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 wormwood whack
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 The controversy within The Bible 
#17400104 - 12/16/12 05:57 AM (11 years, 4 months ago) |
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Note: When using the word fact i am not saying it is proven but in that, within the bible, not reality, it is fact. Whether it is fact outside of the bible is your choice of course.
People often claim the bible is controversial, one verse says he can't be seen the next one says "you will see my back" or "face to face". Now are these really controversial or are these simply figurative language.
When reading a book, you can usually understand what language is factual and what is figurative by basic knowledge before hand or a plot set up at the beginning of the book. The bible however, discusses mainly a topic that does not have any true prior knowledge. So when we see it say he can't be seen at the beginning, since we don't have any previous knowledge of what god is as to his physical appearance, if any, when it says we see his back or his face, we think it is also talking about it factually.
Read the bible like a normal book however instead of reading one sentence here and one sentence there, it sets many basic rules, descriptions, and facts (in that, in the context of the bible it is fact) that set a perfect base that we can use to differentiate 'factual' information from figurative language.
With this said, is there anyone who has a verse in the bible or maybe two, that contradict itself? Anyone that isn't so stuck in atheism as FACT that they'll refuse to admit any credibility in my statements? Just doing an early screening.
I've got original greek and hebrew translations, a basic knowledge of how to translate, hundreds of books on the philosophy of god, the bible, argument tactics, etc. I do actually have a good understanding of what i'm talking about, and no i'm not a religious nut either, simply interested.
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 OrgoneConclusion
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OK, a fact is not a fact. So far so good... 
Quote:
Read the bible like a normal book however instead of reading one sentence here and one sentence there, it sets many basic rules, descriptions, and facts (in that, in the context of the bible it is fact) that set a perfect base that we can use to differentiate 'factual' information from figurative language.
With this said, is there anyone who has a verse in the bible or maybe two, that contradict itself? Anyone that isn't so stuck in atheism as FACT that they'll refuse to admit any credibility in my statements? Just doing an early screening.
Atheism is not a stuckism, it is a lack of evidencism. But we shall overlook your ignorance on that matter and respond to your loaded query.
There are over 10,000 flavors of Christianity, not due to atheism, but due to the FACT that literalism and allegory are NOT easily distinguished in the Bible. Of course, most followers like yourself, are certain they have the correct interpretation.
Perhaps you will be the one to unite all Christians into a single coherent group, but as my Christian name is Thomas, I am highly doubtful.
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viktor
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What about the example OC used earlier: do we read the Bible and then turn the other cheek or go eye for an eye? Because they're pretty much the exact opposite of each other, yet they're there in the same book.
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OrgoneConclusion
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Re: The controversy within The Bible [Re: viktor] 1
#17400428 - 12/16/12 08:30 AM (11 years, 3 months ago) |
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Most will tell you that the New Testament supercedes the Old as if God was a total flake who couldn't make up his mind.
And then these same modern American New Testament-following-Christians almost universally cheered at the death of Bin Laden.
Quote:
Revenge is mine sayeth the Lord.
Fuck that noise, they seem to be saying.
I haven't a clue (and neither do they) and what it is exactly that they do believe. The only thing they are certain of is that they hate homos (unless they are Church leaders/elders).
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viktor
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This might sound cynical, but it appears to me that hatred of the gheys is literally the only thing holding the church together. There seems to be considerable debate about whether Jesus would help the poor and sick or whether he would just cut taxes and let the working classes massacre the money hoarders, but the only issue re: homos is the degree of hatred that should be expressed.
In the name of Jesus, of course.
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windowlikcer
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Re: The controversy within The Bible [Re: viktor]
#17401352 - 12/16/12 12:25 PM (11 years, 3 months ago) |
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Ok...what about all the parts of the Bible that are full of violence and hatred? Aren't these universally contradictory? I can only assume so since when I meet Christians they seem to talk endlessly about his love and compassion... hymns are not about God killing thousands of people or commanding us to murder each other, so I'd say that is a chief contradiction. "I love you more than you'll ever understand...BUT ILL FUCKING KILL YOU IF YOU PISS ME OFF".
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White Beard
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Quote:
wormwood whack said:
With this said, is there anyone who has a verse in the bible or maybe two, that contradict itself?
Here's one:
MAT 1:16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.
LUK 3:23 And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli.
Joseph had two fathers apparently.
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viktor
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Re: The controversy within The Bible [Re: windowlikcer]
#17402587 - 12/16/12 04:32 PM (11 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
windowlikcer said:
Ok...what about all the parts of the Bible that are full of violence and hatred? Aren't these universally contradictory? I can only assume so since when I meet Christians they seem to talk endlessly about his love and compassion... hymns are not about God killing thousands of people or commanding us to murder each other, so I'd say that is a chief contradiction. "I love you more than you'll ever understand...BUT ILL FUCKING KILL YOU IF YOU PISS ME OFF".
I mostly agree with this, but the violence and hatred isn't any more contradictory than the peace and the love, unless you're claiming that the latter is the "true" message and the former some kind of outlier.
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windowlikcer
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Re: The controversy within The Bible [Re: viktor] 1
#17403790 - 12/16/12 07:45 PM (11 years, 3 months ago) |
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No, I agree. I have a gay friend who's boyfriend is strongly religious...we have debated this kind of thing before, and he is convinced that Christianity is all about love and compassion and loving gays and blah blah...in my opinion, if you are a Christian you should not be out supporting gay rights. You should be out in the streets crusading against gays since that is essentially what the Bible tells you to do, and if its the fucking word of God shouldn't you be obeying it?
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the human abstract
malaka the werewolf
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Re: The controversy within The Bible [Re: windowlikcer]
#17403821 - 12/16/12 07:50 PM (11 years, 3 months ago) |
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if i was in a healthy congregation i wouldn't want a funeral with your gay friend
my opinion.
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viktor
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Re: The controversy within The Bible [Re: windowlikcer]
#17404688 - 12/16/12 10:09 PM (11 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
windowlikcer said:
No, I agree. I have a gay friend who's boyfriend is strongly religious...we have debated this kind of thing before, and he is convinced that Christianity is all about love and compassion and loving gays and blah blah...in my opinion, if you are a Christian you should not be out supporting gay rights. You should be out in the streets crusading against gays since that is essentially what the Bible tells you to do, and if its the fucking word of God shouldn't you be obeying it?
Well, anyone who really believed that book wouldn't merely be crusading against gays, they'd be killing them, because the book clearly states "A man who lies with a man as he would lie with a woman shall be put to death."
There's no room for opposition to gay marriage in there. According to the Bible they should be slaughtered outright, for that is the will of God.
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"They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."
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OrgoneConclusion
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Re: The controversy within The Bible [Re: viktor]
#17404698 - 12/16/12 10:11 PM (11 years, 3 months ago) |
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But then the stoopidity and evilness become too apparent so they tone down the hate a few notches until it is almost palatable.
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viktor
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Of course, we all know that they'd kill the gays tomorrow if they thought they could get away with it 
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"They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."
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the human abstract
malaka the werewolf
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Re: The controversy within The Bible [Re: viktor]
#17404752 - 12/16/12 10:21 PM (11 years, 3 months ago) |
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 that would make a lot of christains with dildos cry
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Cosmic_Flame
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Re: The controversy within The Bible [Re: viktor]
#17405267 - 12/17/12 12:24 AM (11 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
viktor said:
Of course, we all know that they'd kill the gays tomorrow if they thought they could get away with it
I really despise the bible. An archaic text that serves humanity no good. Contradictions are all over the place. Not to mention according to this bs text, I should be killed. No thank you
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Pull the blinds and change their minds....
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the human abstract
malaka the werewolf
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Re: The controversy within The Bible [Re: Cosmic_Flame]
#17406020 - 12/17/12 08:09 AM (11 years, 3 months ago) |
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if it was called the holy william it wouldn't be different
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