|
 imachavel
I loved and lost but I loved-ftw
 
Registered: 06/06/07
Posts: 31,488
Loc: You get banned for saying that 
Last seen: 5 hours, 20 minutes
|
 It looks like the feds won't cut much on the budget and will raise taxes 
#17482307 - 01/01/13 06:19 PM (11 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
A bipartisan plan to avert year-end spending cuts and tax increases slammed into stiff opposition in the Republican-controlled House of Representatives, where conservatives argued that it didn't including any meaningful reduction in spending.
The bill that would raise income-tax rates only on the best-off Americans passed the Senate by an overwhelming 89-8 vote early Tuesday morning, but by early evening it was in trouble. House Majority Leader Eric Cantor (R., Va.) and other House Republicans objected to it, arguing that it consisted almost entirely of tax increases and contained barely any spending cuts—a major bone of contention between the parties.
House Speaker John Boehner (R., Ohio), who didn't take a position on the bill, had promised to bring the White House-backed, Senate bill to a House vote. But the conservative rebellion posed a major test of his leadership—just two days before he is to stand for re-election as speaker.
A wide range of House Republicans were clamoring for a chance to vote to add more spending cuts to the bill and send it back to the Senate. "I would be shocked if this bill doesn't go back to the Senate," said Rep. Spencer Bachus (R., Ala.) after a two-hour strategy meeting of House Republicans.
In a closed-door caucus later Tuesday afternoon, Mr. Boehner presented GOP lawmakers with two options for overcoming an impasse, according to a senior House GOP aide.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323320404578215373352793876.html
This piss anyone off?  Once again I just don't feel peoples confidence in Obama. Pros of this? Cons of this? Are there any pros? Discuss!
--------------------
 I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!
I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk
|
qman
Stranger
Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 1 day, 14 hours
|
Re: It looks like the feds won't cut much on the budget and will raise taxes [Re: imachavel]
#17482802 - 01/01/13 07:51 PM (11 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
|
 Gilgamesh18
Herbivore Man
Registered: 03/01/12
Posts: 11,671
|
Re: It looks like the feds won't cut much on the budget and will raise taxes [Re: qman]
#17482871 - 01/01/13 08:05 PM (11 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Im trin to git an obamaphone Obama gon give me lots of free money from the evil rich
--------------------
|
MightyWhite
Registered: 08/27/08
Posts: 3,806
Last seen: 10 hours, 56 minutes
|
Re: It looks like the feds won't cut much on the budget and will raise taxes [Re: Gilgamesh18]
#17482939 - 01/01/13 08:17 PM (11 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
|
imachavel
I loved and lost but I loved-ftw
Registered: 06/06/07
Posts: 31,488
Loc: You get banned for saying that
Last seen: 5 hours, 20 minutes
|
Re: It looks like the feds won't cut much on the budget and will raise taxes [Re: MightyWhite]
#17486007 - 01/02/13 12:08 PM (11 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
thought this thread would be like this by now 
--------------------
I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!
I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk
|
luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
|
Re: It looks like the feds won't cut much on the budget and will raise taxes [Re: imachavel]
#17486100 - 01/02/13 12:31 PM (11 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Perhaps people have learned to ignore your incoherent ramblings?
--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
|
imachavel
I loved and lost but I loved-ftw
Registered: 06/06/07
Posts: 31,488
Loc: You get banned for saying that
Last seen: 5 hours, 20 minutes
|
Re: It looks like the feds won't cut much on the budget and will raise taxes [Re: luvdemshrooms]
#17486655 - 01/02/13 02:27 PM (11 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
perhaps most people have you put you on their ignore list and learned to stop replying in a thread you even slightly decide to drop your asinine statements in? Are you part of a chess club? You have kind of a nerdy sore loser sore winner persona type personality. 
--------------------
I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!
I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk
|
starfire_xes
I Am 'They'
Registered: 10/24/09
Posts: 21,590
Loc: Dallas with all the assho...
Last seen: 9 months, 17 days
|
Re: It looks like the feds won't cut much on the budget and will raise taxes [Re: imachavel]
#17488266 - 01/02/13 07:46 PM (11 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Anyone see the pork that got loaded into the bill? Totally fucking unbelievable.
|
Shins
Fun guy
Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 16,337
|
Re: It looks like the feds won't cut much on the budget and will raise taxes [Re: starfire_xes]
#17488277 - 01/02/13 07:48 PM (11 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
starfire_xes said:
Totally fucking unbelievable.
is it really? is it really?
|
imachavel
I loved and lost but I loved-ftw
Registered: 06/06/07
Posts: 31,488
Loc: You get banned for saying that
Last seen: 5 hours, 20 minutes
|
Re: It looks like the feds won't cut much on the budget and will raise taxes [Re: starfire_xes]
#17488936 - 01/02/13 09:39 PM (11 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
starfire_xes said:
Anyone see the pork that got loaded into the bill? Totally fucking unbelievable.
No, I didn't realize the bill was already final. I thought they were still arguing the final details. Link please.
--------------------
I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!
I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk
|
setb
10th level beer nerd
Registered: 01/30/11
Posts: 2,580
|
Re: It looks like the feds won't cut much on the budget and will raise taxes [Re: Shins]
#17495544 - 01/04/13 06:37 AM (11 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Shins said:
Quote:
starfire_xes said:
Totally fucking unbelievable.
is it really? is it really?
lol yeah, this is coming from the same group of corrupt and self-serving bastards that loaded the "emergency sandy bill" with pork out the ass. The think: "oh, this bill HAS to pass and money is going to be spent anyway, might as well get in on it!" You see Christie bitching about that? Thought the fat bastard was going to have a heart attack. Self-serving pigs, the lot of them.
No, seriously, they can't get along without Federal aid? It's pathetic. there was once a time when groups of people would sit on the roads into their state, with guns, and they would turn the Feds away when they came ti "help". Everyone knows hat if you accept "help" from a powerful organization you become beholden to them; it was all a moot point anyway because people could take care of themselves and then each other. Charity starts at home.
That being said: you know what's really funny about these so called "takes hikes for the 'rich'"? The truly wealthy- you know, the real rich- aren't even going to be touched by this. They increased INCOME taxes, they did not implement some kind of wealth tax. The truly wealthy don't need to work or they can drastically reduce their income to get around the tax.
This is why you see all the really and truly rich back Democrats. They support the candidates with lots of money and then they are protected.
|
luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
|
Re: It looks like the feds won't cut much on the budget and will raise taxes [Re: setb]
#17495608 - 01/04/13 07:27 AM (11 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
setb said:
Everyone knows hat if you accept "help" from a powerful organization you become beholden to them; it was all a moot point anyway because people could take care of themselves and then each other.
Tell that to welfare recipients and their enablers.
--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
|
setb
10th level beer nerd
Registered: 01/30/11
Posts: 2,580
|
Re: It looks like the feds won't cut much on the budget and will raise taxes [Re: luvdemshrooms]
#17495613 - 01/04/13 07:29 AM (11 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:
setb said:
Everyone knows hat if you accept "help" from a powerful organization you become beholden to them; it was all a moot point anyway because people could take care of themselves and then each other.
Tell that to welfare recipients and their enablers.
Well, they are a perfect example  . So are seniors dependent on social security, etc.
|
imachavel
I loved and lost but I loved-ftw
Registered: 06/06/07
Posts: 31,488
Loc: You get banned for saying that
Last seen: 5 hours, 20 minutes
|
Re: It looks like the feds won't cut much on the budget and will raise taxes [Re: setb]
#17547120 - 01/14/13 01:30 PM (11 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
This shit really makes me sick:
(Reuters) - President Barack Obama on Monday rejected any negotiation with Republicans over the most pressing U.S. fiscal issue, refusing to trade cuts in government spending in exchange for raising the borrowing limit.
"If the goal is to make sure that we are being responsible about our debt and our deficit - if that's the conversation we're having, I'm happy to have that conversation," Obama said. "What I will not do is to have that negotiation with a gun at the head of the American people," he told a news conference.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/01/14/us-usa-obama-debt-idUSBRE90D0UK20130114
--------------------
I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!
I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk
|
imachavel
I loved and lost but I loved-ftw
Registered: 06/06/07
Posts: 31,488
Loc: You get banned for saying that
Last seen: 5 hours, 20 minutes
|
Re: It looks like the feds won't cut much on the budget and will raise taxes [Re: imachavel]
#17547147 - 01/14/13 01:37 PM (11 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
As much as I hate to admit it, it's pretty much true to an extent, that turning this country into a socialist model and raising taxes for ALL classes by a major 10-25% margin would fix the public sector debt. Our country would turn into a government model just like Europe, which bothers me. The public sector debt would drop and hopefully surplus back the interest, which as it stands is $16 trillion. We'd be like England, no real STRONG middle class, but the recession would surely end. It's sad but true, the talk of defaulting on the debt and resetting the currency would be over
--------------------
I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!
I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk
Edited by imachavel (01/14/13 01:37 PM)
|
qman
Stranger
Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 1 day, 14 hours
|
Re: It looks like the feds won't cut much on the budget and will raise taxes [Re: imachavel]
#17547201 - 01/14/13 01:50 PM (11 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
imachavel said:
As much as I hate to admit it, it's pretty much true to an extent, that turning this country into a socialist model and raising taxes for ALL classes by a major 10-25% margin would fix the public sector debt. Our country would turn into a government model just like Europe, which bothers me. The public sector debt would drop and hopefully surplus back the interest, which as it stands is $16 trillion. We'd be like England, no real STRONG middle class, but the recession would surely end. It's sad but true, the talk of defaulting on the debt and resetting the currency would be over
"raising taxes for ALL classes by a major 10-25% margin would fix the public sector debt."
I don't think so, first of all the higher taxes would strangle the already weak economic environment, the latest GDP forecast for the 4th quarter are already in the 1% level or even lower, higher tax rates would turn GDP negative.
Also, you are under the false assumption that higher tax rates bring in more tax revenue, many times higher tax rates result in being tax revenue neutral or even revenue negative.
Once again, the $16.5 trillion in debt can NEVER be payed back, the debt will only grow larger in the next few years, over $20 trillion and higher. The failure to run large deficits would result in severe economic weakness, we are addicted to debt/stimulus. The only goal moving forward will be trying to pay the interest on the debt.
|
zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 10 months
|
Re: It looks like the feds won't cut much on the budget and will raise taxes [Re: qman]
#17547786 - 01/14/13 04:15 PM (11 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
I would rather the government default and the currency devalued than see any more share of the GDP sent to Washington DC. Let's see how the Chinese feel about currency manipulation then.
--------------------
|
imachavel
I loved and lost but I loved-ftw
Registered: 06/06/07
Posts: 31,488
Loc: You get banned for saying that
Last seen: 5 hours, 20 minutes
|
Re: It looks like the feds won't cut much on the budget and will raise taxes [Re: qman]
#17548093 - 01/14/13 05:10 PM (11 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
imachavel said:
As much as I hate to admit it, it's pretty much true to an extent, that turning this country into a socialist model and raising taxes for ALL classes by a major 10-25% margin would fix the public sector debt. Our country would turn into a government model just like Europe, which bothers me. The public sector debt would drop and hopefully surplus back the interest, which as it stands is $16 trillion. We'd be like England, no real STRONG middle class, but the recession would surely end. It's sad but true, the talk of defaulting on the debt and resetting the currency would be over
"raising taxes for ALL classes by a major 10-25% margin would fix the public sector debt."
I don't think so, first of all the higher taxes would strangle the already weak economic environment, the latest GDP forecast for the 4th quarter are already in the 1% level or even lower, higher tax rates would turn GDP negative.
Also, you are under the false assumption that higher tax rates bring in more tax revenue, many times higher tax rates result in being tax revenue neutral or even revenue negative.
Once again, the $16.5 trillion in debt can NEVER be payed back, the debt will only grow larger in the next few years, over $20 trillion and higher. The failure to run large deficits would result in severe economic weakness, we are addicted to debt/stimulus. The only goal moving forward will be trying to pay the interest on the debt.
wow, thank god, I made the sarcastic assumption that raising tax revenues will fix the recession. Thank you proving my original point, that Falcon Wolverine is wrong. Looks like we are screwed, here is why:
raising taxes: increase the recession
slash the budget: increase the recession
default on the currency: increase the recession
Can we bring religion into political discussion from now on? I think the proper answer to the economical issues is PRAYING
--------------------
I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!
I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk
|
Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger
Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 7 months, 6 days
|
Re: It looks like the feds won't cut much on the budget and will raise taxes [Re: imachavel]
#17549497 - 01/14/13 09:42 PM (11 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
qman said:
...higher taxes would strangle the already weak economic environment, the latest GDP forecast for the 4th quarter are already in the 1% level or even lower, higher tax rates would turn GDP negative.
Money taken out of the economy through taxes go right back into the economy via Government spending. The Government does not burn tax money. If the Government spends more than it takes in (deficit spending), that helps the economy. If the Government takes in more than it spends (debt reduction), that hurts the economy (short term).
Quote:
qman said:
Also, you are under the false assumption that higher tax rates bring in more tax revenue, many times higher tax rates result in being tax revenue neutral or even revenue negative.
The Laffer curve peaks around 70%, according to most economic studies. I know conservatives like to believe in an extreme outlier study by a no-name student from a no-name University who didn't factor in the extra revenue from Reagan's extreme deficit spending (which greatly helped the economy in the short term), and if you believe that one nobody over the scientific consensus, then I guess you don't believe in evolotion or climate change either.
Quote:
qman said:
Once again, the $16.5 trillion in debt can NEVER be payed back, the debt will only grow larger in the next few years, over $20 trillion and higher. The failure to run large deficits would result in severe economic weakness, we are addicted to debt/stimulus. The only goal moving forward will be trying to pay the interest on the debt.
As I said, paying down debt is painful, but it can be done and it has been done before:
We just need similar tax rates to what we had before.
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
I would rather the government default and the currency devalued than see any more share of the GDP sent to Washington DC. Let's see how the Chinese feel about currency manipulation then.
I guess you have a lot of debt that you'd like to eliminate? 
Quote:
imachavel said:
I made the sarcastic assumption that raising tax revenues will fix the recession. Thank you proving my original point, that Falcon Wolverine is wrong.
First of all, I never said the raising tax revenue would "fix the recession". I said that more taxes would raise more revenue, and could also help reduce the deficit (which is actually not good for the economy short term).
Second, nothing was "proven". What supporting argument was provided?
Quote:
imachavel said:
Looks like we are screwed, here is why:
raising taxes: increase the recession
slash the budget: increase the recession
default on the currency: increase the recession
Not quite. You're right about the last two. However, as I said earlier, raising taxes is itself neutral for the economy if the Government spends what it collects (however you are correct that paying down the debt increases the recession).
--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
|
imachavel
I loved and lost but I loved-ftw
Registered: 06/06/07
Posts: 31,488
Loc: You get banned for saying that
Last seen: 5 hours, 20 minutes
|
Re: It looks like the feds won't cut much on the budget and will raise taxes [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#17549693 - 01/14/13 10:24 PM (11 years, 3 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
qman said:
...higher taxes would strangle the already weak economic environment, the latest GDP forecast for the 4th quarter are already in the 1% level or even lower, higher tax rates would turn GDP negative.
Money taken out of the economy through taxes go right back into the economy via Government spending. The Government does not burn tax money. If the Government spends more than it takes in (deficit spending), that helps the economy. If the Government takes in more than it spends (debt reduction), that hurts the economy (short term).
Quote:
qman said:
Also, you are under the false assumption that higher tax rates bring in more tax revenue, many times higher tax rates result in being tax revenue neutral or even revenue negative.
The Laffer curve peaks around 70%, according to most economic studies. I know conservatives like to believe in an extreme outlier study by a no-name student from a no-name University who didn't factor in the extra revenue from Reagan's extreme deficit spending (which greatly helped the economy in the short term), and if you believe that one nobody over the scientific consensus, then I guess you don't believe in evolotion or climate change either.
Quote:
qman said:
Once again, the $16.5 trillion in debt can NEVER be payed back, the debt will only grow larger in the next few years, over $20 trillion and higher. The failure to run large deficits would result in severe economic weakness, we are addicted to debt/stimulus. The only goal moving forward will be trying to pay the interest on the debt.
As I said, paying down debt is painful, but it can be done and it has been done before:
We just need similar tax rates to what we had before.
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
I would rather the government default and the currency devalued than see any more share of the GDP sent to Washington DC. Let's see how the Chinese feel about currency manipulation then.
I guess you have a lot of debt that you'd like to eliminate?
Quote:
imachavel said:
I made the sarcastic assumption that raising tax revenues will fix the recession. Thank you proving my original point, that Falcon Wolverine is wrong.
First of all, I never said the raising tax revenue would "fix the recession". I said that more taxes would raise more revenue, and could also help reduce the deficit (which is actually not good for the economy short term).
Second, nothing was "proven". What supporting argument was provided?
Quote:
imachavel said:
Looks like we are screwed, here is why:
raising taxes: increase the recession
slash the budget: increase the recession
default on the currency: increase the recession
Not quite. You're right about the last two. However, as I said earlier, raising taxes is itself neutral for the economy if the Government spends what it collects (however you are correct that paying down the debt increases the recession).
paying down the debt will increase the recession? Now hold on a minute, Mr. economic expert, what got us into the recession in the first place? It had NOTHING to do with government debt? I thought government debt, was cutting back federal funding to individual state plans. If the debt isn't reduced, one of two things will happen:
1) the currency will be defaulted, hey fuck, if the government introduces a new currency and people buy it all, the recession may end if the debt is eliminated. Problem is 1-2=-1 no matter what currency is used. The current government spending level. Most likely no one will trade their money for the new crap anyway. Perhaps Obama will try and make the new dollars worth more then the old ones. Great, $2 usd = $1 new usd, same problem
2) taxes will be raised, the current projected solution. Being implemented. See how great over taxing people is? Look at Europe, no poverty, high recession, but no poverty, no real strong middle class either. Our country will be like that. But according to you, the tax increase will fix the SS problem, no new soaring debt, but the same OLD soaring deficit. So now you have, solution #2, and problem #1, leading to both #2 and #1 solutions. Hiked taxes, currency default, and continued deficit spending.
Wow, back to step #1. If you are claiming that government debt isn't really causing the current recession, then why do the taxes need to be increased to create more money for the federal government? Your argument is a paradox. Government over spending isn't furthering the recession, because the public and private sector are separate right? Yet we need new tax revenue, because of government debt, and if the federal government doesn't continue to spend money, the private sector will fail, because of lack of the F.B.I., C.I.A., Obama care, and the military. Now wait, what does that have to do with private sector debt?
Oh wait? There is a correlation? So if the government continues to ring up debt, then the currency will be defaulted on, and mass recession will en sue? So wait? Your argument ISN'T a paradox. No, you are being real clear, and I'm just very confused.
It's times like this Zappa should put the power tools down and come in and fix things so I understand. But then again, he'll do it with insults. You won't resort to insults, you'll just come up with useless solutions to fix the economy based on a paradox mind frame and using straw man arguments such as "raising taxes will fix the SS problem but not the debt but without government spending the recession will continue but wait the private sector doesn't depend on the public sector the CDS bubble bursting and government shares involved was the smallest bit of the recession but oh wait we need federal aid but wait no need to resort to defaulting on the currency government over spending still helps but............"
Am I following your track so far?
--------------------
I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!
I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk
|
|
Threaded
Previous
Index
Next
Bulk Cannabis Seeds 
North Spore Mushroom Grow Kits & Cultivation Supplies 
Red Vein Kratom 
Bridgetown Botanicals 
Maeng Da Thai Kratom Leaf Powder
Edit 
Reply 
1 2 all )
EchoVortex
fft2
Innvertigo
luvdemshrooms
Ravus