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Offlinetopdog82
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thoughts on reincarnation...
    #22852497 - 02/01/16 09:34 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/13482772

I posted that thread 5 years ago (when I began reading philosophy) and I to this day stick by it
I have come to find that certain concepts from hinduism are quite smart (advaita specifically), and some concepts from others are quite silly (the concept of a literal heaven). Some concepts in every religion (for the most part) can be pretty ridiculous especially when taken literally

I have found more specifically that the idea of no free will (a concept discussed in both west and east) is something that makes complete sense to me. In addition, it is incompatible with reincarnation

Every thought, emotion, feeling that you have ever had all derives from biochemistry. EVERY SINGLE ONE. And as such, (so I understand it), there is no "you". There is no two ways of looking at it. If I traded places with you reading this post on your computer atom for atom, molecule for molecule, then no matter what I would BE you.

Anyways, this is discussed at various points in different religions. I was wondering how exactly this idea of "no self" is compatible at all with a soul? or for that matter any sense of karma starts sto shatter with free will being non-existent

For example, lets say a kid is born in a poor upbringing. He is raped and molested by his uncles and family. By the time he reaches a higher age, partially due to genetics and partially his own experience he becomes a murderer. How would karma work? He can't decide his own genetics or the fact he was raped and molested.
(clearly I am way oversimplifying for the sake of arguement and to make a point)

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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: thoughts on reincarnation... [Re: topdog82]
    #22852611 - 02/01/16 10:07 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

What is Rebirth? - Buddhist Wisdom meets Brain Science - Culadasa

note there is background noise





introduction to meditation






Culadasa John Yates Youtube channel

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCTnlZBjDOwI-dCH8sOta9BQ

Edited by laughingdog (02/01/16 10:09 PM)

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: thoughts on reincarnation... [Re: topdog82]
    #22852822 - 02/01/16 11:07 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

topdog82 said:
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/13482772

I posted that thread 5 years ago (when I began reading philosophy) and I to this day stick by it
I have come to find that certain concepts from hinduism are quite smart (advaita specifically), and some concepts from others are quite silly (the concept of a literal heaven). Some concepts in every religion (for the most part) can be pretty ridiculous especially when taken literally

I have found more specifically that the idea of no free will (a concept discussed in both west and east) is something that makes complete sense to me. In addition, it is incompatible with reincarnation

Every thought, emotion, feeling that you have ever had all derives from biochemistry. EVERY SINGLE ONE. And as such, (so I understand it), there is no "you". There is no two ways of looking at it. If I traded places with you reading this post on your computer atom for atom, molecule for molecule, then no matter what I would BE you.

Anyways, this is discussed at various points in different religions. I was wondering how exactly this idea of "no self" is compatible at all with a soul? or for that matter any sense of karma starts sto shatter with free will being non-existent

For example, lets say a kid is born in a poor upbringing. He is raped and molested by his uncles and family. By the time he reaches a higher age, partially due to genetics and partially his own experience he becomes a murderer. How would karma work? He can't decide his own genetics or the fact he was raped and molested.
(clearly I am way oversimplifying for the sake of arguement and to make a point)





I tend to feel the same.  :shrug:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: thoughts on reincarnation... [Re: topdog82] * 1
    #22855444 - 02/02/16 02:46 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Hindu reincarnation and Buddhist rebirth are two completely different models of transmigration/metempsychosis. Popular Hinduism speaks of a 'soul,' the jivatman, which changes bodies, retaining karmic debt, which selects for better or worse existences depending upon the balance of good karmic credit vs. bad karmic debt. The jivatman got conflated with the Atman, which is the Eternal Universal Self and is not a 'possession' of or in any way the human soul. Self-realization consists in Realizing or making real by one's compassionate actions (which is wisdom) that ultimately we ARE the Universal Self, and not merely the temporary jivatman.

Buddha comes along and has the Self-Realization, but denies in his Anatman (Anatta in Pali) doctrine that there is (ultimately) no separate eternal self that transmigrates. But people have conflated their transient mind-body with the Eternal Atman and believed in millions of eternal monads seeking new bodies and lives. Ultimately says the Buddha, we are 'empty.' Our True Nature is Nirguna Brahman in his native Hindu thought, God-without-attribute )vs. Saguna Brahman who is God-with-attributes, a theistic deity). The God-concpt is abandoned (Buddha never denied the existence of Brahman), and Nirvana ('blowing out,' i.e., of desire) becomes the term for the Summum Bonum of existence. The Clear Light of the Void.

Instead of an eternal monad, we dissolve into psychic components at death, which are recycled. If enough parts constellate together, a memory results (which is how Tibetan Buddhists locate reborn tulkus). But there is no indivisible monad that passes into and out of a succession of bodies. Now, this may actually be a metaphysical condition for the unenlightened who continue to identify with their individuality even unto death, or this may just be a metaphor. Ultimately, in either Advaita where we are the Self which is eternal, or in Buddhism where we are empty of temporary self, transmigration does not exist. We ARE Rigpa, Clear Light, or Atman. The dawning of the Clear Light happens at death, or the illusion continues as the Bardo Thodol describes.

Free will is relative, not absolute. At every mind-moment, I can choose to sit or stand or lie down, turn left or right, but I cannot choose to fly. My free will as an embodied being is determined by physical laws. I am free to imagine whatever I am capable of, but even my freedom of imagination is determined by innumerable forces that have shaped my mind. I do not want to leave this world like I came into it - kicking and screaming, but it remains to be seen as to whether death will be sudden, or slow,  whether I will be serene or whether the Great God Pan will elicit Panic in me. Ultimately, in Non-dualism, the free will-determinism dichotomy will be resolved into undifferentiated unity and all this intellectual dissection orchestrated by the analytical mind will dissolve back into undifferentiated Mind. This is why we need to experience mystical union while yet alive. It's other face is ego-death, and we must "learn to die before we die."

Plato wrote that philosophy is about learning how to die, and that determines in what way we shall live as well. The Stoics had their particular attitude (attention), the Epicurean had their's (relaxation), but Plato, after Socrates and the Delphic Oracle had his attitude - to "Know Thyself" and thus the examined life becomes the Platonist's lifestyle. Materialist, Hedonists, and others have their respective lifestyles. Donald Trump probably believes that he is freer than most people because he can afford to make changes in his material existence more readily. But ultimately, he is one of the most enslaved human beings, determined more than free by his continual sucking on the tit of materiality, dependent on luxury like the Jem'hadar on Deep Space Nine, addicted to their Ketracel White, without which they would die. People like Trump are like those people, so identified with wealth that they dove off of skyscrapers in 1929 when the Crash occurred.

And btw, the Heaven-concept is present in all religions and is no more of less meaningful than any other concept. The Moment of Recognition that is said to occur in an enlightened death is Heaven. It is the paradox of an Eternal Moment, Ultimate Familiarity, the Realization that we ARE Eternal, have Always Been, that every time we said 'I' while believing it was our ordinary self we were referring to was Really the Eternal "I AM" of resplendent light and eternal identity. Heaven will not be in form. It will not be televised. It will not be an eternal church picnic on a sunny day in the Elysian fields. Heaven is God depicted as a place. The Kingdom of God is the Kingdom of Heaven. Going into Pure Being sounds terrifyingly alien for most people. Going to TO a place sounds comforting (until they realize it's like "set the controls for the heart of the Sun" :lol: ).


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Offlinetopdog82
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Re: thoughts on reincarnation... [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #22856720 - 02/02/16 07:41 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
Hindu reincarnation and Buddhist rebirth are two completely different models of transmigration/metempsychosis. Popular Hinduism speaks of a 'soul,' the jivatman, which changes bodies, retaining karmic debt, which selects for better or worse existences depending upon the balance of good karmic credit vs. bad karmic debt. The jivatman got conflated with the Atman, which is the Eternal Universal Self and is not a 'possession' of or in any way the human soul. Self-realization consists in Realizing or making real by one's compassionate actions (which is wisdom) that ultimately we ARE the Universal Self, and not merely the temporary jivatman.

Buddha comes along and has the Self-Realization, but denies in his Anatman (Anatta in Pali) doctrine that there is (ultimately) no separate eternal self that transmigrates. But people have conflated their transient mind-body with the Eternal Atman and believed in millions of eternal monads seeking new bodies and lives. Ultimately says the Buddha, we are 'empty.' Our True Nature is Nirguna Brahman in his native Hindu thought, God-without-attribute )vs. Saguna Brahman who is God-with-attributes, a theistic deity). The God-concpt is abandoned (Buddha never denied the existence of Brahman), and Nirvana ('blowing out,' i.e., of desire) becomes the term for the Summum Bonum of existence. The Clear Light of the Void.

Instead of an eternal monad, we dissolve into psychic components at death, which are recycled. If enough parts constellate together, a memory results (which is how Tibetan Buddhists locate reborn tulkus). But there is no indivisible monad that passes into and out of a succession of bodies. Now, this may actually be a metaphysical condition for the unenlightened who continue to identify with their individuality even unto death, or this may just be a metaphor. Ultimately, in either Advaita where we are the Self which is eternal, or in Buddhism where we are empty of temporary self, transmigration does not exist. We ARE Rigpa, Clear Light, or Atman. The dawning of the Clear Light happens at death, or the illusion continues as the Bardo Thodol describes.

Free will is relative, not absolute. At every mind-moment, I can choose to sit or stand or lie down, turn left or right, but I cannot choose to fly. My free will as an embodied being is determined by physical laws. I am free to imagine whatever I am capable of, but even my freedom of imagination is determined by innumerable forces that have shaped my mind. I do not want to leave this world like I came into it - kicking and screaming, but it remains to be seen as to whether death will be sudden, or slow,  whether I will be serene or whether the Great God Pan will elicit Panic in me. Ultimately, in Non-dualism, the free will-determinism dichotomy will be resolved into undifferentiated unity and all this intellectual dissection orchestrated by the analytical mind will dissolve back into undifferentiated Mind. This is why we need to experience mystical union while yet alive. It's other face is ego-death, and we must "learn to die before we die."

Plato wrote that philosophy is about learning how to die, and that determines in what way we shall live as well. The Stoics had their particular attitude (attention), the Epicurean had their's (relaxation), but Plato, after Socrates and the Delphic Oracle had his attitude - to "Know Thyself" and thus the examined life becomes the Platonist's lifestyle. Materialist, Hedonists, and others have their respective lifestyles. Donald Trump probably believes that he is freer than most people because he can afford to make changes in his material existence more readily. But ultimately, he is one of the most enslaved human beings, determined more than free by his continual sucking on the tit of materiality, dependent on luxury like the Jem'hadar on Deep Space Nine, addicted to their Ketracel White, without which they would die. People like Trump are like those people, so identified with wealth that they dove off of skyscrapers in 1929 when the Crash occurred.

And btw, the Heaven-concept is present in all religions and is no more of less meaningful than any other concept. The Moment of Recognition that is said to occur in an enlightened death is Heaven. It is the paradox of an Eternal Moment, Ultimate Familiarity, the Realization that we ARE Eternal, have Always Been, that every time we said 'I' while believing it was our ordinary self we were referring to was Really the Eternal "I AM" of resplendent light and eternal identity. Heaven will not be in form. It will not be televised. It will not be an eternal church picnic on a sunny day in the Elysian fields. Heaven is God depicted as a place. The Kingdom of God is the Kingdom of Heaven. Going into Pure Being sounds terrifyingly alien for most people. Going to TO a place sounds comforting (until they realize it's like "set the controls for the heart of the Sun" :lol: ).



Just for the record, I understood that the buddhist and hindu beliefs on reincarnation were different. And I understood what you were saying ( I was going to clarify this in my original post)

But the key here is that I felt that it was a breif technicality in the semantics to try and introduce the same concept of rebirth

that breakdown of free will was brilliant!

and I loved how you tied trump into that last part :lol:

But all in all, that clarified a lot. Even my belief that free will was "absolute" was me mistaking relative for absolute truth

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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: thoughts on reincarnation... [Re: topdog82]
    #22856866 - 02/02/16 08:09 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

The Hindu-Buddhist dialogue was more lead-in than expository, but still worth mentioning. As a hypnotherapist, I end up losing prospective clients when I give a brief reason why I avoid doing past-life regression with people. I think the same unconscious that constructs our dreams can construct similar scenarios in hypnosis. My ex-girlfriend from decades ago has been a sex-worker all her life and she thinks that if I'm not hurting anyone, and they want to pay me to do a procedure, I should just take the money. :lol: She's a good business manager (she runs an escort service), but my professional ethics get in the way of just acquiescing to peoples' needs. Sorry, I greatly digress.

Thanks for the words of appreciation though. I don't write for accolades, and in fact people either like or dislike my often long-winded responses. I write to write. I'm a frustrated writer and this place has been my pallet. Admittedly, it is fulfilling to have been helpful to another person through the use of words. It is the Logos guiding my thinking-feeling mind, amplified by the near-miracle of the computer and internet. :cheers:


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: thoughts on reincarnation... [Re: MarkostheGnostic] * 1
    #22856958 - 02/02/16 08:25 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

That was a fun read Marko's, however from where I stand no one really knows what death is or what it may be like. Maybe not even the dead.  When Carlos asked Don Juan "what is death" , he answered matter of factly, "I don't know".


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Offlinetopdog82
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Re: thoughts on reincarnation... [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #22857041 - 02/02/16 08:40 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
The Hindu-Buddhist dialogue was more lead-in than expository, but still worth mentioning. As a hypnotherapist, I end up losing prospective clients when I give a brief reason why I avoid doing past-life regression with people. I think the same unconscious that constructs our dreams can construct similar scenarios in hypnosis. My ex-girlfriend from decades ago has been a sex-worker all her life and she thinks that if I'm not hurting anyone, and they want to pay me to do a procedure, I should just take the money. :lol: She's a good business manager (she runs an escort service), but my professional ethics get in the way of just acquiescing to peoples' needs. Sorry, I greatly digress.

Thanks for the words of appreciation though. I don't write for accolades, and in fact people either like or dislike my often long-winded responses. I write to write. I'm a frustrated writer and this place has been my pallet. Admittedly, it is fulfilling to have been helpful to another person through the use of words. It is the Logos guiding my thinking-feeling mind, amplified by the near-miracle of the computer and internet. :cheers:



I was actually thinking about doing past life regression when I had a little more cash. I was not sure how I would go about it (mainly because up until recently, I have been quite skeptical that I even had a past life)

I am not sure I quite understood your reasoning as to why that is a bad idea? Did I miss that part? could you please explicate/advise?

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Re: thoughts on reincarnation... [Re: topdog82]
    #22857283 - 02/02/16 09:42 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

I always thought reincarnation was interesting, but I never seriously considered it as a possibility until I literally experienced it.

I was in some sort of OOBE/vision/hallucinatory place while peaking on a very high-dose of L, and I saw the evolution of civilization following a linear path a long our galactic spiral towards the center. As I approached the super-massive black-hole in the center of the galaxy, civilization and the beings that composed it became more and more advanced, literally existing in higher dimensions the closer their home-planet was to the event-horizon.


I reached the event-horizon, and could not escape...I was sucked into a complete and total void of experience, which suddenly bubbled into a concept of experience and non-experience (existence and non-existence),
and then I literally felt like I was very quickly reincarnating over and over again,
up the complexity ladder of particles becoming entangled to create hydrogen and life, experiencing every iteration of anything that ever existed prior to life..I remember becoming a life-form finally, and it was a joyous occasion (for whom or what I do not remember or know, everything was happening so fast).

as I progressed up the food-chain subtly becoming more and more complex life-forms, there was one other joyous occasion I remember, and that was the first time I became human.
I remember still being able to remember some sort of cosmic purpose and grand knowledge of the universe as my first few iterations of human, but the knowledge faded as my human forms became more complex.
I eventually 'morphed' through my current life-time and sort of 'popped' into regular reality again.
Literally, I heard a pop, and I was just standing in the middle of my friends dorm-room, alone, fucking mind-blown as to what the hell I just experienced.
Honestly, I became pretty terrified immediately after this.

I was(am?) at one point, anything and everything that ever existed, and yet am paradoxically, myself here-and-now.
it makes no sense now, however, at the time...well, time didn't really seem to matter, given the vast picture of fractal infinity I just witnessed.


--------------------
zen by age ten times six hundred lifetimes
Light up the darkness.

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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: thoughts on reincarnation... [Re: topdog82]
    #22857804 - 02/03/16 12:05 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

It's not so much a "bad idea" in that it is morally wrong to seek answers, but as a clinician, I don't promulgate metaphysical ideas. I am a licensed mental health professional and I do not want hypnosis to be viewed as entertainment or as some occult practice. Moreover, the unconscious supplies all of us with a plethora of dream scenarios of unsurpassed creativity. It could just as easily supply us with false memories or memories belonging to someone else, which means that theoretically they do not come to us by transmigration, but by clairvoyance perhaps, or by tuning into what Buddhists call the Alayavijnana or 'storehouse consciousness.' Or, similarly they might be caused by what Edgar Cayce and Theosophy called "the Akashic record." In other words, there are other far-out parapsychological and metaphysical hypotheses that might be responsible for information that people choose uncritically to be caused by transmigration in one form or another. There are a lot of books on the subject Brian Weiss, M.D., here in Miami, made a fortune and a career out of his book Many Lives, Many Masters. The best book I've read (because it made me question my own assumptions) was Past Life Therapy by Dr. Morris Netherton.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Re: thoughts on reincarnation... [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #22857816 - 02/03/16 12:13 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

I have no clue... But, if reincarnation is a thing, then you can bet I'm gonna try like hell to remember the whole process so that I can tell everyone else during my next stint on earth.:smile:


--------------------
Don't die tonight.

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Re: thoughts on reincarnation... [Re: topdog82] * 2
    #22857920 - 02/03/16 01:02 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

topdog82 said:
Every thought, emotion, feeling that you have ever had all derives from biochemistry. EVERY SINGLE ONE.




But where does awareness of those thoughts, emotions and feelings come from?


--------------------
"They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."

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Offlinetopdog82
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Re: thoughts on reincarnation... [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #22859593 - 02/03/16 01:30 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

viktor said:
Quote:

topdog82 said:
Every thought, emotion, feeling that you have ever had all derives from biochemistry. EVERY SINGLE ONE.




But where does awareness of those thoughts, emotions and feelings come from?



more chemicals lmao :lol:

If I cut out your brain, you would stop being "you" in every sense of the word. If I took an teaspoon and randomly took out a piece of your brain, you would be a different person
Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
It's not so much a "bad idea" in that it is morally wrong to seek answers, but as a clinician, I don't promulgate metaphysical ideas. I am a licensed mental health professional and I do not want hypnosis to be viewed as entertainment or as some occult practice. Moreover, the unconscious supplies all of us with a plethora of dream scenarios of unsurpassed creativity. It could just as easily supply us with false memories or memories belonging to someone else, which means that theoretically they do not come to us by transmigration, but by clairvoyance perhaps, or by tuning into what Buddhists call the Alayavijnana or 'storehouse consciousness.' Or, similarly they might be caused by what Edgar Cayce and Theosophy called "the Akashic record." In other words, there are other far-out parapsychological and metaphysical hypotheses that might be responsible for information that people choose uncritically to be caused by transmigration in one form or another. There are a lot of books on the subject Brian Weiss, M.D., here in Miami, made a fortune and a career out of his book Many Lives, Many Masters. The best book I've read (because it made me question my own assumptions) was Past Life Therapy by Dr. Morris Netherton.



I actually read many lives many masters. But regardless, interesting perspective. I will think about it before delving into the rabbit hole of my past life

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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: thoughts on reincarnation... [Re: topdog82]
    #22860127 - 02/03/16 03:48 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

topdog82 said:
Quote:

viktor said:
Quote:

topdog82 said:
Every thought, emotion, feeling that you have ever had all derives from biochemistry. EVERY SINGLE ONE.




But where does awareness of those thoughts, emotions and feelings come from?



more chemicals lmao :lol:

If I cut out your brain, you would stop being "you" in every sense of the word. If I took an teaspoon and randomly took out a piece of your brain, you would be a different person
......





I frequently reason backwards as it were: "What are the unquestioned assumptions the underlie a conclusion?"
this is not a new approach, although usually we are in a hurry to go forward. I think it goes all the way back to Euclid, who asked himself what are the minimum postulates and axioms necessary...

for me the key word in all of this is "you"

as in "that you have ever had"
and
"you would stop being "you" "

even if we ignore the Buddhist view
we have western psychology clearly showing 'self' has conflicting parts and desires that are sorted out on a moment to moment basis as parts dialogue
now I think neurology MRI & PET scans etc confirm this

at the level of synapses this moment to moment action as parts 'dialogue', is really a competition of which signals get thru on the basis of aggregate  signal strength. Since the brain has billions of neurons, with billions of connections, with billions of circuts constantly switching, it would seem 'self' in so far as it exists is a verb and not a noun.

so reincarnation cannot be of an object or even a noncorpreal set of patterned data, as "the self" exists only by interaction.

and this is not even considering the interconnectedness of all these factors with the environment and other selves.

so as culdasa says, in the video, on a relative level some of the residual life energy affects others patterns for a while. Like a wave in the middle of the ocean, when it 'melts' back into the ocean the water does not disappear,
to some degree some of the energy combines with surrounding waves. But the same water molecules wave does not reappear. And none of the water is really ever separate from either the ocean or other waves on an absolute level anyway.

That's what I get from the video, and it seems to make sense to me.

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Re: thoughts on reincarnation... [Re: laughingdog]
    #22860860 - 02/03/16 06:55 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

ya. That is sort of my alternative. That if reincarnation doesn't happen in the concievable sense, I guess something of cyclical nature happens in the more grand sense. But my second theory was along what you said

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Re: thoughts on reincarnation... [Re: deezdelta]
    #22860897 - 02/03/16 07:08 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

deezdelta said:
I have no clue... But, if reincarnation is a thing, then you can bet I'm gonna try like hell to remember the whole process so that I can tell everyone else during my next stint on earth.:smile:




Unfortunately, with ego-death, there won't be any 'I' to "try." All that'll be available are recycled samskaras.  There will be no 'I-sense' to experience identity with any recycled impressions. A new 'I-sense' will have to grow from a new neonate, whose new impressions will outweigh whatever impressions might be lodged in his/her mind. And of course, it'll be 18 months or more before baby is verbal, and by then, the transmigrated memories will have been forgotten (which is the usual case, but not always. Parents sometimes report that their toddlers matter of factly speak of who they use to be. So, by all means try if you are able)!


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Offlineviktor
psychotechnician
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Registered: 11/03/10
Posts: 4,293
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Re: thoughts on reincarnation... [Re: topdog82]
    #22861060 - 02/03/16 07:44 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

topdog82 said:
If I cut out your brain, you would stop being "you" in every sense of the word.




Maybe I'd stop being me to you, but I could still be me to myself. If you cut out my brain and my body stopped responding to stimuli, you don't know what happened to my consciousness (which is 'me' btw, not my brain).


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"They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."

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Offlinetopdog82
Death Spirit
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Registered: 07/16/10
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Re: thoughts on reincarnation... [Re: viktor]
    #22861116 - 02/03/16 08:02 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

viktor said:
Quote:

topdog82 said:
If I cut out your brain, you would stop being "you" in every sense of the word.




Maybe I'd stop being me to you, but I could still be me to myself. If you cut out my brain and my body stopped responding to stimuli, you don't know what happened to my consciousness (which is 'me' btw, not my brain).



well sort of. There was this gentleman (i forget his name) had a dynamite shrapnel shoot into his prefrontal cortex. Over the course of a few weeks, his wife and loved ones reported him acting "Completely different as a person". He went from organized concious adult to childish dumbass

I am majoring in neuro and over the course of many classes, I am yet to see how a single function of conciousness is outside of biochemistry. Some of that biochemistry we don't fully understand, and it is INCREDIBLY complex, but regardless, it is biochemistry at the end of the day

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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
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Re: thoughts on reincarnation... [Re: viktor]
    #22861124 - 02/03/16 08:02 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

This is a pretty ongoing debate and no one has shown anything but opinion. I'll just wait and see. :nicesmile:


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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Offlinetopdog82
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Re: thoughts on reincarnation... [Re: Icelander]
    #22861130 - 02/03/16 08:05 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
This is a pretty ongoing debate and no one has shown anything but opinion. I'll just wait and see. :nicesmile:



well as i said, all I have is opinion. I am just logically deducing that NOTHING outside of biochemistry is used to explain conciousness. If there was a soul in the literal sense, it would have shown itself by now

So all that being said, the explanation of "what happens beyond death" could be a mixture of all the elements mentioned; something "beyond conception"

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