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Offlinekobalt
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Kobalt's HEPA Filtered, self healing jar lids tek
    #19177737 - 11/23/13 05:00 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

so after having 8 jars go bad on me, i decided to develop a jar lid that should be a whole lot more effective.  In the past i was using a self healing port, but with a polyfill gas exchange filter.  Inefficient and doesnt have the look i want lol. 

So here is what I did.

This was my HEPA material.  I dont know if it is true HEPA or not, but it looks and feels legit, and was about $12.  They are Vacuum bags.

I cut out probably 3/4" squares of the bag, keeping all layers.


I then drilled 2, 1/4" holes in each jar lid, and spread a layer of silicone around one of the holes, all the way up to the hole, and bigger then my filter patch.


Added my filter patch


I added more silicone and overlapped it onto the filter patch, making sure there were no gaps for air to enter other then the patch.  I also made the self healing injection port by shooting some silicone through the hole, adding a glob on each side of the lid, and swirling it all together.


The bottom side of the lid, no silicone for the bottom of the patch.  In the future, i will probably make 2 or 4, 1/16" holes around the patch hole to anchor the silicone to the bottom of the lid without interfering with the patch.


Finished lids


They are currently drying and have not been tested yet.  The only real issue i can see in the future is the silicone peeling around the filter patch, but you probably want to replace that every 3-4 uses anyways.

Comments, questions?  i.e. "you're stupid and these will never work...fuckface" *Christopher Walken voice*

kobalt


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Offlineghiajake
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Re: Kobalt's HEPA Filtered, self healing jar lids tek [Re: kobalt]
    #19179636 - 11/23/13 04:48 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Good ingenuity using what you've got, but I'd really suggest spending the cash to make some great lids. It doesn't really cost much if you look at the replacement cost of using metal lids and having to make them all over again. Here's a pic of the lids I make now. Went through several different types of lids and these seem to be the best so far.



If you drill your holes right you won't need any silicone sealer. A 1/4" stainless steel pipe will slide in tight on the bottom of the inoculation port. A small piece can be used as a backstop to keep the noc port from pulling back out. Just cut the length of your pipe to the depth of your jar for no-tilt liquid culture jars. The great thing about not using silicone is that they are easy to take apart to wash and put back together again. And the plastic lids don't rust! These can be made for less than $2.50 each and will greatly increase your success rate. They have mine!


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Kobalt's HEPA Filtered, self healing jar lids tek [Re: kobalt] * 1
    #19180213 - 11/23/13 07:29 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Dude, forget the 'self healing port' thing.  Just inject right through the polyfill.

Vacuum bags ain't HEPA, nor are they designed to withstand heat. The total package is HEPA when you use the paper filter on the discharge.
RR


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OfflineAmanita virosa
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Re: Kobalt's HEPA Filtered, self healing jar lids tek [Re: kobalt]
    #19180648 - 11/23/13 09:48 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

kobalt said:
so after having 8 jars go bad on me, i decided to develop a jar lid that should be a whole lot more effective.  In the past i was using a self healing port, but with a polyfill gas exchange filter.  Inefficient and doesnt have the look i want lol. 

So here is what I did.

This was my HEPA material.  I dont know if it is true HEPA or not, but it looks and feels legit, and was about $12.  They are Vacuum bags.

I cut out probably 3/4" squares of the bag, keeping all layers.


I then drilled 2, 1/4" holes in each jar lid, and spread a layer of silicone around one of the holes, all the way up to the hole, and bigger then my filter patch.


Added my filter patch


I added more silicone and overlapped it onto the filter patch, making sure there were no gaps for air to enter other then the patch.  I also made the self healing injection port by shooting some silicone through the hole, adding a glob on each side of the lid, and swirling it all together.


The bottom side of the lid, no silicone for the bottom of the patch.  In the future, i will probably make 2 or 4, 1/16" holes around the patch hole to anchor the silicone to the bottom of the lid without interfering with the patch.


Finished lids


They are currently drying and have not been tested yet.  The only real issue i can see in the future is the silicone peeling around the filter patch, but you probably want to replace that every 3-4 uses anyways.

Comments, questions?  i.e. "you're stupid and these will never work...fuckface" *Christopher Walken voice*

kobalt




If you must make these consider cutting up a sfd instead of the vacuum bags since  you have no idea bout it's  gas exchange rate, pore diameter and heat tolerance. Your taking a lot for granted there.


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Offlinekobalt
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Re: Kobalt's HEPA Filtered, self healing jar lids tek [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #19180962 - 11/24/13 12:04 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

i know polyfill is tried and true, and that is what ive used in the past, i was just trying something different.  I like the look of the injection port better, and its just stuff i had sitting around so why not? 

Can you explain more about why they are not HEPA?  I dont quite understand. 

And just for refrence, this is more of an experiment then anything.  Just thought i would throw it up on teh old forums. 

ko


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OfflineValyr
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Re: Kobalt's HEPA Filtered, self healing jar lids tek [Re: kobalt]
    #19184272 - 11/24/13 07:50 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

There not hepa cause they dont filter out to the same micron.


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Offlinekobalt
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Re: Kobalt's HEPA Filtered, self healing jar lids tek [Re: Valyr]
    #19184333 - 11/24/13 08:08 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Valyr said:
There not hepa cause they dont filter out to the same micron.




Then why can the package say that it is HEPA and that it filters out mold spores?  Look on my first pic, it is not just a normal vaccum bag, it even says HEPA on it.  See these amazon links

"Filtrete Vacuum Bags help trap 99.97% of all airborne pollutants 0.3 microns or larger, including mold spores, pet dander, grass and ragweed pollen" (this is not even the HEPA varient, just the micro allergen)
http://www.amazon.com/3M-Filtrete-Hoover-Type-Vacuum/dp/B001ANXOKE

"Removes 99.97% of all airborne particles as small as 0.3 microns in size" Different brand, but you get the idea.
http://www.amazon.com/Hoover-Type-HEPA-Filter-Bag/dp/B000CS8M2S/ref=pd_bxgy_hg_text_y

I am not trying to be argumentative or a know it all or whatever.  But correct me if i am wrong, these specs are what we are looking for in filtered air exchange right?


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OfflineValyr
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Re: Kobalt's HEPA Filtered, self healing jar lids tek [Re: kobalt]
    #19184842 - 11/24/13 10:45 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

No not at all man. Im a newb to the feild myself so I was probably wrong aswell. Perhaps RR meant that there not the 99.99% hepa that are used in things like making a flowhood? Though that doesnt coincide with " the complete package is hepa when it passes through the screen filter on discharge" statement.

I dont know the percentages on sfd but I would think that even a 99.97% would be better than wadded up pollyfill lol.

Though the issue of whether the material the filter is made out of can withstand the pressures, temperatures of a pc sterilization is another matter.

Also on another note, is that high temperature silicone? If its not it will melt and pool out like hot glue when you pc it.


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OfflineValyr
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Re: Kobalt's HEPA Filtered, self healing jar lids tek [Re: Valyr]
    #19184847 - 11/24/13 10:47 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

From experience on that last one lol :smile:


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OfflineKizzle
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Re: Kobalt's HEPA Filtered, self healing jar lids tek [Re: kobalt]
    #19184858 - 11/24/13 10:51 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Your missing the key word. "Filtrete Vacuum Bags help trap 99.97%..." The vacuum uses another filter as well.


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OfflineCaptainpaps
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Re: Kobalt's HEPA Filtered, self healing jar lids tek [Re: Kizzle]
    #19184921 - 11/24/13 11:05 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

just go to walmart buy some plastic canning lids, go to home depot get high temp RV silicone gasket maker, go to the post office ask for some tvec envelopes, then do exactly what you did but do with the tvec and the high heat silicone BAM! :thumbup:



Edited by Captainpaps (11/24/13 11:07 PM)


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Offlinekobalt
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Re: Kobalt's HEPA Filtered, self healing jar lids tek [Re: Valyr]
    #19185418 - 11/25/13 03:33 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Oh yeah i forgot about the post bag filter.  But to be honest, having a true high density filter material is probably better then polyfill.  And no, i dont use High Temp RTV.  Just ACE brand Clear silicone tub and tile.  Ive never had any issues with it melting or anything, and i always let it cure for at least 14 hours before it goes into the PC.  True silicone is resistant to temps up to 500 degrees f anyways right?  or does it depend on the formulation?

Yeah ill look into getting some Tvec, but this was just what i had on hand, and was 2 in the morning, so i figured why not. 

Im not completely sold on plastic lids, ive read about people having issues with them sealing properly.  Metal lids are cheaper anyways.


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Offlineghiajake
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Re: Kobalt's HEPA Filtered, self healing jar lids tek [Re: kobalt]
    #19186048 - 11/25/13 09:31 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Properly made lids are way cheaper in the long run man. Take it from everyone here who's already experimented on all the ways to make lids. If you don't have any polyfil, go to a thrift shop and buy some stuffed animals, rip out there guts and there you go.


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OfflineValyr
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Re: Kobalt's HEPA Filtered, self healing jar lids tek [Re: ghiajake]
    #19186157 - 11/25/13 10:01 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Again just a newb making a guess but I would assume it would have to be the formulation cause I baught some regular tub and tile stuff from walmart my first attempt at making lids and it pooled out on me and ran into the drilled holes and made a mess. Tossed the entire batch. Perhaps it also has something to do with our altitudes?

I have plastic lids myself and the only thing ive noticed is that after pressure cooking you often need to tighten the lids back down. Dont know if thats particular to plastic or not though since ive never used metal. Also Ive yet to get a contam (knock on some wood) in any of my jars so it doesnt seem to be too much of a threat. Still a beginner though :smile:. Done a total of maybe 36 jars in my career since switching from pf tek (I always baught my pf tek jars premade. Went right to wbs once i purchased my pc.).

I never used metal just cause i dont like how the metal ones rust. Its ugly and I just dont like it lol. I saw it on stuff my mom cans from her garden each year so I knew in advance i didnt want it.


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OfflineKalypto
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Re: Kobalt's HEPA Filtered, self healing jar lids tek [Re: Valyr]
    #19186184 - 11/25/13 10:09 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Why not use tyvek?


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OfflineKizzle
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Re: Kobalt's HEPA Filtered, self healing jar lids tek [Re: Valyr]
    #19186200 - 11/25/13 10:14 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

But to be honest, having a true high density filter material is probably better then polyfill.



Not necessarily. Cotton has a long successful history that can't be denied. Polyfill is pretty much the same thing except the material itself is more resistant to contamination.

I would say though if you're going to invest in something, invest in some filter discs they're cheap and made specifically for this purpose. I honestly don't know what they're made of but I'd bet it's something similar to polyfill. In fact tyvek is similar to polyfill, it's just matter of the material being woven together which holds it together all the time. The same thing happens when you 'wedge', it doesn't really need to be tight though, polyfill in a hole. It just doesn't maintain the consistency of a fabric, you can easily pull it apart again.



Edited by Kizzle (11/25/13 10:28 AM)


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Re: Kobalt's HEPA Filtered, self healing jar lids tek [Re: Kizzle] * 1
    #19191393 - 11/26/13 10:58 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

For $12 you can buy ten 90mm SFD's and make 90 lids. :tongue:


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OfflineAmanita virosa
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Re: Kobalt's HEPA Filtered, self healing jar lids tek [Re: Captainpaps]
    #19191493 - 11/26/13 11:23 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Captainpaps said:
just go to walmart buy some plastic canning lids, go to home depot get high temp RV silicone gasket maker, go to the post office ask for some tvec envelopes, then do exactly what you did but do with the tvec and the high heat silicone BAM! :thumbup:





You do not even need high heat silicone.  In fact, hi heat silicone doesn't stick nearly as well as 100% silicone in a tube.  I have run  these lids thru many cycles in the clave and they are still fine.  The red hi temp stuff comes unglued way sooner. 


however, we always use sfd's full size now and on the inside of the jar as they were intended to be used.  Of course, no good if you are shooting up with needles, but great for agar to spawn and spawn to spawn jars.


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OfflineKalypto
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Re: Kobalt's HEPA Filtered, self healing jar lids tek [Re: Amanita virosa]
    #19191499 - 11/26/13 11:24 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Amanita virosa said:
Quote:

Captainpaps said:
just go to walmart buy some plastic canning lids, go to home depot get high temp RV silicone gasket maker, go to the post office ask for some tvec envelopes, then do exactly what you did but do with the tvec and the high heat silicone BAM! :thumbup:





You do not even need high heat silicone.  In fact, hi heat silicone doesn't stick nearly as well as 100% silicone in a tube.  I have run  these lids thru many cycles in the clave and they are still fine.  The red hi temp stuff comes unglued way sooner. 


however, we always use sfd's full size now and on the inside of the jar as they were intended to be used.  Of course, no good if you are shooting up with needles, but great for agar to spawn and spawn to spawn jars.




:whathesaid:


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Offlinedrake89
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Re: Kobalt's HEPA Filtered, self healing jar lids tek [Re: Kalypto]
    #19191523 - 11/26/13 11:30 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

my goodness, is this advanced?


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