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FrankHorrigan
The Inquisition
Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 10,573
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Experimental Monotub / Shotgun Hybrid 1
#18073194 - 04/07/13 05:19 PM (10 years, 11 months ago) |
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I know a lot of you are familiar with Doc_T's MSG hybrid tub, this is not that. I'm sure someone's done this before but I've never seen much on it. Traditional monotubs have a problem with getting good FAE even when properly dialed in. Citric suggested drilling a series of 1/4" holes for the top holes instead of the usual 1.5" hole I drill up there. I wanted to try this method and see if I could provide a tub with more FAE without sacrificing the RH. This will also make dialing tubs in much easier, as you won't have to mess with loose poly every time.
So to make this tub I measured and drilled two 1.5" holes on each long side. The holes are 4.5" from the sides and 4" from the base of the tub.
Instead of drilling one 1.5" hole on each short side, I measured out an area 2" in diameter by the handle (high up). Then I drilled a series of 1/4" holes, nine in all, within that area. I taped up 5 of them on each side so I can cover and uncover holes to experiment. I'll start with 4 holes on each short side.
Ta-da. Shotgun / mono hybrid
For fruiting:
Tightly stuffed bottom holes, 3-6 small holes taped up on each end.
Interesting airflow you can sort of visualize by looking at the condensation. You can see the difference between my regular dialed-in monos after a week and the hybrid one:
I've had good results with this wikidzon isolate, here is the hybrid tub which clocked in at 244g dry first flush. For the last 48 hours of fruiting I took the tape off the small holes, no misting or fanning:
I ran the same isolate in a classic set-n-forget mono and it yielded 225g dry. Same substrate, same isolate, same amount of grain. This tub had more aborts and fuzzy feet than the hybrid:
So I think more experimenting is in order.
Anyone want to hop on board?
We could have a very easily dialed-in monotub here.
Edited by FrankHorrigan (07/16/13 01:22 PM)
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cronicr
Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
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Re: Experimental Monotub / Shotgun Hybrid [Re: FrankHorrigan]
#18073294 - 04/07/13 05:41 PM (10 years, 11 months ago) |
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-------------------- It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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brand0n
large jar mad man!!
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Re: Experimental Monotub / Shotgun Hybrid [Re: cronicr]
#18073313 - 04/07/13 05:46 PM (10 years, 11 months ago) |
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so 9 holes on the short side and 2 on the longs.
hmm i could do that right now.. lemme check if ive got a tub that i havent put any holes in. i might go with you on this.
-------------------- That did it! I am now the anti BRF CAKE! I have had enough! TO HELL WITH BRF! REAL MEN USE SEED! Go now brf younging. Get some seed. COME BACK A MAN!
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Capn Blue Beard
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Re: Experimental Monotub / Shotgun Hybrid [Re: FrankHorrigan]
#18073314 - 04/07/13 05:46 PM (10 years, 11 months ago) |
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Fantastic idea Frank! I'll be following this.
I'm working on an MS comparison of WBS to RGS. Provided these variables aren't totally stable, I'll be looking for 10% + averages before making a rough outline of the details. Then I'll move onto cloning for concrete comparisons.
Do you have any tips for this?
-------------------- My Level 5 Trip Report Having a Troubled Grow? Read This! Capn Blue Beards Brothel - Old Grow Log "I honestly dont grow drugs. I just try to provide them the perfect environment, they have to grow themselves."- MoGrow
** I have been gone for 10 months, any and all information I supply could be old, wrong and unintentionally fictional. I apologize for this in advance and recommend you wait for more information before settling on my advice.**
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SpitballJedi
Ancient Astronaut
Registered: 10/13/12
Posts: 8,598
Loc: Nibiru
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As always, time will tell.
-------------------- The Basics A little civility goes a long way The Noob Forum The Hammock Hangers' Forum
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mpd
Lammen Gorthaur
Registered: 10/22/12
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Re: Experimental Monotub / Shotgun Hybrid [Re: SpitballJedi]
#18073434 - 04/07/13 06:12 PM (10 years, 11 months ago) |
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I'm a noob, Frank. I thought that evaporation was a pinning trigger; that's why we mist and fan our SGFCs and it is why I don't understand the monotub. How is the evaporation to take place?
-------------------- There is no truer calling for mankind than that of true conservatism.
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Violet
Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 4,205
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Re: Experimental Monotub / Shotgun Hybrid [Re: FrankHorrigan]
#18073621 - 04/07/13 06:59 PM (10 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
FrankHorrigan said: Traditional monotubs have a problem with getting good FAE even when properly dialed in.
Because they have a great need of it, due to producing such excess CO2. Kudos for working to better deal with that overproduction, but why not reduce the excess instead of accommodate it? That seems simpler and more effective to me
-------------------- Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it! PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers The simplest, quickest, safest tek! For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers! • Violet's Teks and Posts •
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preternaturalist
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Re: Experimental Monotub / Shotgun Hybrid [Re: Violet]
#18073673 - 04/07/13 07:14 PM (10 years, 11 months ago) |
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-------------------- Microbulk In contrast to the supernatural, preternatural phenomena UTFSE are presumed to have rational explanations that are unknown. Jars for PF Tek!!! Frank's WBS Prep Frank's Simple Bulk - follow his links Frank's Cloning Tek A Great Gallery Play Bloxorz!!!
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dankakanat
Never a failure, Always a lesson
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Cant wait to see more.
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Citric
Registered: 03/19/04
Posts: 4,490
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Re: Experimental Monotub / Shotgun Hybrid [Re: mpd]
#18073784 - 04/07/13 07:44 PM (10 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
mpd said: I'm a noob, Frank. I thought that evaporation was a pinning trigger; that's why we mist and fan our SGFCs and it is why I don't understand the monotub. How is the evaporation to take place?
A proper monotub requires no misting. Evaporation should be taking place via a properly dialed in tub and fan. Many people have an issue dialing this in correctly. I suggested to drill small holes in place of the holes stuffed loosely(The top holes).
IMO, if the spawn is soaked per our large discussion Frank posted about in regard to another suggestion of mine, and the bulk substrate is properly mixed at field capacity, depending on rH of the grow room, you SHOULDN'T need misting. However if you live in a dry area, I believe you will have to mist probably once a day. That is not a lot of maintenance and removes guess work.
There are a lot of scenarios about this method, specially depending on climate. Perfect scenario is you do not need to mist, maintain proper rH, and increase FAE due to no more polyfil in the top holes which are taking in our FAE.
However, again, depending on climate, this may increase FAE while reducing rH, increasing manual labor. Given how many SGFC's are ran now days, one misting per day is nothing.
Many people have done a complete SGFC/Mono hybrid. This is to much and I do not recommend what so ever. I am sure people have had success, of course, cubes grow themselves. I've done open air g2g work and had success. Would I recommend it?
Now Frank, since you built your TiT, I still want you to do isolates in a clear / opaque tote for me. Again, my money is on the dark jars
Depending on how the rH holds up, possibly plug a few of the holes. This would take a lot of guess work out of stuffing the top holes.
-------------------- Self Healing lid tek ** Update 10.17.17 ** Mini casing pictures: Pins to harvest Cup O' Shrooms Magash: I noticed my contams were in the shape of fingers Hyphae: Yes "Loss of moisture from the substrate" is not a casing trigger. My final Grow!
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Smokey McPot
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Re: Experimental Monotub / Shotgun Hybrid [Re: Citric]
#18074247 - 04/07/13 09:26 PM (10 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Citric said: possibly plug a few of the holes. This would take a lot of guess work out of stuffing the top holes.
We all love to stuff those extra loose top holes.
But on a real note, I support this idea. Trying to make the mono-tub easier to dial in should be a goal for every cultivator.
-------------------- Smokey's First Mono-Tub Smokey's First Trip Log Anything I post is purely theoretical, and not based in reality. All pictures are from google.
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FrankHorrigan
The Inquisition
Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 10,573
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Re: Experimental Monotub / Shotgun Hybrid [Re: Citric]
#18076351 - 04/08/13 11:43 AM (10 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Citric said: A proper monotub requires no misting. Evaporation should be taking place via a properly dialed in tub and fan. Many people have an issue dialing this in correctly. I suggested to drill small holes in place of the holes stuffed loosely(The top holes).
IMO, if the spawn is soaked per our large discussion Frank posted about in regard to another suggestion of mine, and the bulk substrate is properly mixed at field capacity, depending on rH of the grow room, you SHOULDN'T need misting. However if you live in a dry area, I believe you will have to mist probably once a day. That is not a lot of maintenance and removes guess work.
There are a lot of scenarios about this method, specially depending on climate. Perfect scenario is you do not need to mist, maintain proper rH, and increase FAE due to no more polyfil in the top holes which are taking in our FAE.
However, again, depending on climate, this may increase FAE while reducing rH, increasing manual labor. Given how many SGFC's are ran now days, one misting per day is nothing.
Many people have done a complete SGFC/Mono hybrid. This is to much and I do not recommend what so ever. I am sure people have had success, of course, cubes grow themselves. I've done open air g2g work and had success. Would I recommend it?
Now Frank, since you built your TiT, I still want you to do isolates in a clear / opaque tote for me. Again, my money is on the dark jars
Depending on how the rH holds up, possibly plug a few of the holes. This would take a lot of guess work out of stuffing the top holes.
Making an ideal, easy, set-n-forget mono with boosted FAE is the ultimate goal here. I can't wait to see the first flushes. Citric, I agree that there may be too many holes. I have been testing one of these out with a second flush substrate and I did find that plugging up 5 of the 9 holes on each short side helped immensely. So I've made a couple changes to the OP and now I'm getting ready to spawn two tubs for the initial run. I'll be doing that test for you soon I'm going to use a PE isolate on a jar of grains I'd imagine. Just been sooooo busy with spring projects and such
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend
Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,830
Loc: Canada
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Re: Experimental Monotub / Shotgun Hybrid [Re: FrankHorrigan]
#18076368 - 04/08/13 11:46 AM (10 years, 11 months ago) |
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I have some PEU doing its spawn run in a tub similar to this. Hoping that it works out
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FrankHorrigan
The Inquisition
Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 10,573
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Re: Experimental Monotub / Shotgun Hybrid [Re: Pastywhyte]
#18098231 - 04/12/13 04:48 PM (10 years, 11 months ago) |
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Here they are, about 90% colonized as of tonight
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slapphappypill
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Re: Experimental Monotub / Shotgun Hybrid [Re: FrankHorrigan]
#18098323 - 04/12/13 05:11 PM (10 years, 11 months ago) |
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yeah, it'll work great i'm sure! especially since you've left out the poly and have SGFC holes up top
-------------------- We think we have freedom, but we're all just mice in a maze.... FYI: I stole all my pix off google! F+ PORN! Here is a shit-ton of porn by yours truly! I have FINALLY written up a couple teks as to how SHP has done things in the past. DISCLAIMER: This is not for the newbie to mycology, and not going to work for everyone! This is simply what works for one person when other teks and methods have failed miserably! ~~~~~How SHP does their unconventional WBS Prep!! (NO DRY METHOD)~~~~ ~~~~~SHP's highly disputed method of doing ALL their work outside of a flow hood or a Still air box!~~~~~ ~~~~~Troubles harvesting the side and bottom pins in your mono? Learn how!! Dunking included ;-)~~~~~
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veda_sticks
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Re: Experimental Monotub / Shotgun Hybrid [Re: FrankHorrigan]
#18098339 - 04/12/13 05:15 PM (10 years, 11 months ago) |
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nice to see you are doing some experments with this. When i decided to move from pf cakes to doing mini bulk grows, i couldnt be bothered with large holes and polyfill, and decided to do smaller holes.
it worked it great for me, but i was misting and fanning also, maybe not as much as a shotgun, but id do it when i was about.
Not like your doing, but i drilled holes along the substrate level, and higher up.
ill see if i can find pics
hersw a small double tube. it had 6 holes on the long side, and 4 on the short side. and the same on the top tub. Its no where near a shotgun idea. but it began with the idea of starting with that, and increasing the amount of holes and adjusting size as nessesary.
I never progressed past that as i ended up stopping growing. That was probably 4-5 years ago.
This was a newspaper experiment i done with that tub design using brown rice as spawn and paper as bulk.
and here was a ms grow using i think rice again or it might have been cakes as spawn (cant remember) to horse manure and verm. first flush. Not too bad, i think 168g fresh from 2 half pints spawned to 4 half pints of pasturised manure.
the 2nd flush produced around 130g, 3rd flush didnt seem to happen so i ditched it as far as a remember.
-------------------- PF TEK - writeup by EvilMushroom666 Lets Grow Mushrooms - RogerRabbit & RoadKills website with sample videos plus the full PF TEK video series. Alot of great information - BUY THE DVD Cakes can and will pin! - So you think cakes suck for pins. Your wrong Franks Simple Coir/Verm Tek Franks Proper Pasturisation Tek Franks Spawning To Bulk - Monotub Professor Pinheads RTV Injection Port Tek Foo Mans No Soak WBS Prep Tek
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CoreyRubble
Just Getting Started
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Re: Experimental Monotub / Shotgun Hybrid [Re: veda_sticks]
#18098426 - 04/12/13 05:34 PM (10 years, 11 months ago) |
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That's funny. Cronicr posted that I should have a newspaper if I am in the bathroom for more than 5 minutes......
So I did a search about newspaper substrate and came up with none other than your post.... From like 4 years ago.
That was like 10 minutes ago
Edited by CoreyRubble (04/12/13 05:36 PM)
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veda_sticks
Cultivator
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Re: Experimental Monotub / Shotgun Hybrid [Re: CoreyRubble]
#18098462 - 04/12/13 05:40 PM (10 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
CoreyRubble said: That's funny. Cronicr posted that I should have a newspaper if I am in the bathroom for more than 5 minutes......
So I did a search about newspaper substrate and came up with none other than your post.... From like 4 years ago.
That was like 10 minutes ago
that explains why i never need a newspaper, i never spend more than 2 minutes
-------------------- PF TEK - writeup by EvilMushroom666 Lets Grow Mushrooms - RogerRabbit & RoadKills website with sample videos plus the full PF TEK video series. Alot of great information - BUY THE DVD Cakes can and will pin! - So you think cakes suck for pins. Your wrong Franks Simple Coir/Verm Tek Franks Proper Pasturisation Tek Franks Spawning To Bulk - Monotub Professor Pinheads RTV Injection Port Tek Foo Mans No Soak WBS Prep Tek
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cronicr
Registered: 08/07/11
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Loc: Van Isle
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Re: Experimental Monotub / Shotgun Hybrid [Re: veda_sticks]
#18276307 - 05/16/13 10:07 PM (10 years, 10 months ago) |
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...yet lol how did this one go?
-------------------- It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
Edited by cronicr (05/16/13 10:10 PM)
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FrankHorrigan
The Inquisition
Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 10,573
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Re: Experimental Monotub / Shotgun Hybrid [Re: cronicr]
#18277661 - 05/17/13 07:16 AM (10 years, 10 months ago) |
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Oh it happened, it just also happened that my isolate I put into the two tubs did NOT perform as it did once. The reason I know it is the isolate is that I have the same one running in a few of my "normal" monotubs and they also performed sluggish and shittily. After 5 weeks of fruiting, pulling maybe a half-ounce (total) off each 66qt tub
So I have another two of these types of tubs colonizing right now (with a normal cube clone) and I still plan on running this trial to the end.
Thanks for the reminder! I meant to update this earlier but life is so busy right now in my world
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