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Aopocetx
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I want to learn to identify psychoactive cacti/Home Depot San Pedro
#19397468 - 01/10/14 06:16 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Hello, thanks for taking the time to read this post.
Yesterday I was at Home Depot and I saw what I believe were 2 young San Pedro cactuses. They were blueish. They looked just like the ones I've seen in pictures. However they had 5 "ridges"... what do you call them? Does San Pedro come in that many when they're young?
The point of this post is that I want to teach myself general characteristics to look for to identify some of the rarer cactuses. The ones that are typically short and fat (think peyote style shape). I saw some "Echinocactus" (that's what the label said) that looked vaguely like some sort of psychoactive cactus I've read about before.
Is there a website with a list of species that have psychedelic effects? I know there's actually a huge amount, correct? This is the main point of this thread actually. If I could just see pictures and descriptions, I learn fast that way.
Thanks for your time. I appreciate it.
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KBG1977
Registered: 08/23/08
Posts: 11,017
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Re: I want to learn to identify psychoactive cacti/Home Depot San Pedro [Re: Aopocetx]
#19397616 - 01/10/14 07:13 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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You can find Pedros at Depot,I used to see them all the time back in Florida,but you'd be better off checking out the marketplace on here for some.You'd get a better deal,and a better product;-)Another thing I've found about Home Depot,and Lowe's is that,half the time they don't even have their cacti labeled,and when they do,sometimes they aren't even the right labels to fit the species!
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intelligentlife
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Re: I want to learn to identify psychoactive cacti/Home Depot San Pedro [Re: Aopocetx]
#19397627 - 01/10/14 07:17 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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There is pics from cacti said to be contains mescaline, there are lots of different forms.. Hope these pics help you.
T. Peruvianus/Hybrid ...Still probably active cactus.
T. Bridgesii (rarely inactive)
Younger t. bridgesii
T. Cuzcoensis (Reported to be active and inactive, probably most likely very low mecaline content)
Peyote ofc (rarely used in purpose to get experience)
Two different san pedro, another is from south america
San pedro KK339 clone
T. Pachanoi/Peruvianus/Hybrid
San pedro KK339 clones (totally active, photo not taken at day light but they're little bit bluish, not much tho)
Ribs vary from five to six at this clone.. Never seen seven rib KK339 clone I have. I have never had seed grown KK339, only these cuttings, probably mother plant(s) for KK339 seeds.
Hope these pics help you with ID. Predominant cultivar are similar to spineless pachanoi.. However, There are lots of cacti people have never ingested and therefor not tested..
IF you want to make sure you have cacti with mescaline, obtain trichocereus bridgesii, it's most likely active. Also some san pedro(spineless cactus) are active but there are reports of inactive clones but it doesn't mean every plant is inactive..
I can only say you need to obtain different variants, brew them and find out yourself.
Edited by intelligentlife (01/10/14 07:20 AM)
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KBG1977
Registered: 08/23/08
Posts: 11,017
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Re: I want to learn to identify psychoactive cacti/Home Depot San Pedro [Re: intelligentlife]
#19397631 - 01/10/14 07:18 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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This one will never be sold at Home depot,or any other place that sells cacti in the US
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intelligentlife
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Re: I want to learn to identify psychoactive cacti/Home Depot San Pedro [Re: KBG1977]
#19397651 - 01/10/14 07:26 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Oh forgot to show some seedlings and one pic about bridgesii to help you ID it.. They're usually active, rarely heard inactive bridgesii. I can't give dosing information, because it's vary from clone to clone.
Pachanoi seedlings, few years old, ribs vary from 8 to 6.
Bridgesii
Older bridgesii spination from top cutting. Spines are honey colored, when it ages they turn to grey-white. (second pic are from different clone but it gives you idea about what I mean) > Bridgesii ribs vary from 6 to 4.. Rarely 4 or over 6. Also rib amount can be result of environment.
There is a legend around south american shamans what tells, less ribs = more potent cacti and 4 rib cactus are most sacred one. But this is not proven in science afaik.
T. Bridgesii have usually 1-5 spines per aeroles.. Depends on clone.. Rarely over 5 spines. Usually approx 2-4 spines per aerole and they seems they have no pattern how they grow.. Only I have notice spines grows towards sun.
Edited by intelligentlife (01/10/14 07:33 AM)
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KBG1977
Registered: 08/23/08
Posts: 11,017
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Re: I want to learn to identify psychoactive cacti/Home Depot San Pedro [Re: intelligentlife]
#19397657 - 01/10/14 07:29 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Keep em coming I.T
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intelligentlife
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Re: I want to learn to identify psychoactive cacti/Home Depot San Pedro [Re: KBG1977]
#19397715 - 01/10/14 07:47 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Only I can say.. "Common" dose of sacred trichocereus are 12inches(~30cm) approx 4-6cm diameter of cactus. But I have read some people use 16-24inch(~40-60cm)
Common rule is if you doesn't have experience, not even minor from 12inch section of san pedro, it's weak one.. Also if 12inch section, assuming diameter is ~2inch gives strong experience, then it's potent one.
Bridgesii can be very active at dosage of 12inch of ~2-3inch fat cacti. I have heard dosages as low as 6inches but never experienced myself about bridgesii at all.
Ofc diameter of cactus basically means there is more flesh and active green tissue in plant. But slim trichos(<4cm) are also active.. I know it from experience.
1inch = 2,5cm.
So... If you want to know is your plant psychoactive, make sure you have trichocereus, brew 12inch of cactus, drink the bad tasting tea and wait effects.. If tea doesn't have ANY BITTER taste, you probably doesn't have lots of alkaloids there.
Bitter taste doesn't tell everything but it tell presence of phenetylamines in your plant. Only those who have drink beverage few times "know" the right bitter taste of beverage and therefor can know with one taste is the beverage active or not.
Only thing I can say, if your beverage isn't bitter chemically taste at all, it's most likely inactive beverage. Maybe because of wrong way process the beverage or the actual cactus doesn't have much of alkaloids in tissue or only trace amounts..
No one can say from picture what cactus are active or not if someone doesn't show picture from clone and tell it's active.. But brewing a san pedro to mescaline beverage are basically illegal in most countries so those who have active clones, doesn't necessary tell it in public.
If you really want to know how much you ingest, remove core and spines, dry the cactus and weight the dry flesh.. Also beverage making from dry plant tissue are easy, you can grind it to very small pieces and then mix to water and make beverage.. Also some acidic stuff help to make your beverage. Vinegar or lemon.. I have succeed to get active beverage in 1,5-2hours(usually under 3hours easily) but it's not matter of EG anymore how to boil and produce beverage fast with way you got all goods to your beverage. Even there is still always some loss when brewing a plant but it's minor.
I'm not anymore even in the mood of taking a trip, I feel I have nothing to learn more from sacred plant. But I can only say I have experience strong mescaline effects, now my plants are only for ornaments because I simply have no time nor enthusiasm to experience 12-20hour mescaline trip. But it's funny to collect some sacred plants tho..
Do not take my pictures as advice they're all active.. I doesn't know most of them but they're probably active plants, how active.. I just don't know.. T. Cuzcoensis isn't probably active and it have been sold as "peruvian torch" ...Still I have heard similar cuzcos are called san pedro and contains mescaline and other phenethylamines. Usually they're considered as inactive or very weak plants. There can be still exception to rule. If one cuzco have traces of mescaline, one can have more but yet no one know it.
If you can travel to south america, to trichocereus native habitat, you can see there is lots of different looking cacti used because of their mecaline content. And therefor it have created small tourism industry aswell.. Some people travel to south america, peru, bolivia or equador see the mountains and experience the mescaline. But the variety how much different looking trichocereus plants these shamans use are very large.. There are spiny, spineless, small spines, long spines, fat, slim, etc... Every plant are used by shamans at that area are active and lots of different looking strains and everyone of them have enough mecaline.
Also I have heard about south american seeds, you will have after long growing time most likely average mecaline content plant but their potency can vary still from weak to strong. If you really want like I said, go and buy bridgesii cuttings, brew some and plants rest of the cuttings. I have no experience of bridgesii but I have read from there it's very rare they're inactive plants.
Edited by intelligentlife (01/10/14 08:06 AM)
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SuperD
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Re: I want to learn to identify psychoactive cacti/Home Depot San Pedro [Re: KBG1977] 1
#19397816 - 01/10/14 08:20 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
KBG1977 said: This one will never be sold at Home depot,or any other place that sells cacti in the US
While this is true 99% of the time, you'd be surprised where a little friendly conversation with a nursery owner can take you. Seen it happen for myself.
-------------------- D Manoa said: I need to stop spending all my money on plants and take up a cheaper hobby, like heroin. Looking for Rauhocereus riosaniensis seeds or live specimen(s), me if you have any for trade
Edited by SuperD (01/10/14 08:31 AM)
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KBG1977
Registered: 08/23/08
Posts: 11,017
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Re: I want to learn to identify psychoactive cacti/Home Depot San Pedro [Re: SuperD]
#19398015 - 01/10/14 09:26 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
SuperD said:
Quote:
KBG1977 said: This one will never be sold at Home depot,or any other place that sells cacti in the US
While this is true 99% of the time, you'd be surprised where a little friendly conversation with a nursery owner can take you. Seen it happen for myself.
Ah yeah,I've seen posts on here before where people acquired them by having a private little talk with the nurseryman
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hookahhead
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Re: I want to learn to identify psychoactive cacti/Home Depot San Pedro [Re: KBG1977]
#19398153 - 01/10/14 09:58 AM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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I've seen posts where people have "LUCKED" into them too, with no special relevance other than the MIRACLE OF LIFE attributed to them. Admittedly, most of these were diffusa from what I can REMEMBER.
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prismism
Registered: 05/11/09
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Re: I want to learn to identify psychoactive cacti/Home Depot San Pedro [Re: Aopocetx]
#19401057 - 01/10/14 08:37 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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Best way to learn is to order some seeds and grow them. Plus, it's much more rewarding that way. :]
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electron
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Re: I want to learn to identify psychoactive cacti/Home Depot San Pedro [Re: prismism]
#19468713 - 01/24/14 05:41 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Seen a lot of pictures people have posted on social media or on other forums talking about finding San Pedro only to post a picture of a bowl full of sliced up Cereus Peruvianus In my admittedly very limited experience, different strains and even different specimens of the same strain of cacti contain pretty wildly fluctuating levels of actives. Even real san pedro occasionally has such low levels that choking down enough for a more than threshold dose is difficult.
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Alan Rockefeller
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Re: I want to learn to identify psychoactive cacti/Home Depot San Pedro [Re: intelligentlife]
#19468869 - 01/24/14 06:27 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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How can you tell T. cuzcoensis from the T. peruvianus/hybrid?
Can you get DNA sequences from these things?
And is it possible to measure the mescaline content?
Do you have any idea which locus would be best to look at so we could figure out the phylogeny of the species, and how these things evolved?
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theMallacht
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Re: I want to learn to identify psychoactive cacti/Home Depot San Pedro [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
#19468903 - 01/24/14 06:34 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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T. cuzcoensis tends to have notched areoles, whereas peruvianus doesn't.
Also, the ribs on cuzco tend to be a bit thinner.
The spines also don't remain "flame colored" and turn white very quickly, by the 2nd-4th areole usually
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intelligentlife
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Re: I want to learn to identify psychoactive cacti/Home Depot San Pedro [Re: theMallacht]
#19470016 - 01/24/14 11:24 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I can't much.. I see lots of notched aeroles at bridgesii and peruvianus also. Cuzco is very close to peruvianus anyway.
Actual it is said cuzcoensis spine coloration (as dry) is darer at base and new spines are yellow and turn fast to brown and then start taking the whitish or grey coloring.
I have actually got many cuzcoensis as peruvian torch and you should not mix the name peruvian torch to t. peruvianus. Basically peruvian torch are cactus look-a-like to cuzcoensis/peruvianus.
Some peruvianus doesn't have so massive spines and large aerole compared to also cuzcoensis.. Also there are no exact definition to actual t. peruvianus what is should be. It can be like cuzcoensis or similar to pachanoi but with large number of relatively big spines around.
There are lots of different varieties also and actual "nicname" peruvian torch mean big amount of spiny trichs without no exact species definition.
In my mind is more irrelevant to ask how to separate these two, more relevant I would ask are these actually just a varieties from one t. pachanoi species or not.
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Alan Rockefeller
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Re: I want to learn to identify psychoactive cacti/Home Depot San Pedro [Re: intelligentlife]
#19470082 - 01/24/14 11:49 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Genbank only has Trichocereus taquimbalensis, T. candicans and T. chiloensis DNA snippets, so it looks like we are going to make to make our own DNA sequences if we are going to make any scientific progress.
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Alan Rockefeller
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Re: I want to learn to identify psychoactive cacti/Home Depot San Pedro [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
#19470121 - 01/25/14 12:05 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Update:
I just found one sequence under Echinopsis terscheckii!!!
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/nuccore/JQ779650.1
The closest BLAST hit is only 7 base pairs away (out of over 1000!) and is from Echinopsis atacamensis subsp. pasacana which was found in Catamarca, Argentina, in the northwest part of the country.
Given the close relation to E. terscheckii, I think it would be worth investigating Echinopsis atacamensis subsp. pasacana for the presence of interesting alkaloids.
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karode13
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Re: I want to learn to identify psychoactive cacti/Home Depot San Pedro [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
#19473205 - 01/25/14 05:48 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
How can you tell T. cuzcoensis from the T. peruvianus/hybrid?
Most basic way is the spine colouration, epidermis colour and column morphology. If the spines are honey coloured then it's likely a cuzcoensis. If these turn to White/light grey and not darken with age then it's likely a cuzcoensis.
There really is no fool proof way. Some plants are so obvious but other plants that aren't tend to get lumped into groups as the genus is a clusterfuck.
Quote:
Can you get DNA sequences from these things?
Certainly could. Know anywhere I could send samples?
Quote:
And is it possible to measure the mescaline content?
Again, sure can. Just need to extract it or have access to equipment that can do the job.
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naum
Registered: 10/09/07
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Re: I want to learn to identify psychoactive cacti/Home Depot San Pedro [Re: karode13]
#19478928 - 01/26/14 09:06 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Wasn't there a paper recently on this? I'm pretty sure there is a really nice phylogenetic tree floating around based on rather recent DNA research.
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karode13
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Re: I want to learn to identify psychoactive cacti/Home Depot San Pedro [Re: naum]
#19478995 - 01/26/14 09:20 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Log in to view attachment
Probably. It does ring a bell but I can't seem to find it amongst recent downloads. I do have a paper here from the Journal of Ethnopharmacology about: New mescaline concentrations from 14 taxa/cultivars of Echinopsis spp. (Cactaceae)("San Pedro") and their relevance to shamanic pratice. It explains how the mescaline content is measured, which will answer Alan's question a bit more thoroughly, also some other cool info.
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