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OfflineWorld Seed SupplyV
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Registered: 11/12/09
Posts: 2,154
Loc: New York, USA Flag
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Potential Kratom ban in FL - Please Read
    #16668704 - 08/08/12 11:40 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

I apologize for the double post of this link. I just wanted to make sure this was seen by as many people as possible.

More and more it seems synthetics are having a negative impact on herbs, especially when they are sold on the same shelves. I hope that everyone can please offer help by emailing or at least passing this onto people that will.

You may not be affected by this where you live. But it could be the sign of a trend that may affect you.  For those of you who think your opinion does not matter, please note that a move to ban kratom in Louisiana was repealed when they did more research.  We tend to think that lawmakers already know what they’re banning, but it seems they sometimes become just as caught up in the hype they read and move to act on what they really see as a threat.  But you have an opportunity to offer truth when you believe it has been corrupted.
http://kratomassociation.org/forum/7-ka-watchdog-section/3100-pinellas-county-florida-moves-to-ban-kratom-by-september-15-unless-you-help

Here are some valid points.

1) We can debate the medicinal benefits of the kratom as we do with other plants. But there is at least enough valid scientific research to suggest that it be not be treated like things that do not.

2) The move to ban kratom was reversed in Louisiana when more research was done. It is important to note that research was a factor here, and what was found alleviated many of the worries that people would tend to assume before knowing the facts.

3) Some herbs are being scrutinized for being on the same shelves as synthetics.  Just because a product is sold alongside another, it does not mean that it should be grouped together without being evaluated completely on its own.  Apparently, gummy bears and potato chips have been sold alongside these products as well.  We know these products are relatively benign but only because we’ve tried them and because we’ve used their established history to form that opinion.  So why not use the same criteria to make judgments on all products?

4) Although the comparison is an easy way to demonize it, kratom contains no opiates.  Accordingly, research shows that it does not have the same addiction potential or severity of addiction.

5) To acknowledge that something has some addiction potential should not equal a ban.  A large part of the U.S. population is addicted to caffeine, but these people are generally still considered to be in good health and are able to function normally in society.  Testimonials from daily kratom users and studies done on regular users indicate that kratom is similar in this way in the majority of cases.  You will always find a range of experiences with anything.  But it important to make an unbiased assessment based on the cumulative experiences of a population.

6) The criteria for banning a product have to do with a substance’s tendency to have a negative impact on health and a general strain on society, not on the isolated effect or experience it causes.
 
7) Kratom is not known to cause fatal overdose.  It is in no way life-threatening.  In the majority of cases, side effects are rather mild or non-existent. 

8) Kratom is not a hallucinogen or even close.  Any source that claims it is can immediately discredited because the sheer misinformation of that claim suggests that anything else they say is open to being just as false.

9) Kratom has a long history of traditional use, and so doing studies of lifetime users is possible.  It is not something new that has just recently been created with untold effects.

10) Prohibition is aimed at reducing threats to the general order of society.  You will find that the really harmful things tend to show themselves a lot more quickly. The use, demand and incidence of problems all have trouble hiding themselves as part of the innate nature of their being harmful.  A very test of harm potential can be how quickly these things become evident. Whereas things like synthetic cannabinoids and bath salts have had epidemics almost immediately, the herbs they might be associated with have all been available far longer and have not manifested in nearly the same way. Therefore, a potential kratom ban has little to improve upon.

11) Kratom is not involved in violent crime and does not have a reputation of motivating users to act irrationally or dangerously as alcohol might.

12) Prohibition often motivates the discovery and exploration of new replacements. This creates new problems to deal with that can put a further strain on the resources of a government. Synthetic marijuana and bath salts are a prime and undeniable example of this.  Many recent articles focus on the strain on resources that dealing with these things create. 

13) The availability of kratom until now has already shown that it will not become a strain on resources …unless it becomes banned. Then, kratom would be just one other thing to tie up police resources and court time.  The cost-effectiveness in terms of a true benefit to society really does not exist.

14) Banning kratom would reduce the amount of sales tax and income tax collected by governments.

15) Perhaps new standards for marketing are more beneficial than a ban.

16) An age limit or ban on sales in certain types of establishments ( ie. Gas Stations and convenience stores) might limit the presence of products in the public eye. 

17) If prohibited, kratom possession would probably warrant similar punishments to that of opiates.  For those who ignore the potential for addiction, it’s logical that they would turn to true opiates if they are facing the same fate for possession anyway. Opiates have a well-established potential for abuse and addiction.  They are also known to lead to negative effects on society. 

18) Although results vary with any treatment, a number of testimonials over the course of time indicate that kratom has helped with opiate withdrawal.  It substitutes on the same receptors without actually being an opiate.

19) Many regular opiate users are no longer sensitive enough to feel the effects of kratom beyond its effects on withdrawal.  The general consensus is that kratom is not an effective substitute for opiate abuse.  If it were, it would have been an epidemic by now.

20) Kratom use, even with modern marketing and communication methods, meaning availability is potentially much easier, is in no way comparable to what opiate use was prior to prohibition.

21) A large part of the population of kratom users is middle-aged adults and war veterans who use it for pain management as an alternative to extremely addictive substances like oxycontin.  If they were simply looking to use it recreationally, they would not be substituting.

22) Signing a bill that prohibits something that can reduce opiate use in some people, particularly when that substance is not known to cause death itself, would indirectly lead to the deaths of at least some individuals.

23) Banning kratom would significantly affect the lives of many people in a negative way.  It seems easy to take what might be a preventative measure on something.  But when you consider the implications it might have for the everyday lives of people who truly believe in it for pain, concentration and depression, the severity of how it would affect their daily lives should also be taken into context along with the number of people it would affect.

24) Opiates are well-established as a scourge of society, and there has recently been extra effort to minimize the harm they are doing.  Banning a natural, non-opiate with a long history of human use would only be counterintuitive to those efforts.

25) Kratom has an unpleasant taste that repels many users.  It requires a fairly substantial amount of material that is unpleasant to taste, and it requires a bit of preparation or effort to consume.  This reduces its appeal and overall popularity among many people as something specifically for abuse.  Perhaps this explains why it has remained relatively unknown to the public despite such a long history of human use.

26) Since kratom is often used as a tea, it lends itself more to being used within the confines of one’s own home rather than in public.

27) The active components of kratom generally do not extract well. Extracts are quite inferior to the unrefined product.  This generally forces users to deal with the unpleasant characteristics of the unextracted material and reduces the problem of concentrated products being available.  Extracting also requires a volume of material that makes cost-effectiveness a hindrance.

28) Mention of kratom leaf in the media suggesting the leaf is chewed indicates a level of ignorance.  That description pertains almost exclusively to traditional use in Asia.  Chewing kratom pertains to the fresh leaf.  Kratom does not grow well in the U.S., and production of leaf for any type of real use is almost non-existent.  It is difficult to grow and will generally not produce enough leaf.  The leaf is also generally considered to be of very low quality unless it comes from older trees grown in the right climate.  The only people with access to fresh leaf in the U.S. are a handful of plant enthusiasts who would have to be more concerned with the hobby of cultivating these plants than the logistic production of leaf because the price of a plant would not be cost-effective for anything else.  The point here is that people are gathering their information from sources that clearly have no experience on the subject.

29) Many voters believe that they should have the right to choose what they do with their bodies.  The majority of people who are aware of kratom, especially those who know the facts about it, would prefer to have it remain legal.

30) Even if you believe the rights of the individual are superseded by the rights of the greater common good, a ban on kratom would not have enough of a positive effect on society ( now or in the future) to warrant the negative impact on the all kratom users.  In fact, it could lean more towards a negative impact when all is considered.


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Invisibleotakun
Sick asshat
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Registered: 07/20/12
Posts: 331
Loc: Hiding in your next trip
Re: Potential Kratom ban in FL - Please Read [Re: World Seed Supply]
    #16669644 - 08/09/12 05:48 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

I'm not a huge kratom fan, but I am against this, and many things like it. I'm also pissed because I spend a lot of time in that exact damned county...
Thanks for the heads up, and hopefully this won't pass, but instead die a well deserved death. I'll be doing what I can around here to help.


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I'm always looking for seeds/cuttings/prints/syringes of various plants and mushrooms. I'm always open to donations of just about anything, and trades are almost always welcome. Trade list to

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InvisibleFunki Porcini
Male
Registered: 07/16/12
Posts: 2,100
Re: Potential Kratom ban in FL - Please Read [Re: otakun]
    #16670115 - 08/09/12 09:08 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

I knew it was only a matter of time before this plant started getting banned.I'm going to cherish mine like she's my child:biggrin:

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OfflineMushyMatt
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Registered: 10/13/11
Posts: 2,551
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Re: Potential Kratom ban in FL - Please Read [Re: Funki Porcini]
    #16671785 - 08/09/12 03:14 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Its all the fucking head shops that ruin it for everyone. Here there are people that actually use this plant for its medicinal purposes, and then you have the dumb teenage kids constantly buying it for the high.


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Reborn - 6/08/13

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OfflineWorld Seed SupplyV
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Registered: 11/12/09
Posts: 2,154
Loc: New York, USA Flag
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Re: Potential Kratom ban in FL - Please Read [Re: Funki Porcini]
    #16676650 - 08/10/12 01:36 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

This does not have to happen if people do their part to educate. Much of the recent moves stem from misconceptions because of the synthetic problem. I know it seems that individuals are powerless, but testimonials and other information have helped make the difference in some cases already. 

You have to consider that they are making decisions without any real information. It's not always that they simply want to ban everything. But if they truly see it as comparable to the other problems they are dealing with, then it wold only be logical for them to act hastily before the problem potentially progresses. It creates a rush to act without doing proper research. 

It's odd to think, but members of the general population who have known about it all this time often have more knowledge than the people who decide its fate. If you've been interested, you've probably done some of your own research. You can probably differentiate between valid sources and those just looking to create hype because you've read enough sources.  But if you didn't, an overwhelming amount of information by people could help educate you, and you might at the very least decide to look further into it.


--------------------
www.worldseedsupply.com
HELPING THE WORLD GROW!

50% OFF 1st KRATOM COLLECTION POWDER ORDER @ www.kratomcollectionshop.com
USE CODE WELCOME50NWEW!


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OfflineRen
Found in a World of Illusion
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Registered: 06/16/12
Posts: 1,187
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Re: Potential Kratom ban in FL - Please Read [Re: World Seed Supply]
    #16678541 - 08/10/12 07:11 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

So ridiculous, why are we spending time trying to ban the good plants? I hope someone can give a good pro kratom presentation to this committee. I would much rather have some kratom addicts than heroin addicts. Not that I have ever even heard of a kratom addict... *sigh* All the board will hear is "KIDS ARE GETTING HIGH".

If you want to get that hardxcore about everything then reinstate the 21st amendment to begin.


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This is a shared account, everything posted by us is entirely fictional for purposes of social experimentation and exploration.
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Offlinekadakuda
The Great"Green".......East
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Registered: 05/21/04
Posts: 7,048
Loc: Asia
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Re: Potential Kratom ban in FL - Please Read [Re: Ren]
    #16681200 - 08/11/12 09:55 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Everyone try and do something.  This same thing happened with Salvia, and when a lot of us stuffed their faces with facts and *references to legitimate journals/studies** they stopped and its now still legal.  You guys can do the same.  I wrote a quick email for this as well (i even spell checked it), hope you guys stay free :smile:


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The seeds you won't sow are the plants you dont grow.

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OfflineRudolphTheRed
Female


Registered: 11/21/12
Posts: 209
Loc: TN/GA
Last seen: 8 years, 3 months
Re: Potential Kratom ban in FL - Please Read [Re: World Seed Supply]
    #17473562 - 12/30/12 08:43 PM (11 years, 2 months ago)

that is so ridiculous...but so is that shithole pinellas co...i hate florida...(grew up in sarasota)..

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