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Invisiblestareatclouds
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Breakdown My Grain (5 Sets of Grain)
    #21159997 - 01/21/15 09:53 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

So basically I'm not confident in spotting contaminants visually or even with smell. My last 3 tubs wound up with a contamination, likely trich, and I'm blaming unclean spawn as the culprit. I'm seeking any helpful opinions on these!

I inoculated all of these on 1-11-15. They consist of LC, LI, A2G and G2G between WBS, Wheat and Rye. Sorry if the picture quality isn't great. I did my best!

Please comment on these sets, specifically if anything looks off. If some are totally fine, feel free to ignore them and I will assume they're fine.

Set #1
Inoculant: LI (MS Cluster)
Grain: Rye
Shaken? Yes



As you can see, 3 of these are ahead of the others. Would I be correct to assume that variance plays a part and 3/5 got more of the myc-based LI than the others as opposed to a contamination?

Set #2
Inoculant: LC (Old Spores)
Grain: Rye
Shaken? I don't think so



I made an LC with honey very early on in my myco-hobby. Unfortunately I used the very, very last remnants of a spore syringe and nothing germinated that I could see. Instead of throwing it away, I kept it around in my room and inoculated later on with another spore syringe until I saw active germination.

Without testing it on agar, I inoculated 5 pints and 2 quarts (1 pint was recently shaken after slow growth so I didn't picture it).

Edit: I did this without planning on using it and only to see what germinated spores looked like. The only reason I used the stuff was because I wound up with more grain than inoculant, so figured, "fuck it." This is NOT the way to use LC!

Set #3
Inoculant: LC (Agar)
Grain: WBS
Shaken? I think so



I will keep better track of whether or not I shake my jars from now on. This was made from sterile water + honey + a clean agar wedge MONTHS ago. It has sat on my fridge for at least 2 months and has been shaken once in a while. It's been tested on agar and appeared clean.

2 of the jars were very quick and 2 other jars went relatively slow. My gut tells me I shook the 2 and they started coming back decently. As you can see, some are showing more dark grain than the other. Could be coincidence with the millet to sunflower/crap ratio or maybe something more telling?

Set #4
Inoculant: A2G
Grain: Rye
Shaken? Yes



I definitely shook these a few days ago at maybe 25% (less than pictured for sure). It's only my 2nd A2G so I'm not sure if it looks right.

Set #5
Inoculant: G2G
Grain: Wheat to Rye
Shaken? 2/4



I shook the 2 jars on the right recently because they lagged a bit. I don't think I shook the clean looking ones.

Please try and be specific as to which set you're talking about by using the set # above the pictures. Thank you all for the help!

Edited by stareatclouds (01/21/15 10:30 PM)

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Invisibleblackdust
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Re: Breakdown My Grain (5 Sets of Grain) [Re: stareatclouds]
    #21160046 - 01/21/15 10:05 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

How do you know the tub was contamed? Big green spot or somthen? were in the process are you see problems? In the tubs? Jars look good to me. :shrug: What is your sub and what are the pasteurization parameters? How long is your spawn run? Have you seen any pins? I'm missing something.

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Re: Breakdown My Grain (5 Sets of Grain) [Re: blackdust]
    #21160068 - 01/21/15 10:11 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Its hard to say anything at this point. For the most part they look good. If the uncolonized spots don't fill in then I might suspect something. But if the diagnostic shake recovers well they should be ok.

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Invisiblestareatclouds
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Re: Breakdown My Grain (5 Sets of Grain) [Re: blackdust]
    #21160090 - 01/21/15 10:16 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

blackdust said:
How do you know the tub was contamed? Big green spot or somthen?




Yep. The tubs were confirmed by several trusted posters and all showed green/white spots that grew rapidly.

Quote:

were in the process are you see problems? In the tubs?




Yes. One tub was in the middle of it's first flush. The other was in the middle of it's second flush. I can't remember the other.

Quote:

What is your sub and what are the pasteurization parameters?




No true pasteurization for these as I am using CVG. I treat it the same as standard Bucket Tek, only I don't monitor the temperature anymore (it's definitely NOT above pasteurization limits). The main difference is I don't keep it hot for an hour, I just make sure it's mixed properly and then I let it cool down 80F or below and then spawn.

Quote:

How long is your spawn run?




Not sure what that means, sorry.

Quote:

Have you seen any pins? I'm missing something.




Yes!


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Invisiblestareatclouds
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Re: Breakdown My Grain (5 Sets of Grain) [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #21160094 - 01/21/15 10:18 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Pastywhyte said:
Its hard to say anything at this point. For the most part they look good. If the uncolonized spots don't fill in then I might suspect something. But if the diagnostic shake recovers well they should be ok.




In Set #3, Picture #4, it's obvious that some of the WBS jars are much whiter and more dense looking than the others. Is this just variance and the others should likely catch up or what?

To me a lot of my jars, esp WBS, look a bit lighter and grayer than others. Perhaps that's standard since it's a different grain, but my wheat/rye look a lot more solid.

At the very least, 2 of the WBS jars look 100% and the others are near it?

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Re: Breakdown My Grain (5 Sets of Grain) [Re: stareatclouds]
    #21160118 - 01/21/15 10:22 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Just thought I'd jump in here like a big old Negative Nancy and announce that LCs made with a spore syringe are a fail train waiting to happen.  :feelingblue:

There are lots of bacteria in spore syringes, and liquid media allows all kinds of terrible things to happen.  I'm not against LC, but that's not the way to do it.


--------------------
Agar - what, why and how?  Everything a beginner needs to know.
Oat Prep Tek
Bored?  Please take one of my experiments off my hands.

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Invisiblestareatclouds
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Re: Breakdown My Grain (5 Sets of Grain) [Re: Psilicon]
    #21160129 - 01/21/15 10:24 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Yes, I was aware of that and just wanted to try it to see if anything would germinate after my initial test didn't. As I said above, I tested out my LC ahead of time on agar to check it's cleanliness so I'm aware of the risks in LC's.

Basically I wasn't planning on using the spore LC ever, just wanted to look at an LC. But then I PC'd 30 jars of grain and had more grain then inoculant so figured whatever, if it's contaminated, it's contaminated.

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Re: Breakdown My Grain (5 Sets of Grain) [Re: Psilicon] * 1
    #21160132 - 01/21/15 10:25 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Bright white does not mean trich persay. If your using ms then it could just indicate stronger genetics. You need to look at what the mycellium actually looks like. Trich myc is whiter, but also appears powdery or dry. I don't see that in there.

Don't mean that it isn't but if you are seeing the mold later its probably that there is bacteria lurking and opening the door for trich later on when you spawn.

Quote:

van der griegen said:
Just thought I'd jump in here like a big old Negative Nancy and announce that LCs made with a spore syringe are a fail train waiting to happen.  :feelingblue:

There are lots of bacteria in spore syringes, and liquid media allows all kinds of terrible things to happen.  I'm not against LC, but that's not the way to do it.




^^^This.

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Invisiblestareatclouds
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Re: Breakdown My Grain (5 Sets of Grain) [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #21160143 - 01/21/15 10:29 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Pastywhyte said:
Bright white does not mean trich persay. If your using ms then it could just indicate stronger genetics. You need to look at what the mycellium actually looks like. Trich myc is whiter, but also appears powdery or dry. I don't see that in there.

Don't mean that it isn't but if you are seeing the mold later its probably that there is bacteria lurking and opening the door for trich later on when you spawn.




I'll assume you're referring to trich in the jars of spawn. Some of these are MS, some of these are clones from fruits/clusters.

I meant that some of these look good and white like myc and some look weak and gray like something is wrong. All of this looks dry to me so I guess that part can't help me yet, but nothing looks powdery to me at all.

Would a zoomed in picture or a microscopic picture help me in cases like this? Does trich/contaminated myc have any discernible characteristics in strength or does it glue together grains the same?

I edited the OP to reflect why I used shitty LC for grains.

Quote:

Don't mean that it isn't but if you are seeing the mold later its probably that there is bacteria lurking and opening the door for trich later on when you spawn.




So my spawn is just not 100% clean or what? My spawning technique shouldn't be the culprit, right?

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Re: Breakdown My Grain (5 Sets of Grain) [Re: stareatclouds]
    #21160156 - 01/21/15 10:31 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

stareatclouds said:
Yes, I was aware of that and just wanted to try it to see if anything would germinate after my initial test didn't.




I'm totally for experimentation, and I know you're a smart guy who knows the hazards.

Quote:

stareatclouds said:As I said above, I tested out my LC ahead of time on agar to check it's cleanliness so I'm aware of the risks in LC's.





I'm guessing the issue is probably just a typo?

Quote:

stareatclouds said:
Without testing it on agar, I inoculated 5 pints and 2 quarts (1 pint was recently shaken after slow growth so I didn't picture it).





--------------------
Agar - what, why and how?  Everything a beginner needs to know.
Oat Prep Tek
Bored?  Please take one of my experiments off my hands.

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Invisiblestareatclouds
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Re: Breakdown My Grain (5 Sets of Grain) [Re: Psilicon]
    #21160188 - 01/21/15 10:42 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

It's not a typo, you're just misreading what I'm saying. I could've written it better, but didn't think people would go OT with inoculation methods. One is written as LC (Agar) and the other is LC (Old Spores) to show they're different LCs.

There are 2 LC's I'm using in the jars above. One of them is my throwaway testing jar of spore LC that I hadn't tested on agar. The other is an LC I made from dropping a chunk of clean agar into a jar and let sit for months with random swirling. The latter was tested on agar, proven to be clean, and then sucked up into syringes for later use. The former was never intended to be used so I didn't test it and I had so much properly inoculated grain that I didn't care if it contaminated in jars.

Does that make sense?

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Re: Breakdown My Grain (5 Sets of Grain) [Re: stareatclouds]
    #21160199 - 01/21/15 10:44 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Absolutely, and I have complete faith in your agar-inoculated LC.


--------------------
Agar - what, why and how?  Everything a beginner needs to know.
Oat Prep Tek
Bored?  Please take one of my experiments off my hands.

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Invisiblestareatclouds
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Re: Breakdown My Grain (5 Sets of Grain) [Re: Psilicon]
    #21160208 - 01/21/15 10:46 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not, but thanks for the help anyway.

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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: Breakdown My Grain (5 Sets of Grain) [Re: stareatclouds]
    #21160214 - 01/21/15 10:49 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

I would say in that context he is being sincere :thumbup:

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OfflinePsilicon
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Re: Breakdown My Grain (5 Sets of Grain) [Re: stareatclouds]
    #21160252 - 01/21/15 10:59 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

stareatclouds said:
I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not, but thanks for the help anyway.




This is a constant failing of mine, and it's 100% of the reason I adopted the title "Really Nice Guy."  No, I'm being sincere.


--------------------
Agar - what, why and how?  Everything a beginner needs to know.
Oat Prep Tek
Bored?  Please take one of my experiments off my hands.

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Invisiblestareatclouds
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Re: Breakdown My Grain (5 Sets of Grain) [Re: stareatclouds]
    #21160259 - 01/21/15 11:03 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Ok, sweet. I'm going to spawn a lot of these very soon. I'll update the thread down the line when I know how they turned out.

van,

Well thanks. 2 of them look really good so far! I'll wait for the others to catch up and spawn them soon.

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Re: Breakdown My Grain (5 Sets of Grain) [Re: stareatclouds]
    #21160319 - 01/21/15 11:23 PM (9 years, 2 months ago)

my advice, as it is very limited compared to others.


1. Want MS LC? Shoot a grain jar with MS and make an LC from the grain jar.

2. change your pasteurization method. oven pasteurize it.

3. Stick to using only 1 type of grain. Learn the grain. Listen to what is saying. Smell. Look. Speed.

4. Get some SHIP's for them lids or use bags.

5. Trust yourself. Their is no member here who can 100% say a tub is contaminated or not by just pics unless it's  a HUGE outbreak. thats a fact. I have seen several TC's, both now and in the past, claim something is trash to only later see that fruits were generated.

6.bacteria is the vessel that allow contams to show themselves. In my first 100 rye grain jars generated, I lost about 20% of them to bacteria. I think is due to a mix of wet grains and sterile procedure. My next 100, lost maybe 1 or two jars. I changed my drying times and sterile tek by using ships.


---
You will figure this out stare. If I can piss on super-spawned tubs and have them fruit then you can do this. forget about the teks. forgot about the people here. Just pay attention to what the organism is saying.

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Invisiblestareatclouds
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Re: Breakdown My Grain (5 Sets of Grain) [Re: blackdust]
    #21160440 - 01/22/15 12:14 AM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Why would the pasteurization method matter when CVG doesn't need to be pasteurized?

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Re: Breakdown My Grain (5 Sets of Grain) [Re: stareatclouds]
    #21160693 - 01/22/15 01:01 AM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

stareatclouds said:
Why would the pasteurization method matter when CVG doesn't need to be pasteurized?




I can oven pasteurize grain spawn. Can't bucket tek grain spawn. Thats enough reason for me. I do bucket tek straight coir for casings though.


----
TO EVERYBODY!
show me a CVG sub that was not pasteurized and resulted very well and I will show you grain jars that were done in open air and resulted very well.


:nicesmile:

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Invisiblestareatclouds
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Re: Breakdown My Grain (5 Sets of Grain) [Re: blackdust]
    #21162034 - 01/22/15 10:34 AM (9 years, 2 months ago)

Wait, what, you pasteurize the colonized grain?

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