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 Psilosopherr
A psilly goose
 
Registered: 02/15/12
Posts: 12,280
Last seen: 28 days, 13 hours
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 Sclerotia production write-up geared to the absolute beginner 
#23372036 - 06/23/16 12:11 AM (7 years, 9 months ago) |
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Tis but a rough draft seeking feedback.
The absolute beginners guide to truffle cultivation
Nothing new just making noob teks as clear/concise as possible.
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 Supalemonhaze
Spore syringe hater.
Registered: 10/02/15
Posts: 6,725
Loc: 12" down Europe's butthole
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 Re: Sclerotia production write-up geared to the absolute beginner [Re: Psilosopherr]
#23372346 - 06/23/16 03:53 AM (7 years, 9 months ago) |
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IIRC, galindoi is actually a mexicana sub species. Might wanna add other filters beside polyfill and SFDs. Tyvek and felt/ez-felt are both easier to use, less messy and less annoying than polyfill and they are cheap as dirt, a great filter for those who can't afford SFDs.
Would also change the PC time reccomendation to 90-120m. Some have trouble with bacteria with 90minute cycles. I understand this feels like splitting hairs but if you are targering this tek to newbies, you basically gotta spoon feed every bit of relevant info. (unless you want 100 newbies pming you  )
Now although it's a newb tek, agar should have preference over spore inoculation IMO. Agar is easy, and even if it looks difficult to someone trying to use it, if he can't keep an agar plate clean, chances are he won't get a clean jar either. I would emphasize that agar is the best way to go but spore syringe inoculation is do-able, even thought it's riskier. I would link pasty's no pour agar tek as well as the tiger drop tek. Those two are easy enough for any newb to pull off.
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Curious Shroomer
Noob
Registered: 05/19/16
Posts: 118
Loc: Germany
Last seen: 24 days, 23 hours
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Re: Sclerotia production write-up geared to the absolute beginner [Re: Supalemonhaze]
#23372613 - 06/23/16 06:51 AM (7 years, 9 months ago) |
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As a newb i was and still am a bit scared of Agar. As far as i read it should be easy but you need a SAB right? The Spore Syringe (or Vial) should be doable without.
But i will test out Agar the next time im going to inoculate some Jars.
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Supalemonhaze
Spore syringe hater.
Registered: 10/02/15
Posts: 6,725
Loc: 12" down Europe's butthole
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Re: Sclerotia production write-up geared to the absolute beginner [Re: Curious Shroomer]
#23372634 - 06/23/16 07:01 AM (7 years, 9 months ago) |
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One should still use a SAB with a syringe. Sure, you can do without it, I even used to do open air inoculations with a syringe and no SAB but mushroom cultivation is all about the success rate IMO. You can't really enjoy cultivation if you keep losing half your jars (not even with a 75% success rate).
No-pour teks like pasty's are easy as pie and IMO, every newb should start with agar. I have never made a grow via a spore inoculation straight to grains so far, and I definitely never will. I also had the worst track record anyone could have with a SAB, and I was still able to get some successful grows using agar back then. If I was able to do it, anyone can.
SHIPs are terribly undependable, your syringe can very easily tear a piece of silicone/rubber and contam your grains with it. I still have zero luck with SHIPs, even with the best sterile tek I've had to date, a flowhood as well as enough experience to grow confidently. I avoid syringes and especially ports as much as I can, if I have to use a syringe, I prefer to open the jar instead of using a SHIP.
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Psilosopherr
A psilly goose
Registered: 02/15/12
Posts: 12,280
Last seen: 28 days, 13 hours
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Re: Sclerotia production write-up geared to the absolute beginner [Re: Supalemonhaze]
#23373068 - 06/23/16 09:39 AM (7 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Supalemonhaze said:
IIRC, galindoi is actually a mexicana sub species. Might wanna add other filters beside polyfill and SFDs. Tyvek and felt/ez-felt are both easier to use, less messy and less annoying than polyfill and they are cheap as dirt, a great filter for those who can't afford SFDs.
Would also change the PC time reccomendation to 90-120m. Some have trouble with bacteria with 90minute cycles. I understand this feels like splitting hairs but if you are targering this tek to newbies, you basically gotta spoon feed every bit of relevant info. (unless you want 100 newbies pming you )
Now although it's a newb tek, agar should have preference over spore inoculation IMO. Agar is easy, and even if it looks difficult to someone trying to use it, if he can't keep an agar plate clean, chances are he won't get a clean jar either. I would emphasize that agar is the best way to go but spore syringe inoculation is do-able, even thought it's riskier. I would link pasty's no pour agar tek as well as the tiger drop tek. Those two are easy enough for any newb to pull off.
Very helpful response, thank you. Every one of those suggestions will be added in. (whats IIRC?) Is galindoi really not its own thing? People really shouldn't call it psilocybe galindoi then.
I originally wanted it to be as simple as prep, cook, innoc, harvest. Maybe I'll keep it that way and add pasty plates as an optional part. No pour plates really are easy enough for noobs, just gotta try to present it in a way that doesn't scare noobs away.
The only shitty part about using sclerotia producers as a noob tek is how indistinguishable from contams the mycelium is...agar would definitely help with that though.
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Supalemonhaze
Spore syringe hater.
Registered: 10/02/15
Posts: 6,725
Loc: 12" down Europe's butthole
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Re: Sclerotia production write-up geared to the absolute beginner [Re: Psilosopherr]
#23373102 - 06/23/16 09:48 AM (7 years, 9 months ago) |
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IIRC= If I remember correctly.
I thought it was it's own species as well, then I was told it wasn't. This is what the wiki says about it.
Quote:
Psilocybe atlantis is a rare psychedelic mushroom that contains psilocybin and psilocin as main active compounds. It is a close relative of Psilocybe mexicana and has been recorded only from Georgia.
It was mexicana at one point and became a "subspecies" over time. Why exactly is it called by a totally different name, I do not know. Maybe it has changed enough over the years and became too different to be called a mex sub-species. Many will argue that it is just a different variety of mex though, and I agree. Much like the Mex "A" or Mex "jalisco", or any cube when compared to another, in reality.
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filthyknees
no coincidence
Registered: 03/08/13
Posts: 6,283
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Re: Sclerotia production write-up geared to the absolute beginner [Re: Supalemonhaze]
#23373106 - 06/23/16 09:50 AM (7 years, 9 months ago) |
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It's mexicana. Forget the other stuff, that's the varieties and not species...
I'd add wbs is probably the worst choice of grain for sclerotia
--------------------
But if you're in a hurry, and really got to go
If you're in a hurry, might have to find out slow
That it's one thing to try and another to fly
You get there quicker just a step at a time
It's one thing to bark, another to bite
The show ain't over till you pack up at night
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Psilosopherr
A psilly goose
Registered: 02/15/12
Posts: 12,280
Last seen: 28 days, 13 hours
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Re: Sclerotia production write-up geared to the absolute beginner [Re: filthyknees]
#23373165 - 06/23/16 10:15 AM (7 years, 9 months ago) |
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True, my yields have been piss poor with WBS quarts. Whats good, I assume rye, oats, wheat, I heard rye grass seed works well which surprised me. RGS would be the easiest to find for noobies probly.
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filthyknees
no coincidence
Registered: 03/08/13
Posts: 6,283
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Re: Sclerotia production write-up geared to the absolute beginner [Re: Psilosopherr]
#23373180 - 06/23/16 10:20 AM (7 years, 9 months ago) |
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rhy oats and wheat are all better than wbs for sclerotia. check the thread growing stones in my journal for a compilation of quotes from some of the better sclerotia cultivators
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But if you're in a hurry, and really got to go
If you're in a hurry, might have to find out slow
That it's one thing to try and another to fly
You get there quicker just a step at a time
It's one thing to bark, another to bite
The show ain't over till you pack up at night
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Psilosopherr
A psilly goose
Registered: 02/15/12
Posts: 12,280
Last seen: 28 days, 13 hours
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Re: Sclerotia production write-up geared to the absolute beginner [Re: filthyknees]
#23373264 - 06/23/16 10:43 AM (7 years, 9 months ago) |
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wow what a journal entry, I've never seen any of these RR quotes. 
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guyute22
Ugly Pig
Registered: 07/27/15
Posts: 504
Last seen: 5 years, 8 months
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Re: Sclerotia production write-up geared to the absolute beginner [Re: Supalemonhaze]
#23373359 - 06/23/16 11:09 AM (7 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Supalemonhaze said:
IIRC= If I remember correctly.
I thought it was it's own species as well, then I was told it wasn't. This is what the wiki says about it.
Quote:
Psilocybe atlantis is a rare psychedelic mushroom that contains psilocybin and psilocin as main active compounds. It is a close relative of Psilocybe mexicana and has been recorded only from Georgia.
It was mexicana at one point and became a "subspecies" over time. Why exactly is it called by a totally different name, I do not know. Maybe it has changed enough over the years and became too different to be called a mex sub-species. Many will argue that it is just a different variety of mex though, and I agree. Much like the Mex "A" or Mex "jalisco", or any cube when compared to another, in reality.
they used to be clasified as separate species, p. galindoi, p. mexicana, p. tampenensis & p. atlantis.
After study of the DNA by Guzman, it was realized they are all the same specie, just different "varieties" or whatever you want to call them.
So now they are all p. mexicana
This happened recently. I did a quick search and can't find reference, but this is what I read somewhere recently.
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blackout
Registered: 07/16/00
Posts: 5,266
Last seen: 5 months, 9 days
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Re: Sclerotia production write-up geared to the absolute beginner [Re: Supalemonhaze]
#23374036 - 06/23/16 02:47 PM (7 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
guyute22 said:
After study of the DNA by Guzman, it was realized they are all the same specie, just different "varieties" or whatever you want to call them.
So now they are all p. mexicana
This happened recently. I did a quick search and can't find reference, but this is what I read somewhere recently.
If anyone finds this please post a link.
There are definite differences between them, it is not like they are bog standard cubes you are comparing. There are a few mexicana types/strains/varieties out there,
mex A is a fairly fast producing -the other mex ones are not as prolific stone producers
tamp is typically slow at producing stones.
ATL#7 AKA galindoi is more unique in that stones grow throughout the jars/bags, while the others tend to produce mainly up against the glass/bag. It is probably as fast producing as mex A. A user called Aero had some remarkably fast growing ATL stones from cloned from commercial ones.
There is no atlantis on the market that I have heard of, plenty will continue to sell the ATL#7/galindoi as atlantis though.
There were other ATL# numbers grown out by Workman of sporeworks but they were never openly released AFAIK, I wish I had at least 2 of the others I read about, and was surprised they were not released.
As for the tek, the comment about only 15psi being of use could put people off who already have a 12psi cooker. They need to increase time. The last stones I grew were on white rice which was mixed with coir, no PC needed at all. Interestingly the rice produced no stones at all, none visible to me of a reasonable size anyway. I mixed with coir in an attempt to fruit them and then stones grew. This was the same commercial strain Aero had.
Quote:
Supalemonhaze said:
I still have zero luck with SHIPs,
To some this could read like you have had a 100% failure rate with SHIPs which I doubt it the case, maybe you have though. SHIPs should be covered with foil which is not removed until in a SAB, or maybe more removed at all if its not covering the filter, I also just use plastic sandwich bags over my jars which cling to them and are ripped off before use. If you know where the SHIP is you could even flame the tinfoil itself and inject directly through the foil and then through the SHIP. So even if some silicone does get pushed into the jar it should be sterile.
I would not use this phrase Quote:
One could call this the easiest way to grow magic mushrooms.
I know you go on to explain. I would usually say something like "easiest way to grow an active substance". When explaining to noobs I would often say things like "you say you want to grow mushrooms but I presume you are actually want to grow something you can get a dose from, which is not necessarily mushrooms".
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Supalemonhaze
Spore syringe hater.
Registered: 10/02/15
Posts: 6,725
Loc: 12" down Europe's butthole
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Re: Sclerotia production write-up geared to the absolute beginner [Re: blackout]
#23375372 - 06/23/16 09:55 PM (7 years, 9 months ago) |
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No, not 100% fail rate but enough for me to avoid using them altogether. Once you start playing with agar and wedges, you get used to opening jars without shitting your britches. I prefer opening the jars VS using a port every time because you will be skipping a contam vector if your sterile tek is dependable. If it is not, I would still recommend that you practice. Depending on your sterile tek is always better than relying on a SHIP to keep your jars clean.
By the way, wikipedia refers to ATL#7 as Ps. atlantis. It says that it's origin is from atlanta, but it doesn't refer to it as ATL#7 or galindoi. As you mentioned already, the #7 means a specific set of pheno's from the ATL. I'm only guessing that the ATL stands for "atlantis", which is plausible enough since it's from atlanta. I am kinda curious when and where the "galindoi" came in. I have heard that in the past, there were galindoi as well as ATL#7(or was it Ps. atlantis?) being sold as a seperate species/variety. The history of ATL#7 is not very well documented though, I've only heard of that theory a couple of times here and there. Definitely not something I would bet on but it would explain why there is a seemingly unrelated name thrown in the mix.(galindoi)
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bodhisatta  
Smurf real estate agent
Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,891
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Sclerotia production write-up geared to the absolute beginner [Re: Supalemonhaze]
#23375586 - 06/23/16 11:08 PM (7 years, 9 months ago) |
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I always want to say gandoli in my head rather than galindoi
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SloppyJoseph
Non-sporalator
Registered: 12/08/15
Posts: 8,511
Loc: 
Last seen: 3 years, 10 months
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Re: Sclerotia production write-up geared to the absolute beginner [Re: bodhisatta]
#23375680 - 06/23/16 11:56 PM (7 years, 9 months ago) |
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Ps. Gandolfini?
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AMU Q&A
Edited by SloppyJoseph (06/23/16 11:57 PM)
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Supalemonhaze
Spore syringe hater.
Registered: 10/02/15
Posts: 6,725
Loc: 12" down Europe's butthole
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Re: Sclerotia production write-up geared to the absolute beginner [Re: SloppyJoseph]
#23375839 - 06/24/16 01:45 AM (7 years, 9 months ago) |
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That guy is awesome.
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guyute22
Ugly Pig
Registered: 07/27/15
Posts: 504
Last seen: 5 years, 8 months
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Re: Sclerotia production write-up geared to the absolute beginner [Re: Supalemonhaze]
#23376583 - 06/24/16 08:20 AM (7 years, 9 months ago) |
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RIP 
--------------------
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Psilosopherr
A psilly goose
Registered: 02/15/12
Posts: 12,280
Last seen: 28 days, 13 hours
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Re: Sclerotia production write-up geared to the absolute beginner [Re: guyute22]
#23376979 - 06/24/16 10:32 AM (7 years, 9 months ago) |
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Getting some editing in if anybody wants to check it out. I love it when my tek feedback posts actually get feedback 
maybe check out my ultimate tek compendium in my sig. The thread for that writeup didn't go so well
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Supalemonhaze
Spore syringe hater.
Registered: 10/02/15
Posts: 6,725
Loc: 12" down Europe's butthole
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Re: Sclerotia production write-up geared to the absolute beginner [Re: Psilosopherr]
#23376995 - 06/24/16 10:35 AM (7 years, 9 months ago) |
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Maybe because it wasn't orginally "your" tek  I think you made munch abandon that one 
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Psilosopherr
A psilly goose
Registered: 02/15/12
Posts: 12,280
Last seen: 28 days, 13 hours
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Re: Sclerotia production write-up geared to the absolute beginner [Re: Supalemonhaze]
#23377018 - 06/24/16 10:40 AM (7 years, 9 months ago) |
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yeah it was kind of a weird situation. I don't think I have anything to feel bad about though, he can finish his version of the project if he wants. I tried to ask him if there were any hard feelings never got a response.
I'm very happy with what I've put together, even if everyone else hates it I get use out of it regularly.
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