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Offlineentheogenetic
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Registered: 04/21/15
Posts: 1
Last seen: 4 years, 11 months
Dephosphorylation, extraction and the 'lemon tek'
    #23009855 - 03/15/16 03:06 PM (8 years, 5 days ago)

Please allow me to propose what I think is going on with the consumption of psilocybin during different water-based extractions such as tea infusions and the so-called 'lemon tek'. In the process I'd like to try to address some common misconceptions about the behavior of psilocybin in the body and in different aqueous solutions.

First, as we all know, psilocybin is not, itself, psychoactive. It must be converted to psilocin through dephosphorylation - ie. the phosphate group must be removed from the molecule. Dephosphorylation occurs in the digestive tract through the operation of an phosphatase enzyme.

There appears to be common belief out there that psilocybin is converted into psilocin through the action of an acidic solution like lemon juice or hydrochloric acid in the stomach. This is not true. I am not aware of dephosphorylation taking place in this way. The process can only take place through the action of a phosphatase enzyme or a similar process.

However, many folks report an enhanced experience when using lemon juice or citric acid to lower the ph of a mushroom slurry before consumption. So what is going on here? Psilocybin is a zwitterion meaning that it is a neutral-charged molecule than has both positive and negative electrical charges that can be altered when exposed to an acid or a base. Specifically, when exposed to an acid, the psilocybin molecule will change its polarity in a way that makes it more soluable in water.

So what is going on here is that by adding an acid, you are causing the molecule to more freely move out of the mushroom body and into a water-based solution. That way more of the psilocybin is consumed when you drink the tea and it is more easily taken up by the body as compared to when it is sequestered in the mushroom body matter.

I hope this helps clear up some common misconceptions and helps those who are interested in experimenting with different preparations.


(I say by way of caution that I'm not a chemist though I consider myself well-read. This is my first post so go easy on me if I've broken any of the rules!)

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Offline4_PO_DabMerT
SoulSignedADeal
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Registered: 10/08/15
Posts: 246
Loc: PNW, Washington State
Last seen: 4 months, 29 days
Re: Dephosphorylation, extraction and the 'lemon tek' [Re: entheogenetic]
    #23010220 - 03/15/16 05:09 PM (8 years, 5 days ago)

Welcome to Shroomery...!!


Quote:

entheogenetic said:
So what is going on here is that by adding an acid, you are causing the molecule to more freely move out of the mushroom body and into a water-based solution. That way more of the psilocybin is consumed when you drink the tea and it is more easily taken up by the body as compared to when it is sequestered in the mushroom body matter.




I do believe that most people that use the Lemon Tek, or a Tea, are aware enough of the effects that adding an acidic agent to Mushrooms has. Im not really sure it matters the exact science behind it or the exact way the acid acts on the Mushrooms, as the technique proves to work, time after time, anecdotally.

With that said, if You are correct, it is cool information to know! But it doesn't change the effect that taking a Lemon Tek, or drinking a Tea, would have on Me, or anybody else. :smile:

Peace and Love and Gratitude


--------------------
~ 358 ~
    Forever in Spirit, Erik.

SoulSignedADeal  BlessedBySpirit  AlchemicalAngel

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OfflinePrimalSoup
hyperspatial illuminations
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Registered: 11/17/09
Posts: 13,568
Loc: PNW Flag
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Re: Dephosphorylation, extraction and the 'lemon tek' [Re: entheogenetic]
    #23010350 - 03/15/16 05:55 PM (8 years, 5 days ago)

Quote:

entheogenetic said:
Please allow me to propose what I think is going on with the consumption of psilocybin during different water-based extractions such as tea infusions and the so-called 'lemon tek'. In the process I'd like to try to address some common misconceptions about the behavior of psilocybin in the body and in different aqueous solutions.

First, as we all know, psilocybin is not, itself, psychoactive. It must be converted to psilocin through dephosphorylation - ie. the phosphate group must be removed from the molecule. Dephosphorylation occurs in the digestive tract through the operation of an phosphatase enzyme.

There appears to be common belief out there that psilocybin is converted into psilocin through the action of an acidic solution like lemon juice or hydrochloric acid in the stomach. This is not true. I am not aware of dephosphorylation taking place in this way. The process can only take place through the action of a phosphatase enzyme or a similar process.

However, many folks report an enhanced experience when using lemon juice or citric acid to lower the ph of a mushroom slurry before consumption. So what is going on here? Psilocybin is a zwitterion meaning that it is a neutral-charged molecule than has both positive and negative electrical charges that can be altered when exposed to an acid or a base. Specifically, when exposed to an acid, the psilocybin molecule will change its polarity in a way that makes it more soluable in water.

So what is going on here is that by adding an acid, you are causing the molecule to more freely move out of the mushroom body and into a water-based solution. That way more of the psilocybin is consumed when you drink the tea and it is more easily taken up by the body as compared to when it is sequestered in the mushroom body matter.

I hope this helps clear up some common misconceptions and helps those who are interested in experimenting with different preparations.


(I say by way of caution that I'm not a chemist though I consider myself well-read. This is my first post so go easy on me if I've broken any of the rules!)




The acidic tea (like my tek) extracts PSILOCIN better than pH neutral water.  Refer to The Mushroom Entheogen, The Measure of the Mushroom by C.B. Gold for the info on that that got me to experiment with it in the first place.  A large % of psilocin in fresh fruits is lost in making tea without acidification.  But there's no real mystery to any of this.

And welcome shroomery. :awecid:


--------------------

if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat you
Primal's simple tested teks and projects: :awesomenod: Wheat Prep 2.0  Acidic Tea Tek  Potency Project! 

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OfflineLabs4858


Registered: 04/20/13
Posts: 484
Loc: Colorado Flag
Last seen: 4 years, 6 months
Re: Dephosphorylation, extraction and the 'lemon tek' [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #23010381 - 03/15/16 06:12 PM (8 years, 5 days ago)

Being a Biochemistry major, I love all of the sciency stuff behind psychedelics, and I love learning about new things. Thanks for the read, and some very interesting information. I always wondered how exactly the lemon tek worked from a scientific standpoint.  :laugh:


--------------------

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Invisiblecosmicaug
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Registered: 12/17/06
Posts: 39
Re: Dephosphorylation, extraction and the 'lemon tek' [Re: entheogenetic]
    #24343989 - 05/23/17 06:37 PM (6 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

entheogenetic said:
There appears to be common belief out there that psilocybin is converted into psilocin through the action of an acidic solution like lemon juice or hydrochloric acid in the stomach. This is not true. I am not aware of dephosphorylation taking place in this way. The process can only take place through the action of a phosphatase enzyme or a similar process.





Of course. What you are missing from the picture is the fact that enzymes have optimum temperature ranges and optimum pH ranges and optimum ionic strength ranges, etc.. In this case, we are concerned with the existence of acid phosphatases. An acid phosphatase is a phosphatase which has an activity peak at lower pH ranges. You will find these in mushroom tissue. Thus, it is not as far fetched as you seem to think that soaking dead, dry mushroom tissue in an acidic solution for a while may promote the conversion of psilocybin into psilocin. I would guess, however, that this is less likely to happen in the stomach because the other thing that a low pH activates is gastric proteases which would tend to destroy the native fungal acid phosphatases (so perhaps the conversion in that case would be likely to happen elsewhere and more gradually).

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