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Invisiblenooneman
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Registered: 04/24/09
Posts: 14,683
Loc: Utah
Glovebox design.
    #17787769 - 02/12/13 06:30 AM (11 years, 1 month ago)

It's late, I'm high, I should be asleep, but something about glovebox design has always bothered me. I used to work in a clean room, and they teach you a lot about clean rooms when you do that. Anyway, here's some ways to improve the glovebox and to increase performance in existing glove boxes. Because I used to work in a cleanroom, I'm going to use the term particles here to refer to all the stuff that you want to keep out.

First, the bottom of the glovebox should be open. You don't even want to know the absolutely massive amount of particles that build up rapidly on the tops of flat surfaces. Even wiping them down isn't sufficient. Every time you set your jar down in the glovebox, you're kicking up millions and millions of the things that you're trying to keep out of your jar, and the problem gets worse over time as more particles build up. Old gloveboxes will have worse results than new gloveboxes due to particulate buildup particularly on the bottom of the box. The #1 thing to avoid in a clean room is a flat surface like the bottom of a box. Instead, use a wire mesh of some kind for the bottom. Try to make it a mesh with large gaps rather than small ones. In clean rooms, they use a kind of tall mesh for all "flat" surfaces, like a series of metal sheets using their edge as a "flat" surface.

Second, you should fan your glovebox for a couple minutes before use. This is standard cleanroom procedure. Fanning something kicks up a huge amount of the particles that are normally stuck to something. By fanning your glovebox before use, you'll knock loose a ton of stuff that was stuck to the sides of your glovebox. Fan it out for a few minutes, turn it upside down and shake it out a little. In a cleanroom, nothing goes into the cleanroom without being fanned first.

Third, and this is completely overkill, but what you should really do is have filtered air (as through a flow hood) coming in on the right, and a filter pulling air out on the left. This replicates the setup of a cleanroom, except that cleanrooms are built with vertical airflow instead of horizontal airflow.

I'm going to sleep now. Night guys.

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OfflineTmethylM
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Re: Glovebox design. [Re: nooneman]
    #17787796 - 02/12/13 06:48 AM (11 years, 1 month ago)

I think the wire mesh is a practical idea and its easy enough to implement.
The rest I don't think is necessary, but no such thing as overkill in my opinion.


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OfflineHippieRuss
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Re: Glovebox design. [Re: Tmethyl]
    #17787873 - 02/12/13 07:22 AM (11 years, 1 month ago)

In your clean room experience, which is a more efficient method for keeping particles out of your workspace:

1, Anaerobic chamber (glove box)
2, Laminar hood (flow hood)

or some combination of the two?

What is the most practical to implement (replicate from common materials)?

I have a very well made Anaerobic chamber (with gloves seated into flanges in the holes and clamps to secure the lid (bottom) in place.  I replicated this design: http://makerfaire.com/pub/e/9267

In your experience, is there a better way that is practical to the diy community?

HR


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OfflinePussyFart
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Re: Glovebox design. [Re: HippieRuss]
    #17787948 - 02/12/13 07:50 AM (11 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

HippieRuss said:
In your experience, is there a better way that is practical to the diy community?



A simple still air box with 2 arm holes and no gloves attached is more practical for this hobby.

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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Glovebox design. [Re: nooneman]
    #17787959 - 02/12/13 07:52 AM (11 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

nooneman said:
It's late, I'm high, I should be asleep, but something about glovebox design has always bothered me. I used to work in a clean room, and they teach you a lot about clean rooms when you do that. Anyway, here's some ways to improve the glovebox and to increase performance in existing glove boxes. Because I used to work in a cleanroom, I'm going to use the term particles here to refer to all the stuff that you want to keep out.

First, the bottom of the glovebox should be open. You don't even want to know the absolutely massive amount of particles that build up rapidly on the tops of flat surfaces. Even wiping them down isn't sufficient. Every time you set your jar down in the glovebox, you're kicking up millions and millions of the things that you're trying to keep out of your jar, and the problem gets worse over time as more particles build up. Old gloveboxes will have worse results than new gloveboxes due to particulate buildup particularly on the bottom of the box. The #1 thing to avoid in a clean room is a flat surface like the bottom of a box. Instead, use a wire mesh of some kind for the bottom. Try to make it a mesh with large gaps rather than small ones. In clean rooms, they use a kind of tall mesh for all "flat" surfaces, like a series of metal sheets using their edge as a "flat" surface.

Second, you should fan your glovebox for a couple minutes before use. This is standard cleanroom procedure. Fanning something kicks up a huge amount of the particles that are normally stuck to something. By fanning your glovebox before use, you'll knock loose a ton of stuff that was stuck to the sides of your glovebox. Fan it out for a few minutes, turn it upside down and shake it out a little. In a cleanroom, nothing goes into the cleanroom without being fanned first.

Third, and this is completely overkill, but what you should really do is have filtered air (as through a flow hood) coming in on the right, and a filter pulling air out on the left. This replicates the setup of a cleanroom, except that cleanrooms are built with vertical airflow instead of horizontal airflow.

I'm going to sleep now. Night guys.




Very bad advice on every single point.

Never pump filtered air into a glove box.  It will cause turbulence that will swirl contaminants into your open media.

Never have the bottom open.  Normal air currents will swirl up and enter your clean airspace.  The idea that particulates can 'build up' on the floor of the box in the two minutes since you washed the box with soap and water is ludicrous.  Besides, we don't dump our sterile media out on the bottom of the box anyway.  Don't confuse surface with air.

Never put a 'grate' in a glovebox.  It has far more surface area due to the 360 degrees each wire can catch and hold contaminants.

You don't need to fan out a glovebox that is still wet from washing.  The wet sides and bottom will trap and hold airborne contaminants, keeping them out of your media.

A glove/still air box is in no way a sterile environment.  It's designed to stop air currents which would swirl contaminants into your sterile media.  This is why it's only for 'air'.  You still need to flame sterilize scalpels, needles, etc., just as you would with a laminar flow hood.
RR


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"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
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