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Offlinemellowparty
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Did LSD really help Francis Crick deduce the double helical structure of DNA
    #16708153 - 08/16/12 06:57 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

I can't find a reputable source on that.

Anyone heard of it before?


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OfflineSoluminia
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Re: Did LSD really help Francis Crick deduce the double helical structure of LSD [Re: mellowparty]
    #16708161 - 08/16/12 07:00 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

I've read that somewhere before but instead of LSD its was mescaline.


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Invisiblepablokabute
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Re: Did LSD really help Francis Crick deduce the double helical structure of LSD [Re: Soluminia]
    #16708184 - 08/16/12 07:08 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

he's not really entirely the first person to do that, i think it was a german or russian woman, he won the noble prize for assimilating and cloning small amounts of dna, i think.. ..


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Offlinemellowparty
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Re: Did LSD really help Francis Crick deduce the double helical structure of LSD [Re: pablokabute]
    #16708293 - 08/16/12 07:50 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

No, he won the Nobel prize for providing a working model of the structure of DNA. He and James Watson kinda ripped off Rosalind Franklin's data (she worked in Maurice Wilkins lab who also shared the Nobel prize).

I read on several occasioans that Crick was on something like 50ug LSD-25 when he visualized the double helix and told his wife what it looked like but never really seen a reputable source. Thats not to say Crick did not use LSD (which he almost certainly did) but it just could be a fake pro-acid tale.


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InvisibleLana
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Re: Did LSD really help Francis Crick deduce the double helical structure of DNA [Re: mellowparty]
    #16708316 - 08/16/12 07:59 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)



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InvisibleDoc_T
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Re: Did LSD really help Francis Crick deduce the double helical structure of LSD [Re: mellowparty]
    #16708324 - 08/16/12 08:01 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

LSD was a fairly common therapy for a while, lots of people used it.
I don't know whether Crick did but it wouldn't surprise me at all.
Here he is talking about LSD and other stuff: http://www.intuition.org/txt/crick2.htm


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Offlinemellowparty
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Re: Did LSD really help Francis Crick deduce the double helical structure of LSD [Re: Doc_T]
    #16708375 - 08/16/12 08:14 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Kary Mullis sounds like a fun guy to chill with :lol: I've read about him synthesising and tripping on some DOX chemicals and how much he cares about acid. He makes some strange claims about AIDS and global warming too.

Quote:

Doc_T said:
LSD was a fairly common therapy for a while, lots of people used it.
I don't know whether Crick did but it wouldn't surprise me at all.
Here he is talking about LSD and other stuff: http://www.intuition.org/txt/crick2.htm



I read that a few hours ago when I googled the topic of this thread. From being a physicist he moved to molecular biology and from there he moved to neuroscience so I won't be suprised not one bit if he used to be an acid head. This status did not carry a social stigma prior to the 60s-70s and he did his groundbreaking work in the 50s when as you said it was some pretty novel stuff and erryone was doing it.


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InvisibleDieCommie

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Re: Did LSD really help Francis Crick deduce the double helical structure of LSD [Re: mellowparty]
    #16708746 - 08/16/12 09:59 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Just because he used doesnt mean it really helped him deduce the structure.  The data he stole from Rosalind probably helped a bit though... :wink:

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Invisiblepablokabute
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Re: Did LSD really help Francis Crick deduce the double helical structure of LSD [Re: DieCommie]
    #16708798 - 08/16/12 10:16 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

fucking acid, still havent had any, im 23. fuck.


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Fermented Mushrooms!!
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Offlinemellowparty
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Re: Did LSD really help Francis Crick deduce the double helical structure of LSD [Re: DieCommie]
    #16708851 - 08/16/12 10:29 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
Just because he used doesnt mean it really helped him deduce the structure.  The data he stole from Rosalind probably helped a bit though... :wink:



a bit lol I don't think they could've done it without the stolen data. She seems to have been a bitch tho so fuck her.


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Offlinemellowparty
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Re: Did LSD really help Francis Crick deduce the double helical structure of LSD [Re: DieCommie]
    #16708880 - 08/16/12 10:35 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
Just because he used doesnt mean it really helped him deduce the structure.



I wouldn't be surprised if it did tho. Acid has a great problem solving aspect to it and besides an antiparallel double helix is the type of shit you see on acid :lol:

Your point is 100% valid as well, it could've been a coincidence.


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Invisiblepablokabute
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Re: Did LSD really help Francis Crick deduce the double helical structure of LSD [Re: mellowparty]
    #16709545 - 08/16/12 01:12 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

so can we say we are 'seeing' biologicaly microscopic animations of ourselves on acid?


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Fermented Mushrooms!!
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'The second seal: “All CONTAMINATED things and events are unsatisfactory.”'



"I envy you. You North Americans are very lucky. You are fighting the most important fight of all - you live in THE HEART OF THE BEAST."

--Anonymous Guerilla, or is he..

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Offlinemellowparty
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Re: Did LSD really help Francis Crick deduce the double helical structure of LSD [Re: pablokabute]
    #16709576 - 08/16/12 01:19 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

I see plasmodia crawling on the wall so sure why not :lol:


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OfflineSeahawk1
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Re: Did LSD really help Francis Crick deduce the double helical structure of LSD [Re: mellowparty]
    #16710891 - 08/16/12 07:24 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

I could def see the "aha" coming from some 50ug doses....oh and Franklin's awesome crystallography; but could it be the acid and her pics are what led to the "aha"?
What I want to know is if it was an "aha" or if it was a maybe this is it and now lets talk about it for awhile and do some math and take some more pics of the diffraction patterns....

I'm sure this stuff is known, I saw the movie with Goldbloom, I just don't believe movies made for tv.

At UW there is a metal frame(vintage) DNA structure on display in-between the 4th/5th floors of the Biochemistry dept. I always look at it and think it's awesome.

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Invisiblebadchad
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Re: Did LSD really help Francis Crick deduce the double helical structure of LSD [Re: mellowparty]
    #16713349 - 08/17/12 06:30 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Elucidating the structure of DNA was a monumental task.  They had been working diligently on it for years...

LSD may have helped, but it wasn't as if Watson and Crick were sitting around eating chips on LSD and then suddenly they thought:  "aha!". 

IMO, it had more to do with backbreaking lab work than LSD.


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...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

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Offlinemellowparty
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Re: Did LSD really help Francis Crick deduce the double helical structure of LSD [Re: badchad]
    #16713371 - 08/17/12 06:35 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

The way I see it the acid might have been a catalyst to put together all the pieces of information. They had the diffraction patterns and info on base stacking which fits the X-ray data, Chargaff's rules and so on. So yeah the acid could've have really helped him put that shit together.

Problem is there is no real source mentioning that he was on acid when he might have thought of it. Crick seems like the type who would take acid and solve problems but I just don't see the credible sources.


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OfflineFlashLightning
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Re: Did LSD really help Francis Crick deduce the double helical structure of LSD [Re: mellowparty]
    #16714013 - 08/17/12 09:56 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

from my understanding and reading, theres no proof he was ON acid when he made the discovery, just that he liked to do acid.


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Invisiblepablokabute
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Re: Did LSD really help Francis Crick deduce the double helical structure of LSD [Re: badchad]
    #16715101 - 08/17/12 02:21 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

badchad said:
Elucidating the structure of DNA was a monumental task.  They had been working diligently on it for years...

LSD may have helped, but it wasn't as if Watson and Crick were sitting around eating chips on LSD and then suddenly they thought:  "aha!". 

IMO, it had more to do with backbreaking lab work than LSD.






AND THEN THE COSMIC TWIN SERPENT BECAME APPARENT.  :getstoned:


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Fermented Mushrooms!!
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'The second seal: “All CONTAMINATED things and events are unsatisfactory.”'



"I envy you. You North Americans are very lucky. You are fighting the most important fight of all - you live in THE HEART OF THE BEAST."

--Anonymous Guerilla, or is he..

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Offlinemellowparty
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Re: Did LSD really help Francis Crick deduce the double helical structure of LSD [Re: pablokabute]
    #16715117 - 08/17/12 02:23 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

I like to think they took acid after they made the model and it made perfect sense in every way :lol:


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OfflineCannashroom
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Re: Did LSD really help Francis Crick deduce the double helical structure of LSD [Re: DieCommie]
    #16726135 - 08/19/12 11:38 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
Just because he used doesn't mean it really helped him deduce the structure.  The data he stole from Rosalind probably helped a bit though... :wink:




It is a common misconception he stole her data.  It is completely untrue.  I have read his original 1954 article and he clearly thanks Franklin for the data and says it would not have been possible without it.  The controversy was because maurice wilkins had shown some of the pictures to crick without her permission.  Ontop of that one of Franklin's PhD students who was doing the work also gave some data to them.

She did predict the phosphates on the outside and the number of water molecules needed for stability, but did not come up with the entire molecule.

She died before the Nobel prize was given, and most believe she would also have shared it if she was still alive.  I think crick and/or watson may have said some bad things about her later which caused a lot of controversy, they later retracted those statements in a book.

Of course franklin's data was essential in realizing the helical structure, but it also took some of their own insights to come up with the bonding pattern.

As for LSD, it came from an interview from a reporter.  He claimed that crick admitted to it, but asked for it not to be published, and thus it was published after his death, making it close to impossible to verify.

The double helix is a common motif in psychedelic imagery, even from indigenous tribes/cultures like the aztecs.


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Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole nature in its beauty.

Nobody is able to achieve this completely but striving for such achievement is, in itself, a part of the liberation and a foundation for inner security."

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