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InvisiblePsilopsychosis
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Ololiuqui questions
    #19916590 - 04/29/14 12:13 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

I bought two packets of morning glory seeds (heavenly blues and flying saucers) at a local gardening store/plant nursery the other day and I was thinking of planting them or a trellis and harvesting them for LSA.
I was planning to extract the drug from the seeds.

Does any one here have any experiences with this drug they would want to share? Tripping stories, consumption methods, etc.

Also a lot of the info on erowid is pretty old, is there any newer, proven safe teks out there that have you would personally recommend and why?

Thanks

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Invisiblepaperbackwriter
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Re: Ololiuqui questions [Re: Psilopsychosis]
    #19916793 - 04/29/14 01:11 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

I took a small dose of HBWR and the body load was pretty bad.  Not much nausea, I used the garlic tek.  But I did have terrible garlic burps.

It felt very relaxing.  I think I would have enjoyed it more at night than during the day.


--------------------
Why should we strive with cynic frown
To knock their fairy castles down?  ~ Eliza Cook

It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley

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Invisibleavorg
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Re: Ololiuqui questions [Re: Psilopsychosis]
    #19918092 - 04/29/14 06:26 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

The way I remember it, eating around 100 seeds would give you an idea. For some reason I remember this being 1 packet but that doesn't sound right. Heavenly Blues used to be preferred. Eating 200 is fine. Eating 500 might not be manageable if you're not sure.

Tried naphtha extraction, didn't like it. Tried mixing in with foods/liquids, didn't like it. Chewing them and swallowing seemed best. However the smell of them now makes me gag. Be careful as some seeds have chemicals on them you don't want to ingest. Wash thoroughly with soap and hot water. Torching them seems to help with nausea, not necessarily taste. Don't use anyhting but a clean burning flame. Growing them looks nice and is fun, but you would have to grow a lot. If you have nothing but time, remove the hulls and this should be better than anything.

Probably the most intereting time was had after taking a motion sickness drug(meclizine IIRC), slightly more than recommended dose, maybe a half hour before the seeds. This was remarkably comfortable, though I would not expect to function, AND BE EXTRA CAREFUL, take a low dose if you go this route.

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InvisiblePsilopsychosis
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Re: Ololiuqui questions [Re: paperbackwriter]
    #19919536 - 04/29/14 11:58 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

paperbackwriter said:
I took a small dose of HBWR and the body load was pretty bad.  Not much nausea, I used the garlic tek.  But I did have terrible garlic burps.

It felt very relaxing.  I think I would have enjoyed it more at night than during the day.





Thank you!

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InvisiblePsilopsychosis
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Re: Ololiuqui questions [Re: avorg]
    #19919592 - 04/30/14 12:12 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

avorg said:
The way I remember it, eating around 100 seeds would give you an idea. For some reason I remember this being 1 packet but that doesn't sound right. Heavenly Blues used to be preferred. Eating 200 is fine. Eating 500 might not be manageable if you're not sure.

Tried naphtha extraction, didn't like it. Tried mixing in with foods/liquids, didn't like it. Chewing them and swallowing seemed best. However the smell of them now makes me gag. Be careful as some seeds have chemicals on them you don't want to ingest. Wash thoroughly with soap and hot water. Torching them seems to help with nausea, not necessarily taste. Don't use anyhting but a clean burning flame. Growing them looks nice and is fun, but you would have to grow a lot. If you have nothing but time, remove the hulls and this should be better than anything.

Probably the most intereting time was had after taking a motion sickness drug(meclizine IIRC), slightly more than recommended dose, maybe a half hour before the seeds. This was remarkably comfortable, though I would not expect to function, AND BE EXTRA CAREFUL, take a low dose if you go this route.





I have a fair amount of free time and my horticulturist buddy said morning glories grow well as annuals in my climate. I haven't grown any psychoactive plants since I tried to grow some purp kush plants when I was 18.  A day they after they started to smell real good, cows came and bit the colas off of every plant! They understandably got pissed of and grew balls. They were doing so well too. The cows probably an awesome time though. If this works out I will feel like I earned the privilege to try this ancient drug.

Idk if I will try mixing the motion sickness drug with LSA. I don't know much about pharms and drug interactions tbh.

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Offlinehealing
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Re: Ololiuqui questions [Re: Psilopsychosis]
    #19919873 - 04/30/14 01:22 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

I love LSA. It's my second favorite drug after LSD. I would like it more than LSD if it didn't have the nausea and purge.

If you want to mitigate the nausea, weed is a good idea, not only because it will help to settle your stomach, but also because it pairs so well with LSA. The synergy between the two is so beautiful.

If you don't want to take something pharmaceutical, I would also recommend some ginger.


--------------------
Open mind, open heart, open book.


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InvisiblePsilopsychosis
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Re: Ololiuqui questions [Re: healing]
    #19920559 - 04/30/14 07:14 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

I don't smoke weed much anymore to be honest. If I smoke for  a couple days straight and then stop I get bummed out for a while.

Ginger is a good idea though.

Edited by Psilopsychosis (04/30/14 07:17 AM)

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Offlines240779
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Re: Ololiuqui questions [Re: Psilopsychosis]
    #19920583 - 04/30/14 07:25 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

If you use ginger effectively, it'll eliminate nausea. A generous amount of ginger blended up, thoroughly, with water, and strained. That'll eliminate nausea. Recently answered a post that asked about the preparation of MG seeds and I'll copy and paste that:


Use an electric coffee grinder, a traditional grinding stone, or don't bother.

Consume only an extract that is free of solids. Even the natives do that. The shell bits irritate the G.I. tract and can cause great pain and discomfort in the stomach and/or the intestines. I once experienced intestinal pains the day after I used the seeds.


The Indians grind the seeds on the metate (grinding stone) until they are reduced to flour. Then the flour is soaked in cold water, and after a short time the liquor is passed through a cloth strainer and drunk.

R. Gordon Wasson. Notes on the Present Status of Ololiuhqui and the Other Hallucinogens of Mexico, Botan. Museum Leaflets, Harvard Univ. 20 (1963)


...ground and placed in a gourd with water. The solid particles are strained out, and the liquid is drunk.

Schultes, R.E. and Hofmann, A. 1979 Plants of the Gods. p. 175



Chemical extractions are the way to go, though.


You may be interested in downloading my MG seed info archive, which contains a file called "insight into extraction methods." Extraction descriptions from professional analyses of these seeds.

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/19595277

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InvisibleZombi3
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Re: Ololiuqui questions [Re: Psilopsychosis]
    #19920589 - 04/30/14 07:31 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Ololiuqui actually refferes to Turbina corymbosa seeds, its in the same family as your morning glory seeds but is a totally different plant.

Morning glories (Ipomoea violacea) are historically refered to as Tlitlitzin.

While HBWR (Argeyria nervosa) does have the strongest concentration of alkaloids it has no historical use as a psychedelic. It was however utilized in Ayurvedic medicine practice.

All three plants; Argeyria nervosa, Ipomoea violacea, and Turbina corymbosa belong to the Convolvulaceae family and thus are cousins so to speak, but they all have a slightly different history as entheogens.

LSA is a gorgeous compound and is easily one of my all time favourite psychedelics! :heart::heart::heart:


--------------------
Youve Met With A Terrible Fate, Havent You?

Click here to enter this weeks Ban Lottery!!
In Crust We Trust

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Re: Ololiuqui questions [Re: Zombi3]
    #19920692 - 04/30/14 08:27 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Zombi3 said:
Ololiuqui actually refferes to Turbina corymbosa seeds, its in the same family as your morning glory seeds but is a totally different plant.




"Morning glory" is the family. "Morning glory" does not refer specifically to Ipomoea tricolor. All of the plants you mentioned are morning glories.


Quote:

Zombi3 said:
(Ipomoea violacea)




This was determined to be a different plant than that which the drug literature speaks of. Ipomoea tricolor is the correct name.


Manitz (in Fedde, Repert. Spec. Nov. Regni Veg. 88: 265–271. 1977) has sorted out the tangled nomenclature surrounding Ipomoea violacea L., and established that the name correctly refers to this pantropical littoral moon flower, and not to I. tricolor Cav., as had been supposed by several authors.

http://convolvulaceae.myspecies.info/category/convolvulaceae/convolvulaceae/ipomoea/ipomoea-violacea


Manitz, Hermann. 1977. Was ist Ipomoea violacea L.? Fedde, Friedrich Karl Georg (editor). Repert. Spec. Nov. Regni. Veg. Beih.


Quote:

Zombi3 said:
Morning glories (Ipomoea violacea) are historically refered to as Tlitlitzin.




It has not yet been possible to confirm with certainty whether Ipomoea violacea is identical to the Aztec entheogenic plant known as tlitliltzin, but it is very likely.

The Encyclopedia of Psychoactive Plants, Christian Rätsch, 2005

Quote:

Zombi3 said:
HBWR (Argeyria nervosa)




The accuracy of the name, "Hawaiin baby woodrose" is questionable.

The baby Hawaiian wood rose is found throughout India and on Sri Lanka at altitudes of up to 900 meters. It is common in Uttar Pradesh (India), both in the wild and in cultivation. The plant is part of the indigenous flora of Australia and also occurs in Africa. It is now planted in all tropical regions as an ornamental or an inebriant (Bartels 1993,214*).

The Encyclopedia of Psychoactive Plants, Christian Rätsch, 2005, p. 64, Distribution


A. nervosa was brought to Hawaii by humans.


A native of Ceylon and India, the baby wood rose has achieved commercial importance by virtue of its use in floral decorations. The sepals and seed capsules are not susceptible to wilt or seasonal non-availability, and substantial acreage in the Hawaiin Islands is devoted to the cultivation of the plant for this purpose.

McJunkins SP, Thornton JI, Dillon DJ (1967). Identification Notes on the Tropical Wood Rose. J Forensic Sci Soc. 1968 Oct;8(2):121-4


The islands of Hawaii are famous for the attractive plant materials shipped to the mainland of the United States and to the rest of the world to be used in dried flower arrangements or as seeds in jewelry.

William Emboden, Jr. Narcotic Plants (1972)


Quote:

Zombi3 said:
It was however utilized in Ayurvedic medicine practice.




It was only the roots that were used.[1][2] The roots have been found to only contain trace amounts of unknown alkaloids.[3] It's unlikely that they are ergoline alkaloids (and even if they are, it's not enough for effects), given that "The biosynthesis of these indole alkaloids occurs in the leaves, while the subsequent translocalization leads to an accumulation of the alkaloids in the seeds."[4] In case you're wondering, the leaves have been found to contain only trace amounts.[5]


1. The Materia Medica of the Hindus, 1877, Udoy Chand Dutt, Sir George King

A. nervosa entry is page 207. In this book it is referred to as Argyreia speciosa. According to Convolvulaceae Unlimited, Argyreia speciosa is a synonym for A. nervosa and is listed as "not accepted": http://www.anoniem.org/?http://convolvulaceae.myspecies.info/category/convolvulaceae-new-import/convolvulaceae/argyreia/argyreia-nervosa/argyreia-speciosa

Christian Rätsch says the following: "probably only an African variety or race of Argyreia nervosa" (bottom of page 66 in his encyclopedia).


2. The Ayurvedic Pharmacopoeia of India, part 1, vol. 5. Government of India, Ministry of Health and Family Welfare, Department of Ayush

See page 16.

NOTE: The digital page numbers are different from the actual page numbers and they are: 225 & 30


3. Page 17 in above reference.


4. The Encyclopedia of Psychoactive Plants, Christian Rätsch, 2005, p. 300, Ipomoea tricolor entry, Constituents


5. Weber JM, Ma TS, 1976, Microchemical investigations of medicinal plants. XIII. Separation of the alkaloids in the leaves of Ipomoea violacea using thin layer chromatography. Microchimica Acta, p. 224, Summary


Quote:

Zombi3 said:
All three plants; Argeyria nervosa, Ipomoea violacea, and Turbina corymbosa belong to the Convolvulaceae family and thus are cousins so to speak, but they all have a slightly different history as entheogens.




There are loads of species that contain the ergoline alkaloids that those three contain. There are over 20 Ipomoea species, alone, that contain these alkaloids.

See pages 224-227, 231-236, & 238 in Solanaceae and Convolvulaceae: Secondary Metabolites: Biosynthesis, Chemotaxonomy, Biological and Economics Significance (a Handbook), 2008 (Eckart Eich). Thanks to http://libgen.org/ for the book.


I should also make mention of A. nervosa. Because A. nervosa was transplanted to Hawaii, the idea that the Hawaiian A. nervosa seeds are stronger than the rest is highly questionable. 14 different types of Argyreias have been IDed that test positive for ergoline alkaloids -- some of which contain only the clavine subset of ergoloids and no lysergamides. I would guess that the difference in strength (including "no effects") that people have observed with A. nervosa is actually the result of A. nervosa sellers selling a variety of Argyreia species.

Also, once again, "morning glory" is an exact synonym for "Convolvulaceae."

Morning glory plants contain ergoline alkaloids as a result of a symbiotic contamination with ergot. As stated before, some of them don't even contain lysergamides, but rather only clavines. There's nothing entheogenic about these plants. The sources for this information can be found in the relevant section in my MG seed info archive (link). I recommend reading Eckart Eich's overview first (which is pages 241 to 245in his book and is included in the folder).


Also ololiuhqui is actually pronounced uh-lowlee-uh-kee, in case you were wondering. The spelling "ololiuqui" is inaccurate; and I base my pronunciation on Richard Evans Schultes note about the spelling:


Although the spelling ololiuqui has gained wide acceptance and is now the commonest orthography, linguistic evidence indicates that this Nahuatl word is correctly written ololiuhqui.

Note by R.E. Schultes included in the following publication: R. Gordon Wasson. Notes on the Present Status of Ololiuhqui and the Other Hallucinogens of Mexico, Botanical Museum Leaflets, Harvard, vol. 20 (1963)

Edited by s240779 (12/23/15 04:31 PM)

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Invisibleavorg
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Re: Ololiuqui questions [Re: Psilopsychosis] * 1
    #19921745 - 04/30/14 01:22 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Psilopsychosis said:
Idk if I will try mixing the motion sickness drug with LSA. I don't know much about pharms and drug interactions tbh.




I did this thinking it would reduce nausea only, which I can't remember whether or not it did. After what I experienced, I had to look into the motion sickness drug, which as it turns out is a serious drug of sorts all by itself. If way too much is taken dissociative states are common. Not saying I wouldn't recommend it, was one of my more memorable moments, just be careful. The effect was extremely comfortable, like what I imagine heroin is like. This lasted less than an hour from peak, and after that was a pleasant trip.

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Offlinex Ju x
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Re: Ololiuqui questions [Re: avorg]
    #19921850 - 04/30/14 01:44 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

From my knowledge, Morning glory Heavenly blues contain the most LSA per seed, so those are the ones you want. I ate 300 of them once and had a visual trip, but the body load and other side effects like nausea made me feel like it was not worth it.

I would really look into the methods of extracting the lsa out of the seeds which can be found on here I'm sure. I've been planning on trying LSA this summer with a friend at his cabin and we're soon looking into the best methods for extracting. I know there's a wine method.

Extractions are the best route of ingestion because it seems most of the unwanted side effects are diminished significantly.


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InvisibleZombi3
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Re: Ololiuqui questions [Re: s240779]
    #19923679 - 04/30/14 07:34 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Da2ra said:
Quote:

Zombi3 said:
Ololiuqui actually refferes to Turbina corymbosa seeds, its in the same family as your morning glory seeds but is a totally different plant.




"Morning glory" is the family. "Morning glory" does not refer specifically to Ipomoea tricolor. All of the plants you mentioned are morning glories.


Quote:

Zombi3 said:
(Ipomoea violacea)




This was determined to be a different plant than that which the drug literature speaks of. Ipomoea tricolor is the correct name.


Manitz (in Fedde, Repert. Spec. Nov. Regni Veg. 88: 265–271. 1977) has sorted out the tangled nomenclature surrounding Ipomoea violacea L., and established that the name correctly refers to this pantropical littoral moon flower, and not to I. tricolor Cav., as had been supposed by several authors.

http://convolvulaceae.myspecies.info/category/convolvulaceae/convolvulaceae/ipomoea/ipomoea-violacea


Manitz, Hermann. 1977. Was ist Ipomoea violacea L.? Fedde, Friedrich Karl Georg (editor). Repert. Spec. Nov. Regni. Veg. Beih.


Quote:

Zombi3 said:
Morning glories (Ipomoea violacea) are historically refered to as Tlitlitzin.




It has not yet been possible to confirm with certainty whether Ipomoea violacea is identical to the Aztec entheogenic plant known as tlitliltzin, but it is very likely.

The Encyclopedia of Psychoactive Plants, Christian Rätsch, 2005

Quote:

Zombi3 said:
HBWR (Argeyria nervosa)




The accuracy of the name, "Hawaiin baby woodrose" is questionable.

The baby Hawaiian wood rose is found throughout India and on Sri Lanka at altitudes of up to 900 meters. It is common in Uttar Pradesh (India), both in the wild and in cultivation. The plant is part of the indigenous flora of Australia and also occurs in Africa. It is now planted in all tropical regions as an ornamental or an inebriant (Bartels 1993,214*).

The Encyclopedia of Psychoactive Plants, Christian Rätsch, 2005, p. 64, Distribution


A. nervosa was brought to Hawaii by humans.


A native of Ceylon and India, the baby wood rose has achieved commercial importance by virtue of its use in floral decorations. The sepals and seed capsules are not susceptible to wilt or seasonal non-availability, and substantial acreage in the Hawaiin Islands is devoted to the cultivation of the plant for this purpose.

McJunkins SP, Thornton JI, Dillon DJ (1967). Identification Notes on the Tropical Wood Rose. J Forensic Sci Soc. 1968 Oct;8(2):121-4


The islands of Hawaii are famous for the attractive plant materials shipped to the mainland of the United States and to the rest of the world to be used in dried flower arrangements or as seeds in jewelry.

William Emboden, Jr. Narcotic Plants (1972)


Quote:

Zombi3 said:
It was however utilized in Ayurvedic medicine practice.




It was only the roots that were used.[1][2] The roots have been found to contain only trace amounts of unknown alkaloids[3] -- meaning those alkaloids aren't necessarily the ergoline alkaloids. It's unlikely that they are ergoline alkaloids (and even if they are, it's not enough for effects), given that "The biosynthesis of these indole alkaloids occurs in the leaves, while the subsequent translocalization leads to an accumulation of the alkaloids in the seeds."[4] In case you're wondering, the leaves have been found to contain only trace amounts.[5]


1. The Materia Medica of the Hindus, 1877, Udoy Chand Dutt, Sir George King

A. nervosa entry is page 207. In this book it is referred to as Argyreia speciosa. According to Convolvulaceae Unlimited, Argyreia speciosa is a synonym for A. nervosa and is listed as "not accepted": http://www.anoniem.org/?http://convolvulaceae.myspecies.info/category/convolvulaceae-new-import/convolvulaceae/argyreia/argyreia-nervosa/argyreia-speciosa

Christian Rätsch says the following: "probably only an African variety or race of Argyreia nervosa" (bottom of page 66 in his encyclopedia).


2. The Ayurvedic Pharmacopoeia of India, part 1, vol. 5. Government of India, Ministry of Health and Family Welfare, Department of Ayush

See page 16.

NOTE: The digital page numbers are different from the actual page numbers and they are: 225 & 30


3. Page 17 in above reference.


4. The Encyclopedia of Psychoactive Plants, Christian Rätsch, 2005, p. 300, Ipomoea tricolor entry, Constituents


5. Weber JM, Ma TS, 1976, Microchemical investigations of medicinal plants. XIII. Separation of the alkaloids in the leaves of Ipomoea violacea using thin layer chromatography. Microchimica Acta, p. 224, Summary


Quote:

Zombi3 said:
All three plants; Argeyria nervosa, Ipomoea violacea, and Turbina corymbosa belong to the Convolvulaceae family and thus are cousins so to speak, but they all have a slightly different history as entheogens.




There are loads of species that contain the ergoline alkaloids that those three contain. There are over 20 Ipomoea species, alone, that contain these alkaloids.

See pages 224-227, 231-236, & 238 in Solanaceae and Convolvulaceae: Secondary Metabolites: Biosynthesis, Chemotaxonomy, Biological and Economics Significance (a Handbook), 2008 (Eckart Eich). Thanks to http://libgen.org/ for the book.


I should also make mention of A. nervosa. Because A. nervosa was transplanted to Hawaii, the idea that the Hawaiian A. nervosa seeds are stronger than the rest is highly questionable. 14 different types of Argyreias have been IDed that test positive for ergoline alkaloids -- some of which contain only the clavine subset of ergoloids and no lysergamides. I would guess that the difference in strength (including "no effects") that people have observed with A. nervosa is actually the result of A. nervosa sellers selling a variety of Argyreia species.

Also, once again, "morning glory" is an exact synonym for "Convolvulaceae."

Morning glory plants contain ergoline alkaloids as a result of a symbiotic contamination with ergot-related fungi, which differs by plant. As stated before, some of them don't even contain lysergamides, but rather only clavines. There's nothing entheogenic about these plants. The sources for this information can be found in the relevant section in my MG seed info archive (link). I recommend reading Eckart Eich's overview first (which is pages 241 to 245in his book and is included in the folder).


Also ololiuhqui is actually pronounced uh-lowlee-uh-kee, in case you were wondering. The spelling "ololiuqui" is inaccurate; and I base my pronunciation on Richard Evans Schultes note about the spelling:


Although the spelling ololiuqui has gained wide acceptance and is now the commonest orthography, linguistic evidence indicates that this Nahuatl word is correctly written ololiuhqui.

Note by R.E. Schultes included in the following publication: R. Gordon Wasson. Notes on the Present Status of Ololiuhqui and the Other Hallucinogens of Mexico, Botanical Museum Leaflets, Harvard, vol. 20 (1963)



Epic post bro! Da2ra you da man! I would love to talk about LSA with you. When I have more time Im going to properly respond to this post cuz it tickled my fancy!


--------------------
Youve Met With A Terrible Fate, Havent You?

Click here to enter this weeks Ban Lottery!!
In Crust We Trust

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Re: Ololiuqui questions [Re: Zombi3]
    #19925352 - 05/01/14 03:44 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Zombi3 said:
Epic post bro! Da2ra you da man!




Thanks.

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OfflinePsilocybinPsycho1
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Re: Ololiuqui questions [Re: s240779]
    #19926033 - 05/01/14 10:09 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

One of the first psychedelics I did it will always have place in my heart and is a very good psychedelic. Not very visually intense and likely not intense enough to cause a bad trip, the nausea and body load can be a bummer preventing you from wanting to move much. The introspection and head-space is amazing though and you will have many memorable moments with a solid LSA trip. Recommended, but don't do it too often the vasoconstriction is a big bummer.

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Re: Ololiuqui questions [Re: s240779]
    #19927264 - 05/01/14 03:23 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

I use raw ginger as well for nausea.  I'll just cut it up and eat it.


--------------------
Why should we strive with cynic frown
To knock their fairy castles down?  ~ Eliza Cook

It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley

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* GLOVE BOX & TERRIUM QUESTION Phake_ld 875 4 10/21/01 09:01 PM
by superpimp

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