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InvisibleBlackWidow
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. *DELETED*
    #17782403 - 02/11/13 10:35 AM (11 years, 1 month ago)

Post deleted by BlackWidow

Reason for deletion: .

Edited by BlackWidow (02/03/21 03:10 PM)

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Invisibledurian_2008
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Registered: 04/02/08
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Loc: Raccoon City
Re: Experts Study the Benefits of Kratom for Treating Drug Abuse Withdrawal Symptoms [Re: BlackWidow] * 1
    #17782494 - 02/11/13 10:55 AM (11 years, 1 month ago)

Doctors tell the chronic pain sufferer that he can take an extra pill, if necessary.

So he takes one, as a matter of Murphy's Law.

But, that doctor never prescribes the extra pill.

At the end of the month, the patient is going though withdrawals, every time.

Pill PMS. Someone just wrote that it's caused divorces.

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InvisibleLSDylan
bass music enjoyer
Male


Registered: 05/26/10
Posts: 4,992
Loc: Michigan
Re: Experts Study the Benefits of Kratom for Treating Drug Abuse Withdrawal Symptoms [Re: BlackWidow]
    #17783805 - 02/11/13 03:03 PM (11 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

carefully created variations

“The compound has been known for years, but we’re working to come up with an improved synthetic analog...”




NO! Why take a natural compound that works perfectly fine and go and make a synthetic version??? AHH!  :crankey:


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DanceSafe | Voluntaryism

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Offlineps118
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Registered: 10/05/12
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Last seen: 8 years, 1 month
Re: Experts Study the Benefits of Kratom for Treating Drug Abuse Withdrawal Symptoms [Re: LSDylan]
    #17784458 - 02/11/13 05:02 PM (11 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

LSDylan said:
Quote:

carefully created variations

“The compound has been known for years, but we’re working to come up with an improved synthetic analog...”




NO! Why take a natural compound that works perfectly fine and go and make a synthetic version??? AHH!  :crankey:



Profit :mad:

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InvisibleLSDylan
bass music enjoyer
Male


Registered: 05/26/10
Posts: 4,992
Loc: Michigan
Re: Experts Study the Benefits of Kratom for Treating Drug Abuse Withdrawal Symptoms [Re: ps118]
    #17785018 - 02/11/13 06:36 PM (11 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

ps118 said:
Quote:

LSDylan said:
Quote:

carefully created variations

“The compound has been known for years, but we’re working to come up with an improved synthetic analog...”




NO! Why take a natural compound that works perfectly fine and go and make a synthetic version??? AHH!  :crankey:



Profit :mad:




I know, but it is SO AGGRAVATING!


--------------------
DanceSafe | Voluntaryism

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Offlinebatman returns
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Registered: 09/12/09
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Re: Experts Study the Benefits of Kratom for Treating Drug Abuse Withdrawal Symptoms [Re: LSDylan]
    #17785273 - 02/11/13 07:17 PM (11 years, 1 month ago)

Just sent this link to a friend of mine who is babysitting my ten year old Kratom tree. That's a great plant, I'm thrilled to learn it can help with opoid addiction. The tree is currently in my home state of Florida, where alot of pill heads are stressing for a fix. I think this may just help some people. Thanks! :wink:

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Offlinedip
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Registered: 03/07/10
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Re: Experts Study the Benefits of Kratom for Treating Drug Abuse Withdrawal Symptoms [Re: batman returns]
    #17785706 - 02/11/13 08:24 PM (11 years, 1 month ago)

And oddly enough, it is in Florida that addiction-treatment centers have been lobbying hard for a ban on kratom.  Some outfits have even advertised themselves as places where one can rid oneself of the kratom demon.  Which is, of course, ridiculous.

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Offlineps118
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Registered: 10/05/12
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Re: Experts Study the Benefits of Kratom for Treating Drug Abuse Withdrawal Symptoms [Re: dip]
    #17785982 - 02/11/13 09:11 PM (11 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

dip said:
And oddly enough, it is in Florida that addiction-treatment centers have been lobbying hard for a ban on kratom.  Some outfits have even advertised themselves as places where one can rid oneself of the kratom demon.  Which is, of course, ridiculous.




I've heard kratom withdrawal is kinda nasty, but I can't imagine it stacks up to opiate withdrawal.

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Invisibledurian_2008
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Re: Experts Study the Benefits of Kratom for Treating Drug Abuse Withdrawal Symptoms [Re: ps118]
    #17786091 - 02/11/13 09:29 PM (11 years, 1 month ago)

How much would you have to use?

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Offlinedanlennon3
LivingIsEasyWithEyesClosed.....
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Re: Experts Study the Benefits of Kratom for Treating Drug Abuse Withdrawal Symptoms [Re: dip]
    #17786499 - 02/11/13 10:49 PM (11 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

dip said:
And oddly enough, it is in Florida that addiction-treatment centers have been lobbying hard for a ban on kratom.  Some outfits have even advertised themselves as places where one can rid oneself of the kratom demon.  Which is, of course, ridiculous.




I remember my ex telling me that there were a lot of kratom bars in Florida... Maybe this is why they are trying to outlaw it:thumbdown:


--------------------
"Psychedelics should be used not to escape reality, but to embrace it"


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OfflineGorlax
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Registered: 05/06/08
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Re: Experts Study the Benefits of Kratom for Treating Drug Abuse Withdrawal Symptoms [Re: danlennon3]
    #17786927 - 02/12/13 12:37 AM (11 years, 1 month ago)

I used kratom to get rid of a tiny vic habit. only like 10mg a day habit but bought a kilo of the finest maeng da kratom and was on that shit for like half a year. ran out and w/d weren't even that bad, more mental w/d like I was just pissed for a week and had terrible sleep. It was so routine for me to wake up toss 6g in a yogurt and dip to school. i'm pretty sure I was getting tons of fiber from all that plant matter I ingested. Anyways Kratom is basically the best way to get rid of an opiate habit IMO. No pharmaceutical currently for opiate w/d would be appropriate cuz they just flood receptors which is the whole problem to begin with. Kratom has to have something else going.

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Offlineps118
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Re: Experts Study the Benefits of Kratom for Treating Drug Abuse Withdrawal Symptoms [Re: Gorlax]
    #17787059 - 02/12/13 01:15 AM (11 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Gorlax said:
I used kratom to get rid of a tiny vic habit. only like 10mg a day habit but bought a kilo of the finest maeng da kratom and was on that shit for like half a year. ran out and w/d weren't even that bad, more mental w/d like I was just pissed for a week and had terrible sleep. It was so routine for me to wake up toss 6g in a yogurt and dip to school. i'm pretty sure I was getting tons of fiber from all that plant matter I ingested. Anyways Kratom is basically the best way to get rid of an opiate habit IMO. No pharmaceutical currently for opiate w/d would be appropriate cuz they just flood receptors which is the whole problem to begin with. Kratom has to have something else going.




Out of curiousity, what did you get out of kratom? I haven't tried any opiates (addictive personality) but I see kratom on a site I order ethnos from all the time and have considered trying it out.

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OfflineGorlax
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Registered: 05/06/08
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Re: Experts Study the Benefits of Kratom for Treating Drug Abuse Withdrawal Symptoms [Re: ps118]
    #17824605 - 02/18/13 01:02 PM (11 years, 1 month ago)

^ For me I used it for energy and to get shit done. Which is a common use for it in its native country indonesia, farmers eat tons of kratom to help them work in the hot sun. I have had shitty kratom and really good kratom. Its got flavors like weed and you really want to get some maeng da kratom to me it was the most like vicodin and gave me energy surges and euphoria.. basically its a light vicodin.

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InvisibleCidneyIndole
www.shroomery.OG
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Registered: 05/16/05
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Re: Experts Study the Benefits of Kratom for Treating Drug Abuse Withdrawal Symptoms [Re: BlackWidow]
    #17825895 - 02/18/13 05:07 PM (11 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

BlackWidow said:
“Mitragynine completely blocked all withdrawal symptoms and could provide a remarkable step-down-like treatment for people addicted to hardcore narcotics such as morphine, oxycodone or heroin,” McCurdy explained. “The compound has been known for years, but we’re working to come up with an improved synthetic analog or a better formulation of the tea for testing in humans.”







1- I'm not sure mitragynine is quite powerful enough to stand up to many hardcore heroin or oxy habits.  IMO it might be better to step down from heroin to methadone or suboxone, then taper that dose down low, before stepping off to kratom. I've used this method a couple times in the past.

I would also say kratom is strong enough to stand up to a mild morphine habit. But the worse the habit, the greater the starting dose of kratom is required, and the longer the time needed to comfortably wean down.


2- Regarding a synthetic substitute:  Of course they want to do that for purposes of greed. I mean, they can't claim a patent on kratom, now can they? And even if they could grow and sell optimized kratom, there's less money in that. Just more bullshit greed. Let's  replace what works with something else untested so we can profit!

:grrr:

Furthermore, and I think this is the important one:  I do not believe that mitragynine alone would be as effective as kratom.

Kratom does not only contain mitragynine, but quite a number of alkaloids-- several of which are known to have some effect. If you look at "enhanced" products which tend to be extracts... often standardized for certain compounds-- they tend to be stronger and stave off withdrawal better... but they also tend to be more addictive and harder to come off of, themselves. Like the legendary "UEI." Whereas plain leaf kratom is relatively easy to come off of.

To highlight this point, check out this little blurb from wikipedia about one of the alkaloids found in kratom:


Quote:

Kratom also reportedly contains at least one alkaloid (rhynchophylline) that is a calcium channel blocker, and reduces NMDA-induced current. There is considerable research as to the role of NMDA receptor activity in the formation of dependence, and the symptoms of withdrawal. In 2005, Inturrisi demonstrated that co-administration of d-methadone (the isomer that lacks opioid activity, but is an NMDA antagonist) in small doses with morphine prevented the development of morphine tolerance in rats.





So hopefully if "they" do decide to be the greedy pigs they've repeatedly shown themselves to be, by making a synthetic version, instead of figuring out how to market the natural product,  I hope it's a synthetic version of actual kratom, and not just one or two components.


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I am me. We are You.

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Invisibledurian_2008
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Re: Experts Study the Benefits of Kratom for Treating Drug Abuse Withdrawal Symptoms [Re: ps118]
    #17827119 - 02/18/13 08:43 PM (11 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

ps118 said:
Out of curiousity, what did you get out of kratom?




I had to bbq in the cold with a sickening migraine. Felt capable, nostalgic, and out of pain.

IMHO, the potential for addiction is there.

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Invisiblestillblazing
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Re: Experts Study the Benefits of Kratom for Treating Drug Abuse Withdrawal Symptoms [Re: durian_2008]
    #17828357 - 02/19/13 01:13 AM (11 years, 1 month ago)

i needa get some kratom.

might help getting off these pills after multiple operations

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OfflineGorlax
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Re: Experts Study the Benefits of Kratom for Treating Drug Abuse Withdrawal Symptoms [Re: stillblazing]
    #17835921 - 02/20/13 01:14 PM (11 years, 1 month ago)

I have read plenty of stories of people jumping off a black habit or oxy habit with kratom. It really boils down to the strength of the kratom and obviously how much you abuse of your drug of choice.

The main interest of research isn't so much packing raw kratom up and packing it into pills for a pharmacy. The pharmacological profile of kratom is what is so intriguing to many researchers. Obviously the new market for pain killers is going to be based off non-addictive based medications. This has been seen in the newer generation of analgesics accompanied with serotonin and norepinephrine reuptake inhibitors. Tramadol, Tapentadol, and the newer research drug AH-7921. The appearance of these drugs clearly indicates the pathway of the future.

Kratom seems to show similar properties where w/d is reduced but analgesics effects remain constant. Mitragynine has shown to be slightly less potent then morphine while its sister compound , 7-hydroxymitragynine is 17 fold more potent that morphine. Heroin is said to be around (3x) or at max 10 fold that of morphine. If one was to smoke/IV pure 7-Hydroxymitragynine it would produce effects greater then that of heroin. Heroin effects are almost identical to morphine except heroin has the two acetyl groups which increase the lipid solubility of the heroin molecule, and thus the molecule enters the brain a bit more rapidly. The additional groups are then detached, yielding morphine. Now if this said compound is 17x of morphine and yet plenty of people are able to stop use relatively easy another mechanism has to be at play.

:cookiemonster:

Edited by Gorlax (02/20/13 01:16 PM)

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Invisibledurian_2008
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Re: Experts Study the Benefits of Kratom for Treating Drug Abuse Withdrawal Symptoms [Re: Gorlax]
    #17835980 - 02/20/13 01:24 PM (11 years, 1 month ago)

I think use of the foliage is manageable, as someone who was never into taking opiates. If you have built up a considerable tolerance, I have no idea how much it would take to be potent.

I particularly wanted to know what I was using, because fake extracts had been reported at the time.

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InvisibleCidneyIndole
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Re: Experts Study the Benefits of Kratom for Treating Drug Abuse Withdrawal Symptoms [Re: Gorlax]
    #17838952 - 02/20/13 10:34 PM (11 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Gorlax said:
Now if this said compound is 17x of morphine and yet plenty of people are able to stop use relatively easy another mechanism has to be at play.







Not an unreasonable statement-- and another mechanism definitely is at work here. However, having "17 times the strength" of morphine on paper does not always equate to an experience that is exactly 17x stronger. Not to mention the fact that I believe 7-HO is only present in very small quantities in plain leaf.


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I am me. We are You.

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Invisiblebadchad
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Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 13,377
Re: Experts Study the Benefits of Kratom for Treating Drug Abuse Withdrawal Symptoms [Re: Gorlax]
    #17839908 - 02/21/13 06:11 AM (11 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Gorlax said:
  Now if this said compound is 17x of morphine and yet plenty of people are able to stop use relatively easy another mechanism has to be at play.




Probably dose.  Although I don't know what data was used to determine potency.


--------------------
...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436

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