17 days ago)

if you have not seen it, google it. Its worth taking a look at.  Since the average person is a "prisoner" and can not "move their heads" do you think taking a phyc can instantly make a prisoner to at least be able to move their heads?  or does one have to already be moving their head to realize the pchyc state as consciousness expanding rather than just seeing pretty colors and tripping balls watching a movie or something? In my own opinion, people have to be al teast semi self conscious to gain a benefit from a trip.  I think this because all my friends trip with other people just to get messed up, I trip alone with no external stimuli to explore the depths of my mind.  For this reason, I think of myself as breaking free or already broke free of this prison and can see the people putting on the the shadow show.  Thoughts?

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InvisibleChRnZN
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Re: platos allegory of the cave [Re: JMX9]
    #24156988 - 03/12/17 06:47 PM (7 years, 17 days ago)

It might make you think about moving your head, but it won't necessarily.  Some people are inclined to do so with certain stimuli.

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Offlinezzripz
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Re: platos allegory of the cave [Re: JMX9] * 1
    #24159199 - 03/13/17 04:05 PM (7 years, 16 days ago)

Quote:

JMX9 said:
if you have not seen it, google it. Its worth taking a look at.  Since the average person is a "prisoner" and can not "move their heads" do you think taking a phyc can instantly make a prisoner to at least be able to move their heads?  or does one have to already be moving their head to realize the pchyc state as consciousness expanding rather than just seeing pretty colors and tripping balls watching a movie or something? In my own opinion, people have to be al teast semi self conscious to gain a benefit from a trip.  I think this because all my friends trip with other people just to get messed up, I trip alone with no external stimuli to explore the depths of my mind.  For this reason, I think of myself as breaking free or already broke free of this prison and can see the people putting on the the shadow show.  Thoughts?




I know people often us Plato's allegory of the cave as a kind of illustration to mean what you mean, but in actuality Plato's 'vision' is very elitist, and not psychedelic friendly, and is even anti-nature!

Plato's allegory is really meaning an 'abstract' reality of 'ideas' that he believed only those with a higher intellect that he thought he had, as a 'philosopher-king', and others of that ilk could understand. He wasn't meaning waking up to a world of ecstatic sensuous connection with nature that many who take psychedelics experience, but a dry imageless abstract kind of 'ideal' realm he thought was superior to nature because to him this abstract realm of ideas was never-changing (static) whilst the natural world was always changing and thus, for him, inferior.

This author really reveals where he was coming from: Reading Plato’s Allegory of the Cave as Matricide and Theacide by Carol P. Christ

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Invisiblemt cleverest
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Re: platos allegory of the cave [Re: zzripz] * 1
    #24159845 - 03/13/17 07:30 PM (7 years, 16 days ago)


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OfflineDuncan Rowhl
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Re: platos allegory of the cave [Re: mt cleverest] * 1
    #24159991 - 03/13/17 08:11 PM (7 years, 16 days ago)

It's my belief that a person has to be willing to move their head from the comfort of ignorance, where 'proof' only takes the form of things that they already know.

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Offlinegraceful dragon
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Re: platos allegory of the cave [Re: mt cleverest] * 1
    #24160092 - 03/13/17 08:38 PM (7 years, 16 days ago)

Quote:

mt cleverest said:





Thank you.

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Invisiblesudly
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Re: platos allegory of the cave [Re: graceful dragon]
    #24160673 - 03/14/17 01:57 AM (7 years, 16 days ago)

It's corporate stenography folks.


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.


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OfflineJMX9
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Re: platos allegory of the cave [Re: sudly]
    #24161505 - 03/14/17 12:24 PM (7 years, 15 days ago)

Quote:

Duncan Rowhl said:
It's my belief that a person has to be willing to move their head from the comfort of ignorance, where 'proof' only takes the form of things that they already know.




exactly, some people may live most of their lives with out even knowing it's possible to move their heads.  After all those years of living in ignorance and the realization occurs to them that they can move their heads they choose not to.  Most likely because they know they'll have to reevaluate their lives and rather stay in their comfort zones. Then continue their favorite things to do like watch the news and taking medication

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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: platos allegory of the cave [Re: JMX9]
    #24162960 - 03/14/17 09:25 PM (7 years, 15 days ago)

Here's one cynical take with a post-modernist twist.

vs.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

Edited by MarkostheGnostic (03/15/17 02:52 PM)

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Offlinegraceful dragon
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Re: platos allegory of the cave [Re: sudly]
    #24163159 - 03/14/17 11:17 PM (7 years, 15 days ago)

Quote:

sudly said:
It's corporate stenography folks.





wait 'til you see the beautiful things McKenna was talking about. :sun: :smile:

altho' i know you probably already know :sun: :smile:

hehe

do i smile too much? just kidding. 


i could mention what i am referencing, but i suppose i'll leave it for to wonder.

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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: platos allegory of the cave [Re: graceful dragon]
    #24163237 - 03/14/17 11:54 PM (7 years, 15 days ago)

tell me


--------------------
Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps

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Offlinegraceful dragon
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Re: platos allegory of the cave [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #24163258 - 03/15/17 12:02 AM (7 years, 15 days ago)

Words... the world is made of words, he said, and when you know which words it's made of, you can make it more what you want.

Stephen Hawking said the same thing about physics... as we get to know more about how the world works, we begin to learn how to affect it, ...

He phrased this interestingly, as in, -- with a hint perhaps to how thought creates the world...

But Terence believed as the Egyptians did, in the great power of the word.

Zelazny, the author, would be another one to check out on the subject.

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Invisiblemt cleverest
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Re: platos allegory of the cave [Re: graceful dragon]
    #24164461 - 03/15/17 02:37 PM (7 years, 14 days ago)

Zelazny huh? I just bought Chronicles of Amber. I heard it was an epic read.

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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: platos allegory of the cave [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #24164515 - 03/15/17 03:02 PM (7 years, 14 days ago)

sudly = markos ? :eek:

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Offlinegraceful dragon
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Re: platos allegory of the cave [Re: mt cleverest]
    #24164582 - 03/15/17 03:27 PM (7 years, 14 days ago)

After reading hundreds of the best, including Wilhelm Meister by Goethe, Sonnets to Orpheus by Rilke, (tr. C.F. MacIntyre),  Savitri,  I mean, a lot of others over the years... Then re-reading Amber, about a hundred times I felt, was the best thing I'd ever read...
I re-read it on my phone on a nice little thing while camping out by the lake..  Before that, I'd read most of it 15 years earlier, as a kid...
And re-read it later... and eventually most of the rest of his novels... A phenomenal time, that was...
Have fun :smile:

I would read a lot of them in the woods, too, (although not of course, exclusively)...

wake up, pet my cat, drink a milk-coffee and maybe something, then go to the park or out to the woods... quite lovely.
I'm rambling - but yeah, Zelazny was definitely in on, or keen and knowledgeable on magic, and the magic of words especially...
I learned a few years back, how music contains awakening potential --
it can contain spiritual wisdom, even,.. psychic insights and stuff-- Celtic (Planxty et al), Bothy Band,
and Reggae are two good examples.. ( 'Music can get people to awaken, and if they can dance to their awakening, that's even better, too' - Peter Tosh )  [paraphrased]

Sister Carol as well, from that genre...  Well, it was after those, too, that I came to Zelazny again...
What to speak of Amma's bhajans along the way... (or after)

And Zelanzy is, naturally, of Polish and Irish descent, and uses a lot of -- he kinds of blends magic - folk lore and myth -
and also his own story-telling and style... but like, Tirna Nog'th, from the book, is quite similar in concept to an almost identically named - real - place in Ireland...

Anyway I'm rambling a bit... also, of course, sci-fi stuff that he likes... there's more in other novels of that. 
Anyway :smile:

Ones that contain a lot of psychic insights and stuff are also Bridge of Ashes ( one of his best, I read close to last ),
and others... by the time I got to The Black Throne, I was just slightly amazed. :smile:
Anyway, hope you enjoy, and hope I didn't write too much.
See ya

basically i'd say or describe it, you could fairly say it's a comprehensive, well, you'll see. hope you like it.
[edited, last line add and closer the spaces]

Edited by graceful dragon (03/15/17 04:16 PM)

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Invisiblemt cleverest
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Registered: 08/19/12
Posts: 2,348
Re: platos allegory of the cave [Re: graceful dragon]
    #24164693 - 03/15/17 04:19 PM (7 years, 14 days ago)

Very cool. hmm I was thinking of saving it for later but I might just have to get started on it now.:thumbup: Neil Gaiman seems to think highly of Zelazny too

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Offlinegraceful dragon
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Re: platos allegory of the cave [Re: mt cleverest]
    #24167977 - 03/16/17 07:03 PM (7 years, 13 days ago)

I like Neil Gaiman, and his wife... She did this Ted Talk;

and of course lots of great music: Good Day

God it's been a lovely day
Everything's been going my way

I took out the trash today and
I'm on fire.

Good Day


I'm not suggesting you get to line up
For questioning
but Please don't think about
the bridges you are burning
and are burning...
But even though you knew it from the start
I'd rather be a bitch than be an ordinary broken heart.

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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: platos allegory of the cave [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #24168687 - 03/16/17 11:05 PM (7 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

BlueCoyote said:
sudly = markos ? :eek:





Uh, no. I must have blinked his post. Negative hallucination when you don't see what's in front of you. Not in right mind, bad week.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Invisiblesudly
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Re: platos allegory of the cave [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #24168725 - 03/16/17 11:25 PM (7 years, 13 days ago)

Sudly = markos?


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.


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