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 crumblebum
The Guy Who's Really Bad At Sex
Registered: 04/24/07
Posts: 1,459
Last seen: 3 years, 5 months
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 Kyriarchy: What's up with that? 
#18891122 - 09/25/13 08:47 PM (10 years, 6 months ago) |
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per wikipedia:
"Kyriarchy ("rule by a lord"; from the Greek κύριος/kyrios "lord or master" and αρχή/arche "authority, leadership") is a social system or set of connecting social systems built around domination, oppression, and submission. The word itself is a neologism coined by Elisabeth Schüssler Fiorenza to describe interconnected, interacting, and self-extending systems of domination and submission, in which a single individual might be oppressed in some relationships and privileged in others.[1] It is an intersectional extension of the idea of patriarchy[1] beyond gender. Kyriarchy encompasses sexism, racism, economic injustice, and other forms of dominating hierarchy in which the subordination of one person or group to another is internalized and institutionalized.[2]"
So how do you change that? It's descriptive of the whole of human civilization, really. What could be done to erode it, and what could replace it?
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 Penelope_Tree
Shamanic Panic
Registered: 07/31/09
Posts: 8,535
Loc: magic sugarcastle
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 Re: Kyriarchy: What's up with that? [Re: crumblebum]
#18891298 - 09/25/13 09:28 PM (10 years, 6 months ago) |
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Being aware of it, being aware of your own behavior & intentions... probably just those two things.
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full blown human
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DisoRDeR
motional
Registered: 08/29/02
Posts: 1,158
Loc: nonsensistan
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Re: Kyriarchy: What's up with that? [Re: crumblebum]
#18891591 - 09/25/13 10:19 PM (10 years, 6 months ago) |
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As PT said, it could be slowly eroded through self-awareness.
As for replacing it, I doubt the potential for domination can be weeded out of the species. In that case, we could try to impose an impersonal 'lord' and create rule by law. It would be somewhat effective the extent that the law is structured around protecting people from oppression.
Isn't this what we do now (poorly)?
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Repertoire89
Cat
Registered: 11/15/12
Posts: 22,536
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Re: Kyriarchy: What's up with that? [Re: crumblebum]
#18891635 - 09/25/13 10:24 PM (10 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
crumblebum said:
So how do you change that? It's descriptive of the whole of human civilization, really. What could be done to erode it, and what could replace it?
Kill all the humans, that would be the only way. Better not to IMO
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crumblebum
The Guy Who's Really Bad At Sex
Registered: 04/24/07
Posts: 1,459
Last seen: 3 years, 5 months
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Re: Kyriarchy: What's up with that? [Re: Penelope_Tree]
#18891645 - 09/25/13 10:26 PM (10 years, 6 months ago) |
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My awareness of it can't possible be enough. I have very little impact. I don't oppress anyone except my cats who are assholes.
I suppose it's just a kind of final expression of the fundamental problem of the civilization we've built so far. But what can we do about it? It's so damned effective, the systems of "lordship" that have emerged. It's addictive and everyone wants it. It's the suggestion that you could some day be a lord, or within the lords circle, etc.
Do we even have reasonable alternatives? Is there any form of collectivism that can produce results that are even similar? Communism has eaten itself alive at every turn.
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White Beard
Registered: 08/13/11
Posts: 6,325
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Re: Kyriarchy: What's up with that? *DELETED* [Re: crumblebum]
#18891826 - 09/25/13 10:58 PM (10 years, 6 months ago) |
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Post deleted by White BeardReason for deletion: .
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Penelope_Tree
Shamanic Panic
Registered: 07/31/09
Posts: 8,535
Loc: magic sugarcastle
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Re: Kyriarchy: What's up with that? [Re: crumblebum]
#18891861 - 09/25/13 11:06 PM (10 years, 6 months ago) |
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I think Environmentalism is promising.  Or Anarchism, but not in the angsty, oppresed-by-capitalism way. Like, the we-recognize-obligations-and-don't-need-institutions-to-enforce-them sort of way.
"Nuke Humanity."  C'mon guys, be creative.
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full blown human
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crumblebum
The Guy Who's Really Bad At Sex
Registered: 04/24/07
Posts: 1,459
Last seen: 3 years, 5 months
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Re: Kyriarchy: What's up with that? [Re: Penelope_Tree]
#18891880 - 09/25/13 11:14 PM (10 years, 6 months ago) |
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As much as the "nuke everything" reply might have been meant as witty, it's actually not a terrible suggestion. A lot of the most prominent social changes have been as a result of disaster. The Renaissance owed some of its thunder to the black plague, and women's rights owe a whole lot of steam to WW2.
Hmmm. I forget where I heard it, but I read something about being a good person entailed being able to recognize where opportunities opened up for change, and that opportunistic circumstance has as much to do with change as it does motivation.
Individual "isms" provide interesting models, but the means to implement them have to come naturally or "organically". A nuclear war that wiped out 90% of humanity would be an excellent opportunity to revise humanity.
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Penelope_Tree
Shamanic Panic
Registered: 07/31/09
Posts: 8,535
Loc: magic sugarcastle
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Re: Kyriarchy: What's up with that? [Re: crumblebum]
#18891999 - 09/25/13 11:52 PM (10 years, 6 months ago) |
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I sympathize that it is a much more difficult task to alter multi-level, complex systems than to "destroy" those systems. However, a "nuke 'em" mentality is a sort of "desire for lordship by means of domination and at the expense of submission & oppression" mentality like the OP seems to say is what got us here in the first place. So, you jump from the kettle and into the fire?
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crumblebum
The Guy Who's Really Bad At Sex
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Re: Kyriarchy: What's up with that? [Re: Penelope_Tree]
#18892172 - 09/26/13 12:34 AM (10 years, 6 months ago) |
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I don't think there'd be any intentionality in it, that wasn't exactly what I meant. I'm not saying that a catastrophic event could or should be manufactured to effect change; rather, it would take an incidental catastrophe to spurn said change.
So, not so much "nuke 'em" as "wait for them to nuke each other and then be reticent of the opportunity it presents".
Catastrophe is inevitable, and we would have to take maximum advantage of those catastrophes.
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DisoRDeR
motional
Registered: 08/29/02
Posts: 1,158
Loc: nonsensistan
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Re: Kyriarchy: What's up with that? [Re: crumblebum]
#18892389 - 09/26/13 01:56 AM (10 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
crumblebum said:
My awareness of it can't possible be enough. I have very little impact.
I think the idea behind being self-aware is that by acting in such a manner we may very slowly spread a culture of self-awareness. Any other initiatives which restructure society away from kyriarchy without resorting to relationships of domination are going to evolve out of self-awareness and take effect through democracy. Majority rule itself poses problems though, but it seems like the most dilute form of oppression we have available.
Otherwise, yeah... effect any local change you are able to, the most local change being internal.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Kyriarchy: What's up with that? [Re: White Beard]
#18892589 - 09/26/13 04:01 AM (10 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
White Beard said:
What could be done to erode it
Lots of nukes.
and what could replace it?
Nuclear winter and cockroaches.
PT is wrong, this is the creative solution. The rest is just 
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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.
" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.
With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Repertoire89
Cat
Registered: 11/15/12
Posts: 22,536
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Re: Kyriarchy: What's up with that? [Re: Penelope_Tree]
#18893643 - 09/26/13 11:35 AM (10 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Penelope_Tree said:
"Nuke Humanity." C'mon guys, be creative.
There is no hope for humanity changing its ways, unless it were enslaved in some way through nanobots and AI maybe. So I guess things could get worse
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Schmendrick
Last of the Red Hot Swamis
Registered: 08/04/13
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Re: Kyriarchy: What's up with that? [Re: Repertoire89]
#18893761 - 09/26/13 12:15 PM (10 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
My awareness of it can't possible be enough. I have very little impact. I don't oppress anyone except my cats who are assholes.
We are all oppressors on some level, just as we are all oppressed. As a member of a first-world civilization, almost every action you take on a daily basis involves using energy and consuming some product or other. You use far more energy than your fair share from a global perspective, as does everyone in the "civilized" world. This energy usage and consumption requires fuel and raw materials which we appropriate from poorer countries through strong-arm tactics and government-level deals which do not benefit the average citizen of those countries. We use their fuel and resources and give nothing in return to the citizens. The quality of life of people in those countries suffers because of our decadent over-abundance. To those people, we are all very much "the oppressors"; even your cats.
Edited by Schmendrick (09/26/13 12:17 PM)
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crumblebum
The Guy Who's Really Bad At Sex
Registered: 04/24/07
Posts: 1,459
Last seen: 3 years, 5 months
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Re: Kyriarchy: What's up with that? [Re: Schmendrick]
#18893910 - 09/26/13 12:55 PM (10 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Schmendrick said:
Quote:
My awareness of it can't possible be enough. I have very little impact. I don't oppress anyone except my cats who are assholes.
We are all oppressors on some level, just as we are all oppressed. As a member of a first-world civilization, almost every action you take on a daily basis involves using energy and consuming some product or other. You use far more energy than your fair share from a global perspective, as does everyone in the "civilized" world. This energy usage and consumption requires fuel and raw materials which we appropriate from poorer countries through strong-arm tactics and government-level deals which do not benefit the average citizen of those countries. We use their fuel and resources and give nothing in return to the citizens. The quality of life of people in those countries suffers because of our decadent over-abundance. To those people, we are all very much "the oppressors"; even your cats.
Especially my cats, the assholes.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Kyriarchy: What's up with that? [Re: Schmendrick]
#18893978 - 09/26/13 01:17 PM (10 years, 6 months ago) |
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We are all oppressors on some level, just as we are all oppressed.
Oh I agree. That's why I just go about my business trying to have all the fun I can in any way I can. 
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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.
" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.
With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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viktor
psychotechnician
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Re: Kyriarchy: What's up with that? [Re: Schmendrick]
#18893987 - 09/26/13 01:20 PM (10 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Schmendrick said:
Quote:
My awareness of it can't possible be enough. I have very little impact. I don't oppress anyone except my cats who are assholes.
We are all oppressors on some level, just as we are all oppressed. As a member of a first-world civilization, almost every action you take on a daily basis involves using energy and consuming some product or other. You use far more energy than your fair share from a global perspective, as does everyone in the "civilized" world. This energy usage and consumption requires fuel and raw materials which we appropriate from poorer countries through strong-arm tactics and government-level deals which do not benefit the average citizen of those countries. We use their fuel and resources and give nothing in return to the citizens. The quality of life of people in those countries suffers because of our decadent over-abundance. To those people, we are all very much "the oppressors"; even your cats.
It's only oppression if I suffer from it though. If I benefit then they deserve to be oppressed.
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"They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."
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Memories
Registered: 05/09/12
Posts: 10,484
Loc: Suwannee River
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Re: Kyriarchy: What's up with that? [Re: Schmendrick]
#18895923 - 09/26/13 08:44 PM (10 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Schmendrick said:
Quote:
My awareness of it can't possible be enough. I have very little impact. I don't oppress anyone except my cats who are assholes.
We are all oppressors on some level, just as we are all oppressed. As a member of a first-world civilization, almost every action you take on a daily basis involves using energy and consuming some product or other. You use far more energy than your fair share from a global perspective, as does everyone in the "civilized" world. This energy usage and consumption requires fuel and raw materials which we appropriate from poorer countries through strong-arm tactics and government-level deals which do not benefit the average citizen of those countries. We use their fuel and resources and give nothing in return to the citizens. The quality of life of people in those countries suffers because of our decadent over-abundance. To those people, we are all very much "the oppressors"; even your cats.
The poor countries choose to produce our goods because it is better than their shit alternatives.
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Memories
Registered: 05/09/12
Posts: 10,484
Loc: Suwannee River
Last seen: 3 years, 11 months
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Re: Kyriarchy: What's up with that? [Re: crumblebum]
#18895928 - 09/26/13 08:45 PM (10 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
crumblebum said:
per wikipedia:
"Kyriarchy ("rule by a lord"; from the Greek κύριος/kyrios "lord or master" and αρχή/arche "authority, leadership") is a social system or set of connecting social systems built around domination, oppression, and submission. The word itself is a neologism coined by Elisabeth Schüssler Fiorenza to describe interconnected, interacting, and self-extending systems of domination and submission, in which a single individual might be oppressed in some relationships and privileged in others.[1] It is an intersectional extension of the idea of patriarchy[1] beyond gender. Kyriarchy encompasses sexism, racism, economic injustice, and other forms of dominating hierarchy in which the subordination of one person or group to another is internalized and institutionalized.[2]"
So how do you change that? It's descriptive of the whole of human civilization, really. What could be done to erode it, and what could replace it?
I think you need these types of systems to promote trade which in turn promotes prosperity.
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