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Offlinewindowlikcer
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Why don't people question consciousness?
    #18517754 - 07/05/13 07:50 PM (10 years, 8 months ago)

I think it is perplexing that many people, at least in my society today, have a hyper-rational view of reality that discards consciousness as some sort of by-product of the brain. Many of these people don't want to think or talk about things like spiritualism and mysticism, yet to even come across these concepts they are using their imagination and their power of thought.

When you imagine an object, say a coffee cup, the image of that coffee cup is there, you can "look" at it, yet it doesn't exist anywhere in space. Just this simple experience that everyone has every day is absolutely incredible to me.

How can we avoid metaphysics and mysticism if by even thinking about them we are clearly exercising a transcendent power?

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OfflinePsilosopherr
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Re: Why don't people question consciousness? [Re: windowlikcer]
    #18517791 - 07/05/13 07:55 PM (10 years, 8 months ago)

Religion is just an extremely awkward subject when people don't agree. same with politics, IMO at least

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Offlinewindowlikcer
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Re: Why don't people question consciousness? [Re: Psilosopherr]
    #18517865 - 07/05/13 08:11 PM (10 years, 8 months ago)

I agree, but consciousness transcends religion, everyone experiences being the experiencerregardless of their religion. Its like we have forgotten how incredible it is to be and aren't particularly interested in our own existence. It is almost depressing to see.

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OfflinePsilosopherr
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Re: Why don't people question consciousness? [Re: windowlikcer]
    #18517907 - 07/05/13 08:22 PM (10 years, 8 months ago)

haha your screen name. I love aphex twin long time
amon tobin is a similar amazing artist if you know him

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Offlinecircastes
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Re: Why don't people question consciousness? [Re: Psilosopherr]
    #18518722 - 07/06/13 12:30 AM (10 years, 8 months ago)

Considering consciousness a by product of the brain is a very primitive understanding and it is merely a paradigm that is way overdue to shift.

Get on top of it yourself and learn about your consciousness, eventually you will find it transcending the physical.

It's great, it's really, really great, that consciousness is the fundamental reality.


--------------------
My solitude...
My shield...
My armour...

TESTED
WITH
FULL
FORCE

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Why don't people question consciousness? [Re: windowlikcer]
    #18519109 - 07/06/13 03:39 AM (10 years, 8 months ago)

How can we avoid metaphysics and mysticism if by even thinking about them we are clearly exercising a transcendent power?

transcending what exactly?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Offlineviktor
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Re: Why don't people question consciousness? [Re: Icelander]
    #18519160 - 07/06/13 04:18 AM (10 years, 8 months ago)

The physical world?


--------------------
"They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."

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Invisiblebudbud420
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Re: Why don't people question consciousness? [Re: viktor]
    #18519185 - 07/06/13 05:05 AM (10 years, 8 months ago)

There are to many distractions for alot of people to have time to think about consiousness.

Money, work, ego, technology and many otger things are hindering a psychological evolution in humans.

I believe talking about it to as many people as possible will do alot of good. I mean what have you got to lose?

Even if people dont take to the idea instantly they will no doubt ponder on it at some stage and if they retaliate to the idea in a negative way it would probly be because it makes them feel less intelligent than they believed they were.

Everyone liles to think they know everything.

If i was still trapped inside my "bubble" of a small thinking spectrum I know I would feel un-wise yet deffinately intrigued.

But everyones different.


--------------------

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Offlinezzripz
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Re: Why don't people question consciousness? [Re: viktor]
    #18519187 - 07/06/13 05:08 AM (10 years, 8 months ago)

It is interesting to explore the roots of this VAST schism of the modern mind which separates spirit from matter.
Let us go back to the 'God' who fashions Adam out of clay, and then, annd thennnn 'breathes' into his puppet, hence the ancient Greek word for breath, pneuma, means in a religious contect, 'spirit'. Of course this patriarchal tale has 'HIM' then somehow having the male birth the female, Eve! Totally unnatural.

Contrast that with the Goddess mythology where She fashions the first created out of clay which is her body. Implying that spirit and consciousness is infused with matter from the beginning!

OK fast forward to Rene Descartes who believes the God myth. He 'THINKS' 'I think therefore I am', and assumes this thinking 'rational' aspect of himeself is his major being, and from there he looks at his body as an object--as a machine--and he does the same looking at other bodies. HOWEVER he 'tyhinks' that only humans have a rational soul which is connected with the 'rational God' via the pineal gland, and assumes horribly that animals are machines and then he and his horrible followers torture them, not feeling any empathy for their cries of pain and horror.

So what has happened here?

Thinking ha dissociated itself--as fucked-up as that sounds--from depth of being. It has lost is soul. It is a mechanical objectifying thing that can torture other beings and not feel their pain as their own subjective pain.

Is the scientific enterprise the glorification of this soul-loss?

Well read this:

Quote:


"The main point of Laing's attack was that science, as it is practiced today, has no way of dealing with consciousness, or with experience, values, ethics, or anything referring to quality. "This situation derives from something that happened in European consciousness at the time of Galileo and Giordano Bruno", Laing began his argument. "These two men epitomize two paradigms - Bruno, who was tortured and burned for saying that there were infinite worlds; and Galileo, who said that the scientific method was to study this world as if there were no consciousness and no living creatures in it. Galileo made the statement that only quantifiable phenomena were admitted to the domain of science. Galileo said: "Whatever cannot be measured and quantified is not scientific"; and in post-Galilean science this came to mean: "What cannot be measured and  quantified is not real."  This has been the most profound corruption from the Greek view of nature as physis, which is alive, always in transformation, and not divorced from us. Galileo's programme offers us a dead world: Out go sight, sound, taste, touch, and smell, and along with them have since gone esthetic and ethical sensibility, values, quality, soul, consciousness, spirit. Experience as such is cast out of the realm of scientific discourse. Hardly anything has changed our world more during the past four hundred years than Galileo's audacious program. We had to destroy the world in theory before we could destroy it in practice."
(Uncommon Wisdom: Conversations with remarkable people, Fritjof Capra,




Psychedelics are sacred medicine and can dramatically magically heal this extremely dangerous soul-loss, but what I see some do--especially from my experience of some member on these boards--is they reduce psychedelic experience according to their pre-existing scientific materialistic myths--as being 'just a chemical ride' 'hallucination' and so on. That is what they 'THINK'.

Edited by zzripz (07/06/13 05:16 AM)

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Offlineviktor
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Re: Why don't people question consciousness? [Re: zzripz]
    #18519258 - 07/06/13 06:32 AM (10 years, 8 months ago)

I agree with almost all of that, aside from the contention that animal cruelty was unknown before Descartes.


--------------------
"They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Why don't people question consciousness? [Re: viktor]
    #18519444 - 07/06/13 08:25 AM (10 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

viktor said:
The physical world?




how?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Offlinezzripz
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Re: Why don't people question consciousness? [Re: viktor]
    #18519523 - 07/06/13 09:02 AM (10 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

viktor said:
I agree with almost all of that, aside from the contention that animal cruelty was unknown before Descartes.




he made it into a 'science'.

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InvisibleChronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
Re: Why don't people question consciousness? [Re: windowlikcer]
    #18519534 - 07/06/13 09:08 AM (10 years, 8 months ago)

It's uncommon to question consciousness because how can you put consciousness infront of consciousness?
Anything you place in view of consciousness is not going to be consciousness as consciousness would be viewing it (beyond)

If you question something you place it infront of your consciousness, you have to be prior to what you are questioning in order to question it, so questioning (thinking about) consciousness will never lead to understanding consciousness as consciousness exists prior to thoughts, the only way to understand consciousness is to stand under consciousness, which is to be aware of consciousness, only awareness is prior to consciousness

Its as simple as being aware of the sense 'I' alone, but its such a subtle thing to question, and when we are so engrossed within form how can something so subtle be questioned?

The simple answer is that people don't question consciousness because they are still chasing their dreams


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Offlinezzripz
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Re: Why don't people question consciousness? [Re: Chronic7]
    #18519580 - 07/06/13 09:27 AM (10 years, 8 months ago)

yes! You mean you can't make an object out of consciousness like some think they can about other 'things'?
Exactly! I have communicated with people at the forums, especially the gang at the philosophy section who can just NOT dig experience as significant in itself. No, they demand evidence evidence as though it is something you would put on a lab workbench.
sad really, but it is a MASSIVE impasse. They are caught up in duality of the knower and the known, but don't realize it

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Offlinezzripz
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Re: Why don't people question consciousness? [Re: zzripz]
    #18519584 - 07/06/13 09:28 AM (10 years, 8 months ago)

Meaning is meaning

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InvisibleChronic7
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Re: Why don't people question consciousness? [Re: zzripz] * 1
    #18519596 - 07/06/13 09:36 AM (10 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

You mean you can't make an object out of consciousness like some think they can about other 'things'?





Yes, as how could you make consciousness into a solid tangible measurable object when consciousness is the one viewing the object

Yet it can be good to make consciousness into an object as that brings your attention to its most original true place, Awareness, making consciousness into an object isn't making it into a solid measurable object, its the most subtle object, the gateway to infinity

Quote:

zzripz said:
I have communicated with people at the forums, especially the gang at the philosophy section who can just NOT dig experience as significant in itself. No, they demand evidence evidence as though it is something you would put on a lab workbench.





The only thing that matters is experience, we are beings that experience & we are addicted to experience beyond belief

I would never want empirical solid evidence of my eternal blissfull infinite nature outside of my own experience, as what use would it be?

To disprove doubters/skeptics? There is no real lasting satisfaction to be had in that, forget it completely, don't waste an iota of your time

The only lasting satisfaction is in our own experience, it is the only thing that matters, nothing else


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Invisiblec0sm0nautt
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Re: Why don't people question consciousness? [Re: windowlikcer] * 2
    #18519618 - 07/06/13 09:42 AM (10 years, 8 months ago)

Does a fish question water? :lol:

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Offlinewindowlikcer
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Re: Why don't people question consciousness? [Re: Icelander]
    #18519758 - 07/06/13 10:35 AM (10 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
How can we avoid metaphysics and mysticism if by even thinking about them we are clearly exercising a transcendent power?

transcending what exactly?




I guess what I mean by transcending is consciousness's ability to negate, to not be. You are only conscious of the world by not being it. That is why, like I said in my first post, you can imagine a coffee cup vividly, yet it is not there in the physical world. Your thought transcends physical reality. So we structure our lives around the physical world without even realizing that the physical world is only known to us through our consciousness of the world as not being the world. So the fact that consciousness is aloof from physical reality is our most intimate experience (it is all experience), yet we seem to take this for granted.

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Offlinezzripz
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Re: Why don't people question consciousness? [Re: windowlikcer]
    #18519917 - 07/06/13 11:22 AM (10 years, 8 months ago)

not aloof

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Offlineclam_dude
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Re: Why don't people question consciousness? [Re: windowlikcer]
    #18520071 - 07/06/13 12:07 PM (10 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

windowlikcer said:
I think it is perplexing that many people, at least in my society today, have a hyper-rational view of reality that discards consciousness as some sort of by-product of the brain. Many of these people don't want to think or talk about things like spiritualism and mysticism, yet to even come across these concepts they are using their imagination and their power of thought.

When you imagine an object, say a coffee cup, the image of that coffee cup is there, you can "look" at it, yet it doesn't exist anywhere in space. Just this simple experience that everyone has every day is absolutely incredible to me.

How can we avoid metaphysics and mysticism if by even thinking about them we are clearly exercising a transcendent power?




I believe in a materialistic world, in that there is nothing else other than material things. Why do I believe that? Because there is not evidence of anything else. 

Now I'm open minded to any possibility.  But if you want to talk about "metaphysics," you should say what exactly you believe in other than just some vague concept of something other than material things.

You're saying there's something out there that's not material. But you're not saying what it is, you're just saying what it's not.


--------------------
"I would like to thank god for making me an atheist" - Ricky Gervais

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