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InvisibleCelestial Traveler
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Registered: 03/03/11
Posts: 7,639
Loc: Idaho
Do you feel that some psychedelic enthusiasts, deliberately reject alcohol...
    #16930465 - 09/29/12 12:26 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

...as part of their testament to the notion that psychedelics can be healthy, and being healthy and using psychedelics are not mutually incompatible?

I feel like some psychedelic users who are very vocal about the negative perception behind psychedelics in our society, purposefully abstain or minimize their alcohol usage so that they don't seem like hypocrites when they extoll the harmlessness of psychedelics, and so their own personal health habits don't sabotage their argument.

For example, if someone says - "I don't drink alcohol because it's unhealthy, but I trip on mushrooms and peyote", then this seems to imply that the person in this dialogue is concerned about their health, yet they take mushrooms and peyote.  Therefore mushrooms and peyote must be relatively healthy.

However it's kind of hard to defend psychedelic usage as "healthy" when you binge drinking every weekend and occasionally snorting lines of coke or smoking a little bit of cheeb.  It makes it look like personal health is hardly relevant to you, and thus hardly relevant in your decisions about drug usage.

I'm not saying that psychedelics are healthy or unhealthy, and of course I'm not condemning usage of them.

But I think I have noticed a good number of psychedelic users in my experience that don't drink alcohol or drink very minimally, and they seem to try to draw a significant amount of attention to this aspect of our consumption lives.

Perhaps this is a reason why.


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OfflineSWEDEN
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Registered: 10/25/04
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Re: Do you feel that some psychedelic enthusiasts, deliberately reject alcohol... [Re: Celestial Traveler]
    #16930479 - 09/29/12 12:29 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Certain kinds of alcoholic drinks can have health benefits when taken in moderation. Red wine has those nifty antioxidants, and apparently you can live on dark beer without eating food for weeks. It has to be the right kind of beer, and it probably helps if you're a monk.


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OfflineBjorn_Stormcrow
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Re: Do you feel that some psychedelic enthusiasts, deliberately reject alcohol... [Re: SWEDEN]
    #16930491 - 09/29/12 12:33 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

They have actually found that moderate consumption of pretty much ANY kind of alchahol has a positive effect on your average lifespan. by moderate I mean a drink or two a day and MAX 5 or 6 with your friends on weekends.

Also, Jaggermeister, that shit is GODLY when your fighting off a cold or a flu.

Mead is quite healthy as well, though hard to get. the health benefits of honey are amazing.


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Live Mythically


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OfflineDarwin23
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Re: Do you feel that some psychedelic enthusiasts, deliberately reject alcohol... [Re: Celestial Traveler]
    #16930494 - 09/29/12 12:34 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Could be. I abstain from alcohol because I truly think it is the worst drug on the planet. Just tonight I saw it's disgusting side while on the way home from work. Saw three ~22 year olds at Shoprite. They were trying to intimidate everyone and were being loud pricks to everyone in the store. They were extremely vocal about how drunk they were.

There isn't any other drug that I'm aware of that would cause people to act the same way. There are some that might make people annoyingly talkative or behave in offensive ways, but not in the way that alcohol made them act.


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OfflineAllGreyThumbs
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Re: Do you feel that some psychedelic enthusiasts, deliberately reject alcohol... [Re: Darwin23] * 1
    #16930523 - 09/29/12 12:51 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

For several years alcohol has been the only drug I do regularly.  Anymore I about can't stand it and I despise the fact that it is the only drug available legally.  I've recently refocused on being healthier.  I'm making some dietary changes.  Getting some exercise.  Doing some yoga and meditation.  And just as soon as I have some mushrooms I'm going cut alcohol use back to pretty much only on special occasions.  It's not that occasional use of alcohol is all that unhealthy.  It's just that doing the same boring old drug over and over just because it's the only thing around seems unhealthy to me.  I also don't necessarily think that mushroom are healthy.  It's just that they are far more interesting and I haven't done them umpteen baziliion times.  Being happy and interested in stuff is healthy.

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OfflineAllGreyThumbs
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Re: Do you feel that some psychedelic enthusiasts, deliberately reject alcohol... [Re: Bjorn_Stormcrow]
    #16930532 - 09/29/12 12:53 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Ulfrick said:
They have actually found that moderate consumption of pretty much ANY kind of alchahol has a positive effect on your average lifespan. by moderate I mean a drink or two a day and MAX 5 or 6 with your friends on weekends.

Also, Jaggermeister, that shit is GODLY when your fighting off a cold or a flu.

Mead is quite healthy as well, though hard to get. the health benefits of honey are amazing.




I actually used to make quite a bit of mead.  I was into home brewing of beer and wine, and with some local bee keepers it seemed like the natural thing do do.

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Offlinemellowparty
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Re: Do you feel that some psychedelic enthusiasts, deliberately reject alcohol... [Re: Celestial Traveler]
    #16930535 - 09/29/12 12:54 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

I think its because the man drinks alcohol and hippies don't like the man cause the man banned their favourite trippy drugs.

So yeah fuck the man and don't drink alcohol is what I'd imagine is in hippies heads.

I like the taste of alcohol, I hate being drunk. Nothing to do with any social dogmas on consumption of substance A as opposed to B even tho I was exactly like said hippies when I was younger and dumber :lol:

Plus that healthy argument is full of shit. These people would eat RCs on paper yet don't eat something bought from Walmart under the pretext its unhealthy when they and we know its because of the man :lmao:


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InvisibleSalomon
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Re: Do you feel that some psychedelic enthusiasts, deliberately reject alcohol... [Re: AllGreyThumbs]
    #16930536 - 09/29/12 12:55 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

i drink.

and i love tripping.



some times i drink while i trip.


sometimes i take other drugs that are disolved in alcohol


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EVERYTHING EVENTUALLY BECOMES A DESERT


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InvisibleCelestial Traveler
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Registered: 03/03/11
Posts: 7,639
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Re: Do you feel that some psychedelic enthusiasts, deliberately reject alcohol... [Re: mellowparty]
    #16930541 - 09/29/12 12:56 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

mellowparty said:
I think its because the man drinks alcohol and hippies don't like the man cause the man banned their favourite trippy drugs.

So yeah fuck the man and don't drink alcohol is what I'd imagine is in hippies heads.

I like the taste of alcohol, I hate being drunk. Nothing to do with any social dogmas on consumption of substance A as opposed to B even tho I was exactly like said hippies when I was younger and dumber :lol:

Plus that healthy argument is full of shit. These people would eat RCs on paper yet don't eat something bought from Walmart under the pretext its unhealthy when they and we know its because of the man :lmao:




:rofl:


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OfflineCynosure
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Re: Do you feel that some psychedelic enthusiasts, deliberately reject alcohol... [Re: mellowparty]
    #16930588 - 09/29/12 01:16 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

It may be true for some, but maybe psychedelics allow one to reflect on their physical and mental state (both current and previous).  This reflection could yield recollection of instances involving alcohol that have been regretted, dull, annoying, unhealthy, etc. thus causing the onlooker to change their stance on the substance.

I drank constantly--as often and hard as possible--throughout my junior/senior years enrolled in high school.  At the start of college, I started to recognize the negative effects and cut back.  I didn't really like how it made me feel during or after; I started drinking only on weekends, at clubs/bars, and on special occasions.  However, I was still over-looking, for lack of a better word, my desires and interests.  It was also something I considered to be very unhealthy (as I was always getting shitfaced).  As college progressed further, I drank less and less.  I had a few relapses on dates with the ex, the return of friends, or an epic event.. but each reminded me how much I disliked drinking.

Since the start of my increased psychedelic use (probably the mid-college era), my ability to recognize these negative effects of alcohol (as well as other substances, food items, etc.--it's not limited to alcohol) and my ability to say no to them has increased.  When I drink nowadays, it's usually a high-quality, great-tasting beer or a nice glass of wine and I limit myself to one/two at a time.  Either that or I'm using it to extract some plant material/alkaloid for ingestion.  If I notice myself drink the equivalent of a 6-pack in less than a week, I'll lay off for a bit.  Currently, I haven't had a sip of alcohol in months and I'm completely okay with that.  I can get those newly proven, healthy antioxidants in other ways and can pick up a glass or two when I want to feel a little warm and fuzzy or have an exotic flavor to follow a specially prepared meal.

Anywho, to the point of all this rambling, I feel that psychedelics can encourage subjective self-improvement and if the user is willing to take their own advice and make better choices for themselves then so be it.  If they wish to bloat about their discontinuation of a certain substance or food item then so be it.

Personally, I've stopped consuming all of what I consider "gross" thangs, including: fast food/processed foods, certain substances (both for health and disinterest in effects), meat, laziness, etc.  I've gone vegan, stopped smoking (twice, rofl-I think I've made it over the hump this time), increased my exercise routine, found new hobbies, increased my stretching/meditation routines, and become more organized and focused in my life.  My quality of life has improved greatly and I've also been pulling in a larger income which means less worry, stress, and frustration.  I would have probably come to these conclusions normally in time, but psychedelics certainly acted as a catalyst in some regards and inspiration in others.

It has nothing to do with "the man" or "avoiding normalized culture", but rather personal choices that I feel good about.  I surely can't be the only one.


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Invisibletyrannicalrex
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Re: Do you feel that some psychedelic enthusiasts, deliberately reject alcohol... [Re: Cynosure]
    #16930610 - 09/29/12 01:28 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

I did real LSD for the first time when I was 14. I drank once or twice in my teens and got drunk. I did not like it much. I still drink and like the buzz. I just do not have a problem with it. I would rather trip or be high on cannabis. :shrug:


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OfflineSWEDEN
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Re: Do you feel that some psychedelic enthusiasts, deliberately reject alcohol... [Re: Bjorn_Stormcrow]
    #16930686 - 09/29/12 02:03 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

I haven't been able to find cheap mead anywhere. There are a few bars around town that serve it but I'd rather drink alone in my cave.


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OfflineAlmond Flour
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Re: Do you feel that some psychedelic enthusiasts, deliberately reject alcohol... [Re: Celestial Traveler]
    #16930718 - 09/29/12 02:13 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Holier than thou bullshit any nothing more


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Offlinehighc
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Re: Do you feel that some psychedelic enthusiasts, deliberately reject alcohol... [Re: Almond Flour]
    #16930742 - 09/29/12 02:20 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Hates alcohol....loves L


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InvisibleCelestial Traveler
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Re: Do you feel that some psychedelic enthusiasts, deliberately reject alcohol... [Re: Almond Flour]
    #16930825 - 09/29/12 03:06 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

highc said:
Hates alcohol....loves L




Meme time

Quote:

Almond Flour said:
Holier than thou bullshit any nothing more




Eh I feel like that touches the surface, but IMO a more specific evaluation of that mentality would be more appropriate.


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Invisiblevenetianblinds
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Re: Do you feel that some psychedelic enthusiasts, deliberately reject alcohol... [Re: Celestial Traveler]
    #16930828 - 09/29/12 03:08 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

i dont know a single psychedelic enthusiast so i have no idea


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Do you feel that some psychedelic enthusiasts, deliberately reject alcohol... [Re: Celestial Traveler] * 2
    #16930832 - 09/29/12 03:11 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

I can't speak for anyone else. But I personally dislike alcohol for the most part, because I don't like getting wasted on it.

I abused alcohol pretty heavily in my teens. As well as psychedelics.

The alcohol made me feel like shit, every single time I abused it. I fucking hate the way it makes me feel.

My uncle died from drinking and driving.
Another uncle is a pitiful excuse of an human being alcoholic that is in his 50s now probably, and acts like he's 5 when drunk. Actually I'm not sure if he's even still alive.
My good friend destroyed his liver from drinking excessively and died. (24)
Seen alcohol used as an excuse to do stupid things and be stupid by far too many people.
Seen it ruin far too many relationships and lives.


Don't get me wrong. I enjoy a nice quality brew or glass of red wine every now and then.
But I stop at 1 or 2. And I drink maybe once a month, tops. I only drink in moderation anymore.




I use psychedelics far less frequently. But there was a time when I was eating L every other day.

For the most part, fuck alcohol.
It pisses me off that it's the most socially accepted drug. And stupid fucks like to call you a "pussy" for being a lightweight.
Fuck that fake macho bullshit.


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InvisibleDawks
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Re: Do you feel that some psychedelic enthusiasts, deliberately reject alcohol... [Re: Celestial Traveler] * 2
    #16930927 - 09/29/12 04:10 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

I use my share of unhealthy drugs but I drink alcohol.

1. The high is shit
2. Makes me feel shit
3. It triggers my migraines
4. Any time I could drink alcohol I could also be doing a better drug
5. Events that predominately include alcohol fucking suck. Look at a doof that's primarily weed and acid and compare it to a doof that has more alcohol. Totally different vibe.
6. Even in places where alcohol is the drug of choice, such as nighclubs, I often have better success with getting laid sober than I do if I were drinking.

Not a fan of alcohol. And when you consider that ethyl alcohol is not only neurotoxic but hepatoxic, nephrotoxic and cardiotoxic AND factor in the excessive alcohol consumption can lead to obesity and reduced sex drive, it starts to look a LOT less appealing. The only appealing aspect of alcohol is its socially acceptable uses.

I'd much rather consume GHB in place of alcohol.


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OfflineCHeifM4sterDiezL
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Re: Do you feel that some psychedelic enthusiasts, deliberately reject alcohol... [Re: Dawks]
    #16930937 - 09/29/12 04:17 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

I drink socially at parties or ill go to a bar/club for a good time with people. I've gone alone to a bar to get drunk like 3 times in my life. I never find myself picking up a drink just to get fucked up. Sometimes I do crave the taste of a cold beer (or a couple). And if I'm at some kinda drinkable event and theres no drank I do miss it. But alcohol was never really my thing no.

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OfflinePDU
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Re: Do you feel that some psychedelic enthusiasts, deliberately reject alcohol... [Re: CHeifM4sterDiezL]
    #16931851 - 09/29/12 10:46 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

I am like this to an extent - but like many others in this thread, i just hate alcohol.

Like Shroomism said - everytime i have ever drank (to effect..) i have felt like shit. Every-single-time.

I also abused alcohol heavily in grade 10 and got in alot of trouble - it WAS my gateway drug, and i really mellowed out when i started smoking marijuana instead, at the insistance of my mother. However, i got out of control again with party drugs a couple years later, so it's a moot point if you try and argue that "drugs are safer than alcohol."

However, ever since those early experiences with alcohol i have found that the alcoholic social rituals common to most (young) people (especially) are very hypocritical to their views of illegal drugs. In addition i've always been greatly bothered by the encouragement society gives to alcohol and obviously found that hypocritical aswell...

I have had many profound and life changing effects from psychedelics and i have had at best, had a decent time and a headache from alcohol.

To be fair - alot of my moms extended family are drunks and during my phase in highschool of drinking, my mother lamented me about the horrors of alcoholism in my family, imprinting my psyche longterm. I am also a pretty wild drunk, and have never drank socially, only to become a-drunk-wild-man (albeit a harmless one.) Looking back on those drunken-wild-man experiences i feel no pride in what i became or what i did.

Beyond that, how many of you have guy friends who have preyed on drunk girls, or driven drunk and got in car accidents, or vandalized things senselessly, or started fights, or, or, or...

Why would i want to drink?

It is a perverse question, because obviously it is possible to use alcohol responsibly and gain positive social and health benefits from it..

However, i feel that responsible use is by far the exception to the rule, and i want no part in it.

At this point in my life I don't drink at all, and haven't for upwards of a year. I might consider it in the right situation.

It very much limits my social life.


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