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Offlinemanjoepig
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Registered: 07/10/14
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I may have had a seizure during 2 separate trips...why?
    #20254043 - 07/10/14 04:38 PM (9 years, 8 months ago)

I'm relatively new to the world of psychedelics. Only really started smoking weed this year, only did actual lsd once before the experience I'm about to share (it was 25i the other time, and was more of a high than a trip) and the only real trip I've had on shrooms was the other experience I'm going to share in this post (first time was about .5, just enough to feel a little high). I guess the reason I'm putting this information, other than to give background before I tell the story, is to give you a disclaimer in case I say something(s) blatantly stupid. I've been creeping these forums for the past few days, trying to find an answer or an experience that matched mine. But all the ones I found differed from mine in at least one major aspect.  So I figured what better way to try to get an answer than to make an account and try to get insight from people who know arguably more than me about psychedelics. Here goes.

Around this past March 2014, me and 3 of my close friends, all proponents of psychedelics, decided to take an hourish long drive up to North Jersey's Watchung Reservation to have a quality shroom trip in a forest big enough to not be bothered by anyone else on a nature walk, something not all that possible in the forests that exist in the town we live in. Brandon and Josh split an eighth, I had close to 3g (the other .5 of the eighth having been consumed on a trip to NYC a few weeks earlier), and Danny volunteered to drive.

Off we went and I was pumped. We all consumed our respective doses about 20 minutes or so prior to our arrival at the reservation. We quickly looked for a path off the beaten path so we wouldn't be bothered and so Danny, the only one not tripping, could smoke some weed. After about 15 minutes of walking, we settled on a spot way the hell out of the way for anyone out for a casual stroll. Then we waited.

I decided to listen to some music on my ipod. Sunshine of Your Love by the one and only Cream popped on, and I figured it an omen. Details are a bit fuzzy cause it happened a few months ago, but from what I remember, I started to trip pretty seriously. Everything was moving or vibrating to some extent, and upon closing my eyes I had intense visuals. Specifically, two silhouettes standing side by side with a taller single silhouette behind them. I saw no features of them except holes for eyes, and behind them was intense vibrating waves of color. By the time the second verse of the song came around, a distorted figure (which for some reason my mind was telling me resembled a girl I know) making that bent over duck face thing girls do in pictures (perhaps that's why I thought it was the girl I know) was shooting at me rapidly. It didnt actually look like a gitl doing that, more like a messed up mutation of it, kind of a weird visual to have in any case if I do say so myself. Opening my eyes proved no better. Things were even crazier, with the aforementioned vibration of vision getting beyond belief. My peripheral vision was pure hallucination, the branches of trees in my peripherals, all still barren as it was still winter, all turned into scarecrows. All the while during this was an intensely growing feeling of anxiety to the point of sheer panic. By the time Clapton's solo came up, shit was absolutely crazy, and it occurred to me that maybe I should turn the music off and try to relax.

That's when it happened. The sound of Cream was replaced by a deafening ringing sound in my ears, and although I didn't realize it, I passed out. After what I determined after the fact to be maybe 20 seconds of absolute void; no sound, thought,  or stimuli, or anything, I heard something. It was Danny saying "Joe are you okay? JOE". But in that moment I didn't recognize it as Danny's voice, or a language, or anything. I can't fully explain why but I was sure I was dead. What ever this thing was that I was hearing, it was part of the experience of me dying. Eventually reality came back. I heard and saw Danny and could recognize it as Danny. Needless to say I was shaken up, and had no clue why what just happened had happened. Danny informed me that my eyes had rolled back into my head and I had made a noise not too different from snoring. Danny told me he had seen those two characteristics in a person who had been knocked out (I hit my head on a downed tree trunk on the way down) and upon further discussion a few days later with Josh, the expert in psychedelics realitive to people I know personally other than Danny, he assured me that I had merely fainted out of shock due to what I was experiencing. The rest of that day was great, and I felt that great afterglow you often feel with psychedelics, but I think it's important to note that the actual "trip" itself stopped after I woke up, almost as if fainting was a kill switch. Josh's explanation made enough sense, and I wrote it off as me not fully knowing what I was getting myself into taking 3g of shrooms.

Fast forward to last week, July 4th, that previous shroom malfunction experience being behind me and another genuine lsd trip under my belt, I took a tab of some bonafide lsd a trusted schoolmate of mine had got from Colorado.

It's important to note that that other lsd trip I just mentioned was, at least for a while, a bad one. However, I've reflected on this, and determined that the only reason that that trip went sour was because I took it late in the day, Danny having sold me one off a strip he just bought, and we weren't able to meet up until later cause he had work. I took it without really thinking. I had had a great day earlier chilling outside in the park and smoking with a good friend of mine that day, and figured the vibes were right. As stupid as it is to say, I guess I didn't *fully realize* that acid indeed lasts for 12 hours, and it's not something you can control yourself on as easily on as weed, even though I knew both those things. So when Danny pulled into my driveway to drop me off, with nothing to look forward to but sitting alone in my room on acid, I felt an overwhelming sense of apathy and lack of excitement for anything. Needless to say I put myself in that box, both in taking the acid late in the day with no plan, and operating on the basis that sitting alone in my room on acid would be awful, which I suppose it didn't have to be per say. Another thing that contributed to the bad change in vibes was a story a friend of mine told me just a few days earlier about a bad trip he had. He took it in the late hours too, and convinced himself the sun would never come up again. The reason for this whole aside is that on July 4th, although I was excited and the vibes were good and I had the whole day ahead of me, I had a fear in the back of my mind that the trip would go sour. Not to mention a fear, though it happened months earlier on a drug that I've determined to be notably "scarier" than acid, that I would black out again....foreshadowing.

About an hour or so after taking the tab, Danny and I were out in his backyard smoking cigarettes listening to Peter, Paul, and Mary, when I felt some anxiety. Not nearly as bad as the shrooms, and there weren't even visuals yet, but it was coming up enough that I had to sit down, and plopped myself right on Danny's deck without thinking about a chair.

It happened again, but what preceded it was different. Much less anxiety. It was more of my mind just going blank. I stared into Danny's pool from where I was sitting, and all thought stopped. I don't actually remember blacking out, but I did. And here we went again. A sure feeling of death, or at least absolute void. No thought, sight, sound, or stimuli again, and me coming back into reality to the sound of Danny asking me if I was okay again.

Since it was the second time it happened, I was pretty scared when I woke up. The rest of the trip was actually great. It didn't die off like the "fainting kill switch" I experienced with shrooms (although Danny, who had a tab of the same acid later that day, confirmed my suspicion that the acid wasn't that strong, and the already weak visuals wore off pretty quickly regardless of me fainting).

Danny's report to me on what he observed while I was passed out was what was most alarming,  and the reason for me making this post. My eyes again rolled back into my head, but I also crushed my cigarette in my hand, and when Danny tried to open my hand so I wouldn't burn myself, he said he couldn't. My muscles were so tensed up my hand couldn't be pryed open. That combined with the eyes rolling back and the weird noise I was making got me thinking I had a seizure.

So aside from just wanting to share the experiences with you guys, cause I definitely went on more than I had to to ask the question, I'm wondering: did I have a seizure? Why? I'm not epileptic or anything, I have no medical conditions or history of seizures. I have 2 tabs of that same acid left that I'd be totally down to drop, but how am I not supposed to have a fear in the back of my mind that I'm gonna have another seizure/whatever the hell this is. Any and all insight anyone can provide (specifically any tips on controlling anxiety or fear on the come up, what I've determined to be the genesis of all my psychedelic issues) would be greatly appreciated. Stay legend

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InvisibleStygianKnight
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Re: I may have had a seizure during 2 separate trips...why? [Re: manjoepig]
    #20254138 - 07/10/14 05:00 PM (9 years, 8 months ago)

Wow, long...
I doubt it was a seizure.
It is possible a combination of blood vessel dilation and tensing muscles do to an adrenaline spike is causing you to black out.
I assume there a panicked or racing feeling before you passed out?

The main danger here is falling and hitting your head... again.  Otherwise it's scary but ultimately safe so long as you stay breathing during the time you've passed out.  If you feel this again, your best course of action is to lie down on your side, not only so you don't fall down (or choke on your tongue) but the blood will have an easier time getting to your brain in the right quantity if it isn't fighting gravity.  A benzo, such as kolonopin may help as well (before you dose) but I would try the positional fix first.

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OfflineMHbound
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Re: I may have had a seizure during 2 separate trips...why? [Re: manjoepig]
    #20254152 - 07/10/14 05:03 PM (9 years, 8 months ago)

I would be careful man. I mean I know psychedelics are fun but if you are prone to seizures then you need to be careful and may not to stop. I don't want to tell you to take medication because I've been there and don't want anybody hooked due to my advice but if I WERE TO DO IT AGAIN I would take some benzos a couple days leading up to it including the night before and try it again but it's going to weaken the trip to a degree(for some anyway honestly it doesn't stop my trip much at all it just takes away the jitters).

It sounds like a seizure to me, I had one(not on psychedelics but I had one).

Mushrooms stimulate the brain to a great extent, to the point where it causes a lot of stress on the mind and body and for that reason could easily result in someone having a seizure who are prone to them. Just because you have not had them in the past doesn't mean you aren't prone to them. I want to say mushrooms lower the threshold for seizures just by the nature that they act but I don't know this for sure. Regardless they definitely can cause seizures.

I wish I had more info in regards to find out if you are prone to seizures outside of a medical setting but I don't. I just know that is scary and I would be careful. At the very least have someone with you if you do it again and make sure they have some ativan or something to give you. Obviously don't have them shove it in your mouth while you are out of it but if you have one and wake back up then I would take something immediately to try to stop the trip. I'm not going to get into dosage but I would take like 10mg of xanax(don't do it I have a heavy tolerance) but seizures are scary and I would want it to stop immediately, the trip to stop.


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Offlinemanjoepig
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Re: I may have had a seizure during 2 separate trips...why? [Re: MHbound]
    #20254211 - 07/10/14 05:16 PM (9 years, 8 months ago)

My bad for it being long I got caught in the thrill of storytelling lol.

I'm not even sure a benzo would be necessary even. Shit was scary no doubt but it passed completely minutes after the incident both times. Could it be as simple as I forgot to do the one thing you should do: relax?

Definitely gonna try to noodle on guitar and listen to music and smoke with some friends on the come up next time. I think that'd help. The positional thing is definitely something I've thought about. Only thing is the second time it happened with the acid, I was sitting. Isn't that just as good or nah?

And a panicked racing feeling is definitely how I'd describe it

Edited by manjoepig (07/10/14 05:19 PM)

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InvisibleStygianKnight
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Re: I may have had a seizure during 2 separate trips...why? [Re: manjoepig]
    #20254226 - 07/10/14 05:20 PM (9 years, 8 months ago)

Nope, you want your head level with or below your heart.

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Offlinemanjoepig
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Re: I may have had a seizure during 2 separate trips...why? [Re: StygianKnight]
    #20254240 - 07/10/14 05:24 PM (9 years, 8 months ago)

Gotcha. I remember laying on the tree trunk I hit my head on and feeling leagues better. Definitely gonna try that, thanks man

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OfflineHygrocybe
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Re: I may have had a seizure during 2 separate trips...why? [Re: manjoepig]
    #20255874 - 07/10/14 11:17 PM (9 years, 8 months ago)

That's odd, the muscle stiffness isn't normal. Look into the symptoms of tonic seizures, then consider seeing a doctor.

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InvisibleStygianKnight
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Re: I may have had a seizure during 2 separate trips...why? [Re: Hygrocybe]
    #20255935 - 07/10/14 11:30 PM (9 years, 8 months ago)

If it's an adrenaline spike it would explain the stiffness, as muscles stiffen in response to adrenaline.
Seizures generally cause shaking (seizing as it were) and a postdrome phase where the person may appear very dazed and confused and slow to understand.

Although if you're worried, seeing a doctor is never a bad idea.

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OfflineMHbound
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Re: I may have had a seizure during 2 separate trips...why? [Re: StygianKnight]
    #20256074 - 07/11/14 12:09 AM (9 years, 8 months ago)

People die from their glands releasing too much adrenaline. It has been documented that was the cause of death in a few cases. Regardless it is not normal that much is clear and I would be careful.


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OfflineJAVA
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Re: I may have had a seizure during 2 separate trips...why? [Re: MHbound]
    #20256388 - 07/11/14 02:53 AM (9 years, 8 months ago)

AFAIK there is a difference between a person with epilepsy and 'epilectic' seizures that are caused by drugs.

Really, every person can have a epileptic seizure: a combination of a lack of sleep, stress, withdrawal of benzo's and meth use is such an example.


To-the-point: you have 2 episodes on mushrooms that are caused in every case by mushrooms: STOP with IT !

Also, be carefull for alcohol, lack of sleep, amphetamines (incl. xtc) and certain medication as this daily cause car accidents.

Attention !!!
At least in Europe you loose your driving license if you are telling your doctor that you have 2 seizures in a 'strange way'. So, I believe you get only one episode :wink: A expensive and everlasting punishment for the rest of your life.


btw:
Quote:

MHbound said:
Mushrooms stimulate the brain to a great extent





They actually do the reverse during the trip. :wink:


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: I may have had a seizure during 2 separate trips...why? [Re: JAVA]
    #20256486 - 07/11/14 04:30 AM (9 years, 8 months ago)

happens when very stoned
I once fell face first into a plate of cantonese chow mein after smoking hashish
then I got up and started throwing money at the table having perceived that my party had decided to leave the premises and get me to safety


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:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:

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Offlinemandrin13
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Re: I may have had a seizure during 2 separate trips...why? [Re: manjoepig]
    #20256839 - 07/11/14 07:20 AM (9 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

manjoepig said:
Definitely gonna try to noodle on guitar and listen to music and smoke with some friends on the come up next time. I think that'd help





I don't want to come across the wrong way,but you said you are new to psychedelics and possibly experiencing seizures or blacking out. It is incredibly irresponsible to jump online and ask strangers for opinions and brush these experiences off as nothing after a few responses to a thread, rather than speak with your doctor.  I would not touch any more psycs until you have had the convo with a doctor, why would you mess around, you are new to this and may not have done much research before hand (some do not feel 25i is a safe drug, so probably isnt a good one for beginners,I personally just avoid those things period).

That said people are gonna do what they do, stay safe OP,good luck on future trips


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Even Jesus got stoned.

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Offlinemanjoepig
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Re: I may have had a seizure during 2 separate trips...why? [Re: mandrin13]
    #20257237 - 07/11/14 09:44 AM (9 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

mandrin13 said:
Quote:

manjoepig said:
Definitely gonna try to noodle on guitar and listen to music and smoke with some friends on the come up next time. I think that'd help





I don't want to come across the wrong way,but you said you are new to psychedelics and possibly experiencing seizures or blacking out. It is incredibly irresponsible to jump online and ask strangers for opinions and brush these experiences off as nothing after a few responses to a thread, rather than speak with your doctor.  I would not touch any more psycs until you have had the convo with a doctor, why would you mess around, you are new to this and may not have done much research before hand (some do not feel 25i is a safe drug, so probably isnt a good one for beginners,I personally just avoid those things period).

That said people are gonna do what they do, stay safe OP,good luck on future trips





I mean let's not forget the facts. The only symptom that I would describe as "seizure-like" during the blackout was my hand not being able to be opened by my friend, which could be anything, a bodily response to an adrenaline spike being, in my opinion as someone who's not a doctor, a possibility; not necessarily a seizure. Therefore, I figured I'd get some opinions from people who know more than me about thia before I consider going to a doctor. Shit was scary man, I'm definitely not brushing it off and with all that being said I wouldn't say I'm being "incredibly irresponsible". Let's not forget that I told the story on the basis that I thought I had one (my fault, not a doctor, shouldn't have even mentioned it at all).

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OfflineMHbound
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Re: I may have had a seizure during 2 separate trips...why? [Re: manjoepig]
    #20257258 - 07/11/14 09:52 AM (9 years, 8 months ago)

You blacked out too, right? That is a symptom of certain types of seizures.


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Offlinemanjoepig
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Re: I may have had a seizure during 2 separate trips...why? [Re: MHbound]
    #20257293 - 07/11/14 10:03 AM (9 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

MHbound said:
You blacked out too, right? That is a symptom of certain types of seizures.




I mean that's also a symptom of fainting. I dunno it just seems like the people who think it's a seizure are operating on that basis because I mentioned seizures (again my fault). Keep in mind too this is second hand information.  My friend was the one who observed me while I was out, and he's not a doctor either.

I guess what I'm trying to say is if I just said I fainted and my muscles got tense,  the discussion would be very different. Or would it? I don't know. Please don't think I'm coming off as close minded I really do appreciate everyone's opinion. But to avoid any further confusion, no I am not trying to substitute you guys' opinions for sound medical advice from a professional, just trying to open every door available here

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OfflineMHbound
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Re: I may have had a seizure during 2 separate trips...why? [Re: manjoepig]
    #20257313 - 07/11/14 10:08 AM (9 years, 8 months ago)

Tensing up happens during a seizure that is why I think it very well could have been a seizure. It could have been several other things, generally you don't tense up when you pass out or are knocked out.


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Offlinemanjoepig
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Re: I may have had a seizure during 2 separate trips...why? [Re: MHbound]
    #20257352 - 07/11/14 10:22 AM (9 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

MHbound said:
Tensing up happens during a seizure that is why I think it very well could have been a seizure. It could have been several other things, generally you don't tense up when you pass out or are knocked out.




This is true. Do you think seeing a doctor would like, help though? What I mean is, am I gonna pay $20 to have a doctor go "drugs are bad, don't do them"? I know your ability to answer such a question is limited at best but that's my main reservation for going to see a doctor. Ironically enough it seems like that's the option with the smallest chance of a satisfying answer. Then again I just graduated high school so I guess I've become too used to the idea of adults being retarded about drugs, especially since a doctor =/= a school official in any way

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OfflineMHbound
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Re: I may have had a seizure during 2 separate trips...why? [Re: manjoepig]
    #20257381 - 07/11/14 10:31 AM (9 years, 8 months ago)

I mean...They have tests, but the odds of them being able to produce the same conditions you were under in your trip outside of that setting are pretty slim so there is a good chance they will say you are fine. There are monitors you can wear outside of the hospital for a couple of days and you could trip then recording what time and see what they say but again they will see the whole trip as abnormal I imagine.

I was just here to tell you to be careful and to have something on hand in case it happens again...some sort of benzo. I'm clearly no medical doctor but have been through my share of medical facilities over the years for various reasons. If you can find a doctor you can be honest with then do it. Tell them look this is what we do sometimes and this is what is happening. You may find one willing to work with you to figure out what is going on or they may straight out tell you that yea you are having a seizure. I really don't have an answer to that one. I've been hooked up to the machines to monitor brain waves or whatever but never during a trip or anything.

Have any history of seizures in your family? Epilepsy or anything?


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Offlinemanjoepig
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Re: I may have had a seizure during 2 separate trips...why? [Re: MHbound]
    #20257445 - 07/11/14 10:45 AM (9 years, 8 months ago)

Yeah I gotcha. Thanks I really do appreciate it

And no as far as I know, no history of anything like that in anyone on either side. But at the same time my parents only know about like 2 generations back on either side so I dunno. I really can't help but think it comes down to just getting bugged out. Rather than being excited about tripping, I get nervous about some adverse effect happening while I'm waiting for the come up. That's obviously not the name of the game here, even as someone fairly new to psychedelics I'm sure of that much. There was an acid trip and a shroom trip I had that both went totally fine. Conveniently during those two I wasn't ringing my hands nervous about what would happen. I just went for the ride. That's the advice Danny, my friend who's done acid upwards of 50 times thought it really came down to as well. The mind is a powerful thing. Could I have gotten myself so worked up I worked myself into some type of seizure, just from the pure stress I was putting myself under really. IF that were the case, seems like NOT doing that MAY be the answer. But with that I'm kind of leaving the medical realm and settling on a more visceral answer, which it may or may not be.

Hope you don't mind that I'm simultaneously trying to work it out in type while answering you lolol

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OfflineMHbound
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Re: I may have had a seizure during 2 separate trips...why? [Re: manjoepig]
    #20257557 - 07/11/14 11:15 AM (9 years, 8 months ago)

Well now that you describe it more could it have been a severe panic attack? But then there is that lingering question can a panic attack cause seizures? Panic attacks cause a lot of stress so I have to assume that it could. But then there is the fact that you were clenching your fist...That is something I have a hard time getting past and keeps me thinking it was a mild seizure. My sister used to pass out from panic attacks and she would just go limp as most people do. But is it possible some people clench their fist or tense up while passed out? That's something a doctor would have to answer.

Just be careful and be safe with whatever you decide to do.


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