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Homesteader
Student of shroomery
Registered: 01/17/16
Posts: 171
Last seen: 5 years, 5 months
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Bulk Substrate pH
#22883009 - 02/09/16 01:08 PM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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I'm going to ask this question only because I get told completely opposite things, sometimes by the same people. What a conundrum I know!
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RogerRabbit said: You must hydrate anything to pasteurize it. Don't worry about leaching out nutrients, your mushrooms want what's going to be left anyway, not what washes out.
You can use oyster shell flour in both substrates and casing layers. Crushed oyster shells are sometimes added to casing material for texture, not ph control.
I like to shoot for an initial Ph of near 8. For this reason, hydrated lime is great. It works right away so it protects the substrate from mold spore germination while the mushroom mycelium is colonizing, but unable to fend for itself yet.
Gypsum is for the elements, as you said, and as a Ph stabilizer as well. Gypsum changes Ph very little, but does lower it slightly. RR
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RogerRabbit said: Ideal pH of a substrate is 5.5 to 6.5, so you don't want to use lime in substrates. Use gypsum only, and it isn't for adjusting pH. Gypsum is for adding calcium and sulfur, both of which aid in fruitbody development, and both of which are usually lacking in most substrates. RR
I'm buying a soil pH/moisture meter this week in an effort to be more scientific with this hobby. I despise people who use measurements like 'a handful' of lime. That said, I want to know what initial pH I should bring my bulk substrate (blend of coco/verm/coffee) to in order to optimize growth and reduce contamination. I believe used coffee grounds have the capacity to drastically increase yields, however, it increases the chances of contamination. I'm thinking if I increase the initial pH to 7.5-8.0 I can increase the volume of coffee to maybe 30% or so without a problem. Coffee aside, why wouldn't we just always pH our bulk sub? Seeing as the mycelium can handle slightly alkaline but most competitors cannot. I'm not picking sides on this topic, I simply wish to know how to make the best of my bulk and I've found nothing but contradictory arguments. Please help me clarify these opposing vu points
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Mr. Alien
I will abduct andprobe your anus
Registered: 01/14/14
Posts: 6,290
Loc: Star Wars Galaxy
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RR is referring in the first post to Casing layer substrate, which must have a high ph 8-8.5. And the second quote he is referring to bulk substrates 6-6.5 ph.
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Homesteader
Student of shroomery
Registered: 01/17/16
Posts: 171
Last seen: 5 years, 5 months
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Re: Bulk Substrate pH [Re: Mr. Alien]
#22883019 - 02/09/16 01:14 PM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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Homesteader
Student of shroomery
Registered: 01/17/16
Posts: 171
Last seen: 5 years, 5 months
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I like to shoot for an initial Ph of near 8. For this reason, hydrated lime is great. It works right away so it protects the substrate from mold spore germination while the mushroom mycelium is colonizing, but unable to fend for itself yet.
Gypsum is for the elements, as you said, and as a Ph stabilizer as well. Gypsum changes Ph very little, but does lower it slightly. RR
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Mr. Alien
I will abduct andprobe your anus
Registered: 01/14/14
Posts: 6,290
Loc: Star Wars Galaxy
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I don't know is a 9 years old post. I'm pretty sure RR in the recent years he always said bulk substrate must have a acidic ph of 6 to 6.5.
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Homesteader
Student of shroomery
Registered: 01/17/16
Posts: 171
Last seen: 5 years, 5 months
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Re: Bulk Substrate pH [Re: Mr. Alien]
#22883037 - 02/09/16 01:20 PM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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Mr. Alien said: I don't know is a 9 years old post. I'm pretty sure RR in the recent years he always said bulk substrate must have a acidic ph of 6 to 6.5.
That is very possible, another reason why I'm looking for clarification. I just can't see myself using 6-6.5, basically the ideal pH for trich, when my substrate is comprised of trich-loving coffee grounds. I could cut them out but I found the coffee grounds work miraculously.
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Mr. Alien
I will abduct andprobe your anus
Registered: 01/14/14
Posts: 6,290
Loc: Star Wars Galaxy
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You want to pasteurize coffee grounds really good and use a high spawn ratio. And you don't want to raise the ph of a bulk substrate to 8, that would make things harder for the myc to complete colonization. Trich can still happen with a 8 ph substrate, so you are better using a high spawn ratio.
Edit: also don't use that much coffee grounds, use it like an additive only 5-10% of the total volume for example.
Edited by Mr. Alien (02/09/16 01:40 PM)
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cronicr
Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
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Re: Bulk Substrate pH [Re: Mr. Alien]
#22883102 - 02/09/16 01:43 PM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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as far as i know the only bulk you should worry about the ph being is straw, bulk gets pasturized and colonized so unless you are using a sub that is very acidic i don't see it really mattering.
-------------------- It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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Homesteader
Student of shroomery
Registered: 01/17/16
Posts: 171
Last seen: 5 years, 5 months
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Re: Bulk Substrate pH [Re: cronicr]
#22883276 - 02/09/16 02:28 PM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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cronicr said: as far as i know the only bulk you should worry about the ph being is straw, bulk gets pasturized and colonized so unless you are using a sub that is very acidic i don't see it really mattering.
Do you think it would be problematic if it were on the alkaline side, say 7.5~?
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Mr. Alien
I will abduct andprobe your anus
Registered: 01/14/14
Posts: 6,290
Loc: Star Wars Galaxy
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I'd say you can try if you want to feel more secure, it will just take a little longer to colonize the sub than if you were colonizing at 6 of ph. But a coffee grounds bulk substrate being slightly more alkaline... that doesn't will stop trich from thriving. If the substrate takes to long to colonize trich is a threat specially with coffee grounds. I'd say you just need to use high spawn ratios and don't raise ph if you don't have to. My 2 cents.
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cronicr
Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
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Quote:
Homesteader said:
Quote:
cronicr said: as far as i know the only bulk you should worry about the ph being is straw, bulk gets pasturized and colonized so unless you are using a sub that is very acidic i don't see it really mattering.
Do you think it would be problematic if it were on the alkaline side, say 7.5~?
not at all we check the ph in casing layers because they are exposed and it helps with straw which is just prone to contams but typically ph is fairly irrelevant for the sub itself
-------------------- It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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Mr. Hankey
Howdy Ho
Registered: 10/04/15
Posts: 68
Loc: Nova Scotia
Last seen: 8 years, 23 days
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Re: Bulk Substrate pH [Re: Mr. Alien]
#22884362 - 02/09/16 06:17 PM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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Mr. Alien said: If the substrate takes to long to colonize trich is a threat specially with coffee grounds. I'd say you just need to use high spawn ratios and don't raise ph if you don't have to. My 2 cents.
Or just use chicken manure instead of coffee and call it better.
-------------------- Here are the best three magical additives: (1.) More spawn!!! (2.) Gypsum (3.) Chicken Manure....... anything else is a old wise tale.
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Mr. Alien
I will abduct andprobe your anus
Registered: 01/14/14
Posts: 6,290
Loc: Star Wars Galaxy
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Quote:
Mr. Hankey said:
Quote:
Mr. Alien said: If the substrate takes to long to colonize trich is a threat specially with coffee grounds. I'd say you just need to use high spawn ratios and don't raise ph if you don't have to. My 2 cents.
Or just use chicken manure instead of coffee and call it better.
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