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mindful
Stranger
Registered: 12/04/13
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Stropharia rugoso-annulata bed and casing composition
#19225576 - 12/04/13 07:38 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Hi all, I'm trying to grow Stropharia rugoso-annulata outdoors and I have some questions about what to feed it, and also about the casing layer. I've inoculated an outdoor bed once before and gotten no fruits (after 1 year) so I'm trying to do a better job this time.
I have 5 pounds of grain spawn from Asheville Fungi. (My previous batch of spawn was from Field & Forest.) I plan to scrape a patch of ground about 7'x7' (2.1m x 2.1m) mostly free of grass, weeds, etc. and pile fresh hardwood chips mixed with spawn about 3" (75mm) deep.
The patch will be in partial sun in an area that's neither especially wet nor dry.
I've read that SRA wants a casing layer, but I'm not clear on when to add it. Can I add it immediately after building the bed?
Most guides I've read recommend using peat for the casing layer. I can get composted leaf mulch free from the city dump. Can I use that for the casing layer instead of peat?
Also, I have effectively unlimited access to spent coffee grounds (1-3 days old) and crushed eggshells (in pieces 1mm across or smaller). Would either of these benefit the bed or casing layer?
Thanks in advance.
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stonesun
Sclerotia Aficionado



Registered: 05/22/09
Posts: 5,444
Loc: 64º08'00"N 21º56'00"W
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Re: Stropharia rugoso-annulata bed and casing composition (moved) [Re: mindful]
#19225624 - 12/04/13 08:01 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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This thread was moved from Mushroom Cultivation.
Reason: Belongs here
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HypnotoadCroaked
Retired, but will check MSGs

Registered: 01/05/13
Posts: 1,168
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Re: Stropharia rugoso-annulata bed and casing composition (moved) [Re: stonesun]
#19225643 - 12/04/13 08:05 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I will be watching this thread. Im sorry I have no advice, but I have a family member who has the EXACT same story about is SRA patch from last year. Anything that I can learn will certainly advance his enjoyment.
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psylosymonreturns
aka Gym Sporrison



Registered: 10/16/09
Posts: 13,948
Loc: Mos Eisley,
Last seen: 3 years, 6 months
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Re: Stropharia rugoso-annulata bed and casing composition (moved) [Re: HypnotoadCroaked]
#19225973 - 12/04/13 10:02 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Hey man,
So you got that from Asheville fungi!? Isn't that our very own Amanita Virosa's gig?
If so that strain may be mine! I created a strain a few years ago called ABC which I traded to him.
I find everyone makes cultivation of woodlovers out to be some hard thing to achieve. The truth be told, growing aggressive woodlovers outdoors in woodchip patches is simple and only as hard as you make it. SRA is extremely vigorous. Once those grains touch some woodchips its on!! I would consider, if its winter , to get those grains in some buckets or flower pots and mix with some hardwood or fir chips. Get that mycelium running and assimilated to the wood. I dont even bother sterilizing my chips anymore , but you payed for that stuff so its most common to go from grain spawn to sterilized chips. And then make your patch with the chip spawn. You can use grain spawn to make the patch but small critters love the stuff so I dont recommend it. Not sure where you heard about casing? Thats an Agaricus thing. You dont case outdoor patchesof SRA, but that said, if you did it would not be detrimental. This species is extremely easy theres not much it wont eat.I once recycled my dads garlic waste with SRA. I have gotten massive flushes from patches I made only 5-6 months before. I have made them in the fall and gotten spring summer fruits and made in the spring and gotten summer/fall fruits.
IMO , keep it simple , all it needs is fresh woodchips, water and shade.Non of that extra shit.
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mindful
Stranger
Registered: 12/04/13
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Re: Stropharia rugoso-annulata bed and casing composition (moved) [Re: psylosymonreturns]
#19226121 - 12/04/13 11:01 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Thanks for the advice about additional nutrients. If this is your strain then I'm glad to be part of keeping it going.
To me, a layer of leaf mulch makes sense to moderate the temps and moisture levels in the bed just a mulch does for garden soil. What do you think about using composted leaf mulch as a top dressing, regardless of whether or not one calls it casing?
As far as casing SRA goes, I've read that it's mandatory, it's unnecessary, and everything in between. For the record, a number of threads on this site recommend casing for SRA --
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/13040991 http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/2553570 http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18348177 http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/14134687
And this site says, " the quality of casing soil has great affect to the production of stropharia".
I realize that SRA has a reputation for being vigorous (that's one of the reasons I'm trying it) and will forgive some mistakes. But my previous bed colonized the medium and didn't fruit, so I'm trying to give this batch ideal conditions to optimize my chances.
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Brooks
Stranger

Registered: 12/03/13
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Re: Stropharia rugoso-annulata bed and casing composition [Re: mindful]
#19226196 - 12/04/13 11:25 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Hello mindful, I'm a huge fan of Wine-Caps a.k.a. the Godzilla mushroom (Stropharia rugoso-annulata) Been growing them for years in MA and a few places in northern NY. The key to success is having the proper moisture content in your substrate when spawning...(inoculation) If your substrate is too dry mycelium will get cottony and die, if too wet expect a lot of mold and bacteria to out-compete even this aggressive species. For optimal results place corrugated cardboard down that has been saturated in water. (If you want to plant veggies (recommended) cut holes in the cardboard and flag 'em off to transplant into later) Then mix 50:50 hardwood sawdust and woodchips, slowly adding water and mixing constantly in a pile. Enough water has been added when you can pick up a handful and some sawdust will ball together, but water does not squeeze out more than a drop (Moisture content = 60-65%). Spread a 4" depth of this mixture onto the wet cardboard. Then rake in either grain or sawdust spawn to the spread at a rate of 1 lb for every 2-3 sq.ft. You will have faster better results with more spawn per sq.ft., but this can be costly if you don't manufacture your own spawn. That's it, sit back and watch. It should take 4-6 months of growing to sustain a crop. I like to plant veggies into those cardboard spaces after spawning like peppers, broccoli, kale, strawberries or blueberries, etc. They shade the mushrooms and help them maintain that nice red wine cap hue. If left out in the sun expect whiter caps and lower yields due to drying out. A casing is not necessary for outdoor cultivation, Casing is used to introduce beneficial bacteria to stimulate fruiting, and also to maintain moisture. Outside we can use garden plants to help maintain moisture and the soil will be loaded with bacteria free of charge!
I've tried sawdust spawn from Field and Forest Products & Fungi Perfecti, Spores from Sporeworks, and grain spawn from Aloha Medicinals. The largest mushrooms were from Aloha, called Kirch strain! But what matters most is the moisture content and substrate type. It's true many diverse substrates will work for this species, but don't expect the same yield.
Best of Mushrooms,
Brooks
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mindful
Stranger
Registered: 12/04/13
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Re: Stropharia rugoso-annulata bed and casing composition [Re: Brooks]
#19228825 - 12/04/13 08:51 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Hi Brooks, Thanks for the advice. My previous bed may have failed because it got too wet -- we had a very rainy early summer. I may have also under-inoculated. Field & Forest recommended 1 pound of plug spawn for 10 square feet in 3" of wood chips, and I followed that suggestion. It seems like you're recommending much denser inoculation. I don't mind over-inoculating since I plan to keep this bed going for a long time by adding fresh chips, so I see the cost of the spawn as a one-time expense.
Do you lay down the cardboard specifically to avoid ground contact? I understood that soil contact was beneficial to SRA.
Eventually I plan to plant veggies in an SRA bed, but not in this one. Since there won't be any green cover, do you think a humidity-preserving layer will be beneficial?
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psylosymonreturns
aka Gym Sporrison



Registered: 10/16/09
Posts: 13,948
Loc: Mos Eisley,
Last seen: 3 years, 6 months
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Re: Stropharia rugoso-annulata bed and casing composition [Re: mindful]
#19229701 - 12/05/13 12:33 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Under inoculation or your spawn was weak. Its pretty tough to mess these up. I have given friends just a gallon pot 3/4 full of chip spawn and he spread chips under his blueberry plants, like a 5 ' x 8 ' patch and he just spread it around lke a noob and got fruits in 6 months.
I get hired to do SRA inocs in my tme off in the spring. I did a huge patch last year in this small orchard of like 12 apple trees and it spreads into a huge organic garden.
There is wood chip paths that are connected and all have mycelium.
Here is a few pics. I dont really take SRA pics much anymore as I have seen soooo many bloody wine caps.
This is some early summer fruiting under the apple trees. Over head shade is key, and just letting weeds and grass and shit grow freely is as as well. Just let it be a wild place mushrooms would want to grow.
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mindful
Stranger
Registered: 12/04/13
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Re: Stropharia rugoso-annulata bed and casing composition [Re: psylosymonreturns]
#19235473 - 12/06/13 08:08 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Thanks, all. If I had a shroom cap for each piece of contradictory advice I've read on these, I wouldn't need to grow them myself. The good news is that the success reported with wildly differing techniques suggests to me that they're very forgiving. I will over-inoculate this time to eliminate that as a possible cause of failure.
I read an interesting paper (Fruit Optimization with Wastes Used for Outdoor Cultivation of King Stropharia, Domondon and Poppe) as published in Volume 2 of Science and Cultivation of Edible Fungi (Mushroom Science XV) edited by L. J. L. D. Van Griensven (2000). It echoes a number of the tips I've read elsewhere, such as --
- Using wood chips as a substrate gives double the BE of the second-best substrate (sawdust)
- A slightly convex bed (rather than flat or concave) sheds excess rain and keeps the substrate from getting too wet
- 70% shade seemed ideal
- SRA likes low salt (conductivity) levels, so adding manure or whatnot to the substrate is not recommended
- SRA seems to like a well-aerated substrate (as opposed to Pleurotus which can tolerate high CO2 levels)
- They recommend a casing layer of 1:1 garden soil and "pale peat"
- They "often observed a close association of white Stropharia rhizomorphs with the roots of herbs and grasses as a peritrophic mycorrhizas".
- Harvest when caps are closed or half open
I was surprised to read that deliberate cultivation wasn't attempted until the mid 1960s. We've come a long way!
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psylosymonreturns
aka Gym Sporrison



Registered: 10/16/09
Posts: 13,948
Loc: Mos Eisley,
Last seen: 3 years, 6 months
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Re: Stropharia rugoso-annulata bed and casing composition [Re: mindful]
#19236907 - 12/06/13 02:43 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Ya the reason for all the contradictory advice is that they are just so damb easy. You could do what ever you want and it will work.
You could do nothing and still get fruits like this blueberry farm I found that had a monstrous wild patch. This puppy fell over from its own weight!!!
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