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wire5
Hippie Born too Late
Registered: 04/05/11
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Has anyone considered the ecological implications?
#17618187 - 01/27/13 10:05 AM (11 years, 2 months ago) |
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Of creating outdoor beds for speciese not native to your area.
Especially when you hear instances of say some one in the UK starting Ovoid or Cyan (Alleni) beds. Or even eddibles for that matter.
Is there any chance this could come back to bite is in the ass somehow? Any chances it over take native mushroom populations? What about other animals that may eat something similar looking that is native?
I dont have problems doing this kind of thing, im just curious, because you frequently hear about (or see instances of) animals and plants causing issues, but usually not fungus.
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Tmethyl
Smear in the shale
Registered: 07/16/12
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Re: Has anyone considered the ecological implications? [Re: wire5]
#17618212 - 01/27/13 10:13 AM (11 years, 2 months ago) |
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I've thought about the benefits and downfalls of doing this. But I've basically come to the conclusion that mushrooms all tend to prefer a specific environment, and some even prefer certain species of wood, certain substrate, and some parasitic species prefer certain insects(cordyceps) with that said, spores of every species are floating in our atmosphere and landing thousands of miles away from where they originated, naturally.
Fungi has been balancing it's self for billions of years, spores of every species have landed in every habitat and environment the earth has to offer. That's without our help. It's nothing we should be concerned about in my opinion.
-------------------- ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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wire5
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Re: Has anyone considered the ecological implications? [Re: Tmethyl]
#17618289 - 01/27/13 10:29 AM (11 years, 2 months ago) |
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Yeah that is more or less how I feel about it. But I cant help imagining how aweful/funny it would be if some rare psilocibe species became a pest speciese for welsh farmers or something crazy like that.
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Emma-Lou
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Re: Has anyone considered the ecological implications? [Re: wire5]
#17618720 - 01/27/13 12:16 PM (11 years, 2 months ago) |
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Its definitely worth thinking about!
As climate change is certainly starting to affect species distribution world-wide then the conditions that different fungi prefer will change as well... which definitely opens doors for fungi to become seen as an invasive pest-species too. There are studies on fungi wreaking havoc with trees and insects as distribution changes with a changing climate, but perhaps theres not too much to worry about with edibles etc grown on a small scale. But then lots of invasive species plant have become that way because we underestimated the opportunistic nature of all living things! Perhaps fungi arent studied or noticed so much as they are not as visible as plants.
Would be quite crazy if we were wiped out by a fungi, but not impossible! My dad has an idea for a crazy story involving something like that!
-------------------- Little Miss Mycologist
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RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure
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Re: Has anyone considered the ecological implications? [Re: wire5]
#17618806 - 01/27/13 12:39 PM (11 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
wire5 said:
Is there any chance this could come back to bite is in the ass somehow? Any chances it over take native mushroom populations?
Doubtful since the mushrooms we cultivate grow on dead organic matter and are not parasitic. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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ArmFromTheAbyss
Old Hand
Registered: 10/09/02
Posts: 1,368
Loc: Down here in Babylon
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Re: Has anyone considered the ecological implications? [Re: wire5]
#17618931 - 01/27/13 01:04 PM (11 years, 2 months ago) |
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Invasive species are a tremendous ecological threat. There are many species of fungi that have become invasive. For example, Ophiostoma ulmi is the fungus that causes Dutch Elm Disease. American Chestnut has been virtually wiped out due to the fungus Endothia parasitica. Bat populations in the North America have been affected by Geomyces destructans. I'm sure the list could go on and on.
None of these are Basidiomycetes like the Psilocybes. I suppose it would be possible for a Psilocybe to become invasive, but it's probably not very likely. Invasive species become problems because they have few competitors or predators. I would imagine that in most cases the native fungi far overpopulate any introduced species making it unlikely to become invasive.
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wire5
Hippie Born too Late
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Re: Has anyone considered the ecological implications? [Re: RogerRabbit]
#17618974 - 01/27/13 01:15 PM (11 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
RogerRabbit said:
Quote:
wire5 said:
Is there any chance this could come back to bite is in the ass somehow? Any chances it over take native mushroom populations?
Doubtful since the mushrooms we cultivate grow on dead organic matter and are not parasitic. RR
Feel free to correct me if im wrong (and admit to playing devils advocate) but aren't some of eddibles also parasetic, like oysters or lions mane.
Better yet! Assume Sp. X is not native and grows on decaying aspen log, now Sp. Y is native and grows on the same aspen logs. However Sp. X thrives in Sp. Y's climate and therefore grows faster than Sp. Y. Now lets assume X gets a good foot hold on some aspen logs. Is there a chance Sp. X could take over "all" of the aspen logs (given many years of course) so that Sp. Y has no aspen logs to grow on. Over the course of many years wouldnt Sp. X chome out Sp. Y?
And I know all about Geomyces, I haven't been caving in a while because of it. However im talking more of a slow unnoticed take over, much like non-native lady bugs are taking over the narive onea in the SE USA.
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psylosymonreturns
aka Gym Sporrison
Registered: 10/16/09
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Re: Has anyone considered the ecological implications? [Re: ArmFromTheAbyss]
#17618982 - 01/27/13 01:16 PM (11 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
ArmFromTheAbyss said: Invasive species are a tremendous ecological threat. There are many species of fungi that have become invasive. For example, Ophiostoma ulmi is the fungus that causes Dutch Elm Disease. American Chestnut has been virtually wiped out due to the fungus Endothia parasitica. Bat populations in the North America have been affected by Geomyces destructans. I'm sure the list could go on and on.
None of these are Basidiomycetes like the Psilocybes. I suppose it would be possible for a Psilocybe to become invasive, but it's probably not very likely. Invasive species become problems because they have few competitors or predators. I would imagine that in most cases the native fungi far overpopulate any introduced species making it unlikely to become invasive.
yes theres a fungus that grows on returning salmon here in BC that threatens their chance of spawning. and there is a fungus on bees , and cant forget mummyberry on blueberry plants. but we dont grow these fungus , whos going to complain if morels are cultivated so much they over populate a cup fungus species or something .
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wire5
Hippie Born too Late
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Re: Has anyone considered the ecological implications? [Re: psylosymonreturns]
#17619337 - 01/27/13 02:32 PM (11 years, 2 months ago) |
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Im asking more about the latter bit, because who knows one day that cup fungus could cure cancer . Seriously though is there a chance of this happening especially if we were to factor in somehow a growth in number of out door cultivators.
Again im not saying it would be bad, or that I want to discourage out door cultivators. Im just entertaining a hypothetical thought of mine.
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thiotimoline
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Re: Has anyone considered the ecological implications? [Re: psylosymonreturns]
#17619344 - 01/27/13 02:34 PM (11 years, 2 months ago) |
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Most oyster species rot wood that is already dead, but Armillaria species for example can be highly destructive parasites on living trees.
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Tmethyl
Smear in the shale
Registered: 07/16/12
Posts: 16,431
Loc: Florida
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Re: Has anyone considered the ecological implications? [Re: wire5]
#17619718 - 01/27/13 04:18 PM (11 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
wire5 said: Im asking more about the latter bit, because who knows one day that cup fungus could cure cancer
P.Stamets cures cancer with fungi all the time
-------------------- ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist
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Re: Has anyone considered the ecological implications? [Re: Tmethyl]
#17619779 - 01/27/13 04:32 PM (11 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
wire5 said: Is there any chance this could come back to bite is in the ass somehow?
No.
Quote:
Any chances it over take native mushroom populations?
That would be awesome!!!
Quote:
Tmethyl said: P.Stamets cures cancer with fungi all the time
There are no good studies that say that medicinal mushrooms cure cancer.
A lot of cancer goes away on its own, so it's hard to say one way or the other...
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wire5
Hippie Born too Late
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Re: Has anyone considered the ecological implications? [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
#17619858 - 01/27/13 04:49 PM (11 years, 2 months ago) |
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Dont get me wrong Allan I think it would be amazing as well!
So fungus (we'll leave zygomytes out for the purposes of argument) is so finely tuned to its niche that there is no chance of one species pushing out another, even with human aid so to speak.
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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist
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Re: Has anyone considered the ecological implications? [Re: wire5]
#17619914 - 01/27/13 05:04 PM (11 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
wire5 said: So fungus (we'll leave zygomytes out for the purposes of argument) is so finely tuned to its niche that there is no chance of one species pushing out another, even with human aid so to speak.
Fungi push out other fungi species all the time.
They are very competitive.
But at that point they are filling the same ecological niche, would anyone really complain if a Psilocybe out competed Hypholoma fasciculare?
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wire5
Hippie Born too Late
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Re: Has anyone considered the ecological implications? [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
#17620632 - 01/27/13 07:36 PM (11 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Alan Rockefeller said:
Quote:
wire5 said: So fungus (we'll leave zygomytes out for the purposes of argument) is so finely tuned to its niche that there is no chance of one species pushing out another, even with human aid so to speak.
Fungi push out other fungi species all the time.
They are very competitive.
But at that point they are filling the same ecological niche, would anyone really complain if a Psilocybe out competed Hypholoma fasciculare?
Damn your flawless logic
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pseudotsuga
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Re: Has anyone considered the ecological implications? [Re: wire5]
#17622492 - 01/28/13 07:20 AM (11 years, 2 months ago) |
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Here in California we have seen the implications of non-native species by the introduction of Amanita phalloides, besides poisoning unscrupulous mushroom hunter, it doesn't seem to be hurting anything. In the over 100 years since its introduction has put any other fungi out business, nor has it had any negative impact on local ecology.
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psylosymonreturns
aka Gym Sporrison
Registered: 10/16/09
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Re: Has anyone considered the ecological implications? [Re: thiotimoline]
#17622836 - 01/28/13 09:54 AM (11 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
pseudotsuga said: Here in California we have seen the implications of non-native species by the introduction of Amanita phalloides, besides poisoning unscrupulous mushroom hunter, it doesn't seem to be hurting anything. In the over 100 years since its introduction has put any other fungi out business, nor has it had any negative impact on local ecology.
exactly same as here. the death caps inhabit the hazel nut plantations . the europeans brought the haze nut, the hazel nut brought the A phaloides . but there isnt anything else that grows in the habitat, its their own niche . they travel with it and arent out competing anything.Quote:
thiotimoline said: Most oyster species rot wood that is already dead, but Armillaria species for example can be highly destructive parasites on living trees.
Armillaria had a huge boom this last year around here. it was a tough year for most species but the honeys really flourished. it would be beneficial to spread an edible that can contain it somewhat like oysters.
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maryxmas
King of the Hippiecrates
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Re: Has anyone considered the ecological implications? [Re: psylosymonreturns]
#17627880 - 01/29/13 09:03 AM (11 years, 1 month ago) |
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Psilocybe mushrooms only thrive in disrupted areas like those created by mankind. ( cow pastures, wood chip covered planter systems,
It would be difficult for them to branch outside of the environment we have created and into the natural world in sufficient quantities to ever be a menace.
It is funny to me that in ecological terms humans are the keystone species (A keystone species is a species that has a disproportionately large effect on its environment relative to its abundance. Such species play a critical role in maintaining the structure of an ecological community, affecting many other organisms in an ecosystem and helping to determine the types and numbers of various other species in the community) and that psilocybin mushrooms wouldn't be as abundant without us mucking about and disrupting nature..... It is a symbiotic relationship and it is as if we were made for each other like bees and apple blossoms.
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Tmethyl
Smear in the shale
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Re: Has anyone considered the ecological implications? [Re: maryxmas]
#17627908 - 01/29/13 09:14 AM (11 years, 1 month ago) |
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A couple species of Psilocybes "thrive" with human disturbances, to say the entire psilocybe genus "only thrives in disrupted areas" I cannot agree with. The majority of them need no intervention to thrive and we've probably been more detrimental then beneficial to their existence.
-------------------- ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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wire5
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Re: Has anyone considered the ecological implications? [Re: Tmethyl]
#17628476 - 01/29/13 12:01 PM (11 years, 1 month ago) |
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Also im not specifically talking about the psilocybe genus, but all cultivated mushrooms. However I've been using psilocybe as an example because they are the most fun to talk about
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