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Offlineblackmilk
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Broader explanation of the ''ego'' and how it affects your trip; the death of the ego.
    #19279514 - 12/15/13 01:52 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I think i have a basic understanding of the ego(the ego we talk about when tripping anyway), the part of you always worrying about yourself, self conscious insecurities, and the part of you thats constantly trying to analyze social interactions and the like. Is this about right or am i way off base here?

How do you guys deal with the ego when tripping? Do you ignore it and hope it goes away or do you embrace and immerse yourself in your insecurities and hope that the righteous path will expose itself to you? What do you do when the go gets out of control and takes the trip into bad places? Is there anything you really can do?

My last question may seem a bit trivial, but is it fairly predictable that the death of the go will ensue with higher doses or is that neither here nor there?

I find it fascinating that a seemingly small part of the grounded life is so much expanded, enhanced and has such a profound negative affect on trips. Any insights on this subjuct are greatly appreciated.

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OfflineDeemstar
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Re: Broader explanation of the ''ego'' and how it affects your trip; the death of the ego. [Re: blackmilk]
    #19279582 - 12/15/13 02:09 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Depends what train of thought you define ego with, the most standard definition is the one created by Sigmund Freud. I don't even agree with him.

To me what your thinking of sounds like your personality and your insecurities which is part of your ego.

The ego is your sense of self and it's what makes you feel like an individual. I feel ego death is a very misleading term, I would rather describe the experience as degrees of ego dissolution with "death and rebirth" being at the highest of the scale.

Yes a high enough dose will demolish your sense of self and leave you picking up the pieces, you may still fight it because letting go of yourself can be a frightening experience. Some people dose to the point where it's just plain impossible to fight it.


--------------------
Gnome-miii-odd
JAH!!! Pasta-far-eye!:bigblunt:
R.I.P. Georgie poor G
A.K.A. Jorgon Lucy

Edited by Deemstar (12/15/13 02:21 PM)

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OfflineMushroomBilly
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Re: Broader explanation of the ''ego'' and how it affects your trip; the death of the ego. [Re: Deemstar]
    #19279900 - 12/15/13 03:33 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

For me I've found that bad trips have something to do with not letting go or surrendering - it's when for some reason I'm fighting the shrooms to remain in control of some aspect of thinking. It's as if it creates some kind of conflict which causes confusion, anger etc. Sometimes i feel like i can sense the shrooms taking down the fortress I've built for day to day life piece by piece and this can be either enjoyable if I'm ready or quite frightening if i'm not. The key is to surrender and let go - stop thinking so much. That also happens to be the basis of meditation - disassociating yourself from your incessant thinking. Perhaps you might try meditating then as you begin to be able to feel when you are in that place of quiet, try and take it into other aspects of your life outside of meditation, including tripping. I make no promises, just advice based on my own experiences. Good luck!

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Offlinekrypto2000
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Re: Broader explanation of the ''ego'' and how it affects your trip; the death of the ego. [Re: MushroomBilly]
    #19281070 - 12/15/13 08:11 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

As deemster said I think what you're defining as ego is just a small part of it. The ego is the self, simple as that. Ego death is when the self does not exist, of course no one can ever experience that.

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OfflineRhizohunter
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Re: Broader explanation of the ''ego'' and how it affects your trip; the death of the ego. [Re: krypto2000]
    #19281108 - 12/15/13 08:19 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I had full "ego" loss once when I ate 10 or 11 grams of cubes. I was in a dark room and I lost contact with my body. I didn't know who I was or what I was. I was paralyzed as I lay there in my bed and it was terrifying.

It's a feeling where there is no "you" anymore, just a feeling of utter loss of reality. When I finally started to come back from it, it was like feeling my body for the first time and being re-born.

It's a difficult feeling to describe.

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Offlinekrypto2000
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Re: Broader explanation of the ''ego'' and how it affects your trip; the death of the ego. [Re: Rhizohunter]
    #19281239 - 12/15/13 08:48 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I've had that happen too. I was with friends and would ask what I am, and tried to explain how saying I'm confined to this body didn't make sense. It was very overwhelming, but the most torturous part of it was that in asking my friends I knew they didn't have the answer because they were me, I was just talking to myself, listening to myself, and there was nothing to do but ride it out, and it lasted an eternity. There's nothing like that feeling of rebirth and awe though. After I started coming back together I just layed on the couch in pure ecstacy and complete awe for probably 2 or 3 hours, just so amazed and appreciative that I existed at all.

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Offlineilla
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Re: Broader explanation of the ''ego'' and how it affects your trip; the death of the ego. [Re: Rhizohunter]
    #19281272 - 12/15/13 08:55 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I believe in ego death in the sense that you won't see yourself as any better than any other being on this planet. Others may see you in that light, but you will be humble and quick to dismiss anything that makes you seem anything other than a human being.

What I personally think is that the whole ego death thing, loss of individuality is a temporary feeling. When I trip, I always lose myself. I don't feel like I'm in my body, or I'll feel like I'm a faceless organism walking on a path to anywhere. But this goes away when I come down.

I do not want to lose my individuality. Some may diss on that, claiming that's the only reason to take mushrooms, and they might be right in their own way. But not in my case. I take mushrooms because it levels me out with the world. I see myself on an equal term, sometimes even less. That is the point of the fear and nausea that comes with bad trips. They are supposed to make you weak, and frail, and ugly, so as to show you that strength, and popularity, and status, is as false as the trip itself.

This makes me a better person. From early cannabis use, I already had this theology, and shrooms merely intensified it, and showed me the truth in it I was afraid was absent.

But I am still an individual. I am myself around my friends, family, and every other human when I'm not tripping my balls off. This is because, they like me for who I am. It's the reason why I have friends, why would I want to lose that?

What is losing individuality? What is losing ego? What does that person look like? Because I have not met one person, no matter the psychedelic or spiritual experience, that I can't pinpoint as a specific person. You would have to be the most bland person on earth to not have an individuality, and if that is the purpose for your shroom trips, then we have different views of the psychedelic plane.

Many believe when we die, we are reincarnated. For what purpose is being an organism if not to be an individual? Be yourself, have an ego. Just don't be a cunt. If the world could operate on that value, I think we would have a few less problems. But it is only a thought  :sunny:


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InvisibleSmeagol
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Re: Broader explanation of the ''ego'' and how it affects your trip; the death of the ego. [Re: illa]
    #19282864 - 12/16/13 08:59 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

"ego" is you.  ego loss means you have gone so far down the rabbit hole you have left your memories, body and "you" behind. It is a very crude explanation.

ive only been there for about 45 minutes as best I can guess. I quit thinking in language, I didnt have a body and There was no "me". I was the experience.  When I started coming back it was like becoming a printed picture of something 3-dimensional.  At least thats as best I can explain it. There were no insecurities, voices, questions. It took me a while to realize the sensation this body was having ment it has to empty the bladder. My memories came back like a rerun I had forgot about being downloaded matrix style. I cant put realizing everything is connected and one whole with ego death. I havent even wading into the ego death waters waist deep and know that connectedness is kiddy pool shit. You can get that with a low dose of x. Ive people do it off good weed.


--------------------
The road to hell is paved with good intentions, but it is not paved with clarity.” -Terence

"If you're not peaking what the fuck are you doing?" Dude on facebook

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OfflineAopocetx
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Re: Broader explanation of the ''ego'' and how it affects your trip; the death of the ego. [Re: Smeagol]
    #19282911 - 12/16/13 09:14 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

It's not really a sense of self, it CREATES a sense of self. It's all of your desires and characteristics created from the experiences you have had in your life. It's also a way for your brain to compute experiences as it relates to the organism in which it is present ("I" am hungry - want pizza). It's also what separates us from animals - we actually have the capacity to think about ourselves.


--------------------


---------> Acacia confusa trip report <--------

############ DPT HCL trip report with Q&A ###########

Follow my psychedelic instagram @psychedelicpage

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Offlineblackmilk
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Re: Broader explanation of the ''ego'' and how it affects your trip; the death of the ego. [Re: Aopocetx]
    #19288526 - 12/17/13 01:03 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Awesome respones, thanks guys. Got some brain food to digest.

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Offlinekrypto2000
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Re: Broader explanation of the ''ego'' and how it affects your trip; the death of the ego. [Re: Aopocetx]
    #19288987 - 12/17/13 02:50 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

What makes you think animals do not have egos? It seems unlikely that they wouldn't.

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OfflineAopocetx
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Re: Broader explanation of the ''ego'' and how it affects your trip; the death of the ego. [Re: krypto2000]
    #19289037 - 12/17/13 03:02 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

krypto2000 said:
What makes you think animals do not have egos? It seems unlikely that they wouldn't.




Did I say they don't have egos? I meant that they can't think about themselves which is a function of OUR ego.


--------------------


---------> Acacia confusa trip report <--------

############ DPT HCL trip report with Q&A ###########

Follow my psychedelic instagram @psychedelicpage

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Offlineblackmilk
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Re: Broader explanation of the ''ego'' and how it affects your trip; the death of the ego. [Re: Aopocetx]
    #19289244 - 12/17/13 03:53 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Aopocetx said:


Did I say they don't have egos? I meant that they can't think about themselves which is a function of OUR ego.




Hard to say that really though since we cant communicate with animals efficiently. Some animals are obviously little moer than functioning organisms, but others seem to have a deeper psyche. Dogs for instance.

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Invisiblelessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
Re: Broader explanation of the ''ego'' and how it affects your trip; the death of the ego. [Re: Rhizohunter]
    #19289269 - 12/17/13 03:59 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

thoughts,desires,emotions

can be lessened with mushrooms or meditation

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Offlineblackmilk
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Re: Broader explanation of the ''ego'' and how it affects your trip; the death of the ego. [Re: lessismore]
    #19289301 - 12/17/13 04:08 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

mio said:
thoughts,desires,emotions

can be lessened with mushrooms or meditation




Should lessening be the goal though? Thoughts desires and emotions are what makes life life, we should look for ways to enhance and guide these things towards a much more peaceful and positive direction, instead of just toning them down.

My first mushroom trip taught me much about how to enjoy life, why i should enjoy it and what kind of thought patterns to stay away from, and how to get to these places. Though the latter part is a bit harder to do when not tripping, during the experience i could visualize and conceptualize into a solid force the direct path to transform my thoughts into a more positive manner. It was a learning experience but like anything practice makes perfect. Especially without the help of psilocin.

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Invisiblelessismore
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Re: Broader explanation of the ''ego'' and how it affects your trip; the death of the ego. [Re: blackmilk]
    #19289347 - 12/17/13 04:19 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I just trip to trip, no goal :-)
same with meditation, just observe,relax,focus , I do meditation differently often, when it feels natural

I like to trip and observe nature i.e., pretty nice trip always
walk in nature, or just sit and observe

but I dont know why I like it, it just happens
our higher self draws us to do something sometimes

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OfflineAldebaran
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Re: Broader explanation of the ''ego'' and how it affects your trip; the death of the ego. [Re: blackmilk]
    #19289885 - 12/17/13 06:09 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

I think i have a basic understanding of the ego(the ego we talk about when tripping anyway), the part of you always worrying about yourself, self conscious insecurities, and the part of you thats constantly trying to analyze social interactions and the like. Is this about right or am i way off base here?




I would say that's about right, although I think the "ego" in relation to tripping also means the more basic sense of "me" in terms of my general conscious experience as something that I am experiencing as myself, my experience of being a particular individual in a particular place at a particular time thinking my own thoughts in my own head. It's the way that I experience the world as an individual, my sense of being-in-the-world. *cough*pretentious*cough*

Quote:

How do you guys deal with the ego when tripping? Do you ignore it and hope it goes away or do you embrace and immerse yourself in your insecurities and hope that the righteous path will expose itself to you?




I get some trips where I start to think a lot about my life, my relationships, what I should do to improve things and so on. To me, that's a good indication that I didn't dose high enough. :smile: In terms of how to deal with "the ego" I generally just try and deal with whatever kind of trip I'm getting. In higher-dose trips any insecurities and doubts can surface very easily at the beginning of the trip, I find it easier to embrace these kind of thoughts; just accept them as thoughts, accept yourself as yourself.

Quote:

What do you do when the ego gets out of control and takes the trip into bad places? Is there anything you really can do?




I think what really takes the trip to bad places is the struggle of the "ego" against a strong trip. The ego then becomes like a little house by the sea on the edge of a sandy cliff, and the trip becomes a storm that is washing away the base of the cliff. There is no point resisting the inevitable, eventually you will understand that you are both the house and the sea (strokes 2ft long beard and gazes soulfully into far distance). :wink:

I think you have to take each moment of the trip as it comes and try and have some faith that it will get better. I'm usually playing music as I trip and sometimes I remind myself that all I have to do is listen to the end of the playlist and everything will be OK.

I do like your phrase "the righteous path will expose itself to you". The good thing about tripping is that if you take enough to really torment yourself, there's a good chance that when the trip kicks in properly you will indeed discover the "righteous path" and suddenly feel that the trip has taken you somewhere amazing.

:trippinbawelz:

Generally, I think the bad places are somewhere you travel through en-route to the amazing places. For example, you might begin a trip feeling as though you are being dragged to hell, feel as though you are God in the middle, and end the trip with a very pleasant afterglow. If the beginning of the trip feels mildly pleasant, I wouldn't be happy as it indicates to me that the dose is not high enough. For a good trip I like the initial stages to be somewhere on the border between psychological discomfort and panic, with the dark, mysterious atmosphere of a good HP Lovecraft story. :owl:

Quote:

My last question may seem a bit trivial, but is it fairly predictable that the death of the go will ensue with higher doses or is that neither here nor there?




I wouldn't say that all of my high dose trips end up with "ego death", but they do have a common factor in that they don't leave much room for the self. A heavy trip feels like something that is pushing the "ego" aside. Some of my trip journals refer to "being smeared down the side of everything" as though the trip had filled my consciousness to the point where my normal sense of self was just an insignificant part of something huge. It's as though the unconscious mind has gone supernova and obliterated the known world.

Sometimes the "ego death" trip is one where you can feel that you cannot continue to exist, that you will have to "die" within the trip because all the foundations of your regular experience are disappearing into the abyss. The concept of "being a particular individual in a particular place at a particular time thinking my own thoughts in my own head" has gone out of the window and it feels as though you are everything everywhere at all times thinking thoughts that have no coherence and no centre and come from nowhere.

It can be scary when your thoughts just "arrive" as fully-formed sentences that you don't perceive have come from yourself. You are not a "being-in-the-world" any more. The world is modelled within your brain and more and more of that model is presenting itself directly to consciousness. You are becoming everything and your mental landscape, the division between self and the world, is breaking down and the whole lot is rushing through your head as an abstract, flourescent fractal cascade.

:scaryshroom: :aliceshocker: :scaryshroom:

Sometimes the trip just washes over me, as though my ego has been submerged and drowned in the trip, something that will return after a few minutes. The trip is still there, but it's almost as though it is experiencing itself, a torrent of abstract consciousness that isn't particularly attached to any coherent sense of self.

Other times, it feels as though I have to sleep, that I do not have the energy to remain conscious during the peak of the trip. In that case I'm not too sure if it's really ego death or whether I am just tripping while asleep. The dreams become nightmarish unchecked thought-loops, the last time I did this it felt as though every time I fell asleep that I was dying and being possessed by the dead, which we teach me not to dose too high while both tired and drunk.

:aweoverdose:

What I would try and get from a high dose trip is the experience of the world collapsing around me, as though the trip is some kind of internal apocalypse that is consuming the fabric of reality. The self is caught up in the inferno and the trip presents itself as a gateway to some other reality that exists behind this one. I want paranoid delusions of alien enslavement. I want to close my eyes and gaze into a churning, glowing abyss that consumes me and takes me to a new reality beyond death.

When you have utterly nuked reality as you know it and removed the entire basis for your sense of self, and returned to something like normal consciousness thinking that you are in some kind of post-death state, you think to yourself "is this what they mean by ego death?" but you no longer really care what anybody wants to call it.
:feelsshroomyman:


--------------------
I wrote that, but I meant something else

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Offlineblackmilk
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Re: Broader explanation of the ''ego'' and how it affects your trip; the death of the ego. [Re: Aldebaran]
    #19290033 - 12/17/13 06:41 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Fukin awesome^^^. That was like literally exactly what i was looking for, thanks for sharing dude.

Funny you mentioned the thing about sleep. I tripped once and was just deathly tired, and all i wanted to do was sleep so i layed on my bed and closed my eyes and tried to sleep. And it was just like you said, nightmaresh unchecked thought loops every time i edged close to sleep. I wished the trip away the whole time as well and it just went downhill so fast, and the hill was so steep it took a while to climb out. Was one of the worst experiences of my life. Taught me how not to trip though :smile:.

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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Broader explanation of the ''ego'' and how it affects your trip; the death of the ego. [Re: blackmilk]
    #19293508 - 12/18/13 02:09 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

the ego trouble while tripping is partly habits and reactions, and partly the essential aspects of psychedelic time distortion combined with feedback or echoes/tracers - such that habitual reactions echo and linger longer.

to address this one has to consciously relax, and refrain from participating in the reactions, the feedback to the reactions, and refrain from reacting strongly to the echoes of reactions etc.

ego loss on the other hand happens when the dose is strong enough that either habits are defeated (as is memory) and you black out or white out,
OR -
this is the good one,
your effort to be less controlled by ego/habituated reactions, becomes a sustained wave of it's own complemented by constructive feedback and more resonant relaxation that has trails of letting go following it.
AND -
to complement this relaxation, you get some pervasive joy - rejoicing in the freedom from automatic reactions (ego), and that joy also becomes persistent, resonant, and trails of it enter what ever comes to mind.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:

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OfflineAopocetx
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Re: Broader explanation of the ''ego'' and how it affects your trip; the death of the ego. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #19293519 - 12/18/13 02:12 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Yep sounds right to me.


--------------------


---------> Acacia confusa trip report <--------

############ DPT HCL trip report with Q&A ###########

Follow my psychedelic instagram @psychedelicpage

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