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Offlinehispeed67
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Registered: 02/06/02
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need help with flow hood design
    #16201768 - 05/08/12 08:41 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)
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I recently acquired this piece of eqpt. http://www.abatement.com/construction-renovation/healthcare-products-port-air-scrub-pas600hc.htm I would like to use it in a laminar flow hood, but it appears that I will only be able to use it as blower. I was thinking i could connect the output to the flowhood via 8"ducting, then in the flow hood, i would have a hepa filter to provide laminar flow into the box i would work in.. anybody have any ideas on the best use of this piece of eqpt?


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InvisibleEmmanuel Goldstein


Registered: 02/06/12
Posts: 255
Loc: usa Flag
Re: need help with flow hood design [Re: hispeed67]
    #16203616 - 05/09/12 06:32 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

You purchased yourself a very cool piece of equipment to be perfectly honest with you. It's an awesome company I've recently become a rep for and I don't think you realize the potential of the product you purchased. I'm not personally familiar with this but it's clear based on your own link that it's HEPA capable and you can two stage prefilter it to extend the HEPA performance for a long time. Did you purchase it from the company or after the fact, in used condition? I wish I had known about something like this for my hood when i had open set up because this can sit right on top of the hood itself and tied in directly to the hood inlet. you could rewire the pot to control flow rate at the work station. This can really work out well for you.

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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: need help with flow hood design [Re: Emmanuel Goldstein]
    #16203718 - 05/09/12 07:23 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

You wouldn't need something like that to supply a flow hood because a simple furnace filter will suffice.  I also doubt it would have enough power to flow through a second HEPA filter.

Doesn't it have the HEPA built in?  If so, and you have a small room, it could be used to scrub the air before going to work.  I run my flowhood for at least an hour in a small bedroom/lab and often need to open jars or cultures outside the direct flow.
RR


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InvisibleEmmanuel Goldstein


Registered: 02/06/12
Posts: 255
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Re: need help with flow hood design [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #16203866 - 05/09/12 08:40 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

I'm not sire what you mean by a furnace filter being adequate but this could definitely be used to clean a room pretty quickly depending on it's volume.

I just got off of the phone with my rep and she said it comes with both prefilters and a hepa filter rated at 99.97% which seems to fly with most here as far as efficiencies go. And OP can purchase replacements him/herself direct she said. On my laminar hood I had an 8x8 inlet that distributed air into a fixed plenum. An adapter could be easily made to connect to the 8" round outlet of the scrubber. That unit is rated at 200-600 cfm though, which is high for a laminar hood even at the lowest setting. I don't see why the inlet couldn't be throttled down though, although high is certainly better then slow. This really is a very cool piece of equipment and the company itself makes awesome products overall. It's good to see an American company do well.

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Offlinehispeed67
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Re: need help with flow hood design [Re: Emmanuel Goldstein]
    #16209349 - 05/10/12 10:44 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

pretty sure it is strong enough to get proper flow through another hepa, but ur idea for construction of a plenum chamber, or something to that effect is probably a good pointer though. the air coming out is 200-500 cfm (i have the pas500, but it has been upgraded to pas600. only difference is cfm). It has a dial for output velocity, but i need some way to make the round 8" duct into a square for laminar flow into a monotub. Not sure i understand completely the laminar concept. I thought hepa treated air would be clean and air movement wouldn't matter cause the air would be clean. was going to pipe it into a monotube from the short side. With lid on, only hepa air would come into the tub and it would escape out the top under the lid...


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InvisibleEmmanuel Goldstein


Registered: 02/06/12
Posts: 255
Loc: usa Flag
Re: need help with flow hood design [Re: hispeed67]
    #16210734 - 05/10/12 04:08 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Any sheet metal shop with a half way decent fabricator can easily whip a transition together for you as long as you have the dimensions. Believe it or not you can simply cap off the inlet of the hood and seal it with a quality caulk and cut in a round collar with elbows and a short piece of round duct or install a short section of duct with an end cap and tie directly into the side of the duct with a piece of round pipe. This would work out well for you the pressure drop would be higher because of the air flow is changing directions without a smooth bend to the duct. Anything you can do to slow or impede air speed will help you here because even at the minimum setting of 200 cfm you're still very high compared to all the laminar flow hoods I've worked within research environments.

If your having a hard time understanding the concept of the duct systems I described a fabricator could draw it out for you quickly based on my description.

Air speed/volume leaking out of the minimum closed setting on the glass curtain is relatively low . All you need is a slight positive pressure in order to prevent anything from entering the hood at your work station, it doesn't take much. If you were running low pressures/volume you could purchase a magnehelic gauge off of eBay believe it or not, not that you would need one because your air flow is so high as I've already pointed out. A magnehelic gauge gives you constant visual ques that your hood is under positive pressure at all times and you could find them with an alarm switch.

If I had your blower with my old lam hood I'd be changing the air at a rate of about 200 times per hour. That's ridiculous high and RodgerRabbit was correct when he said this would clean a standard room in an hour easy. I purchased my hood from a company that was making titanium fuel cells up in north jersey. It was a brand spanking new unit, still on it's original pallet and wrapped in plastic but the company was purchased by an investment group and because they were basically only after the technology, everything sold cheaply. I purchased a brand new hood for $300.00 off of eBay at a time when the hood sold new for over $4000.00 at the time. I sold it for $1200.00 heavily used to a father and son team who came up from south carolina. They were good, they had that hood in their truck in minutes and their strapping system was perfect. It was off of welded tabs placed perfectly off of the bed of the truck. I also had mine set up for tig welding with a second blower that drew air up through and out the hood on a second blower that moved much more air. I used a simple trol-a-temp round duct damper off of a transformer and light switch. It worked out well for me. I really hated selling it but we kind of needed the money at the time and were also moving and it would have had to go into storage, which made no sense at all.

It's cool that you found a hood, where did you find yours? eBay? I'm just curious. I hope I was able to shed some light on this for you.

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Offlinehispeed67
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Registered: 02/06/02
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Loc: Florida
Last seen: 11 years, 10 months
Re: need help with flow hood design [Re: Emmanuel Goldstein]
    #16218884 - 05/12/12 08:57 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

haven't found a hood yet..just this awesome hepa system.. it sells for 4999.00 new. i picked up at auction for 200. gotta figure out how to design a flowhood. that's what this thread is for...


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Offlinehispeed67
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Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 80
Loc: Florida
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Re: need help with flow hood design [Re: Emmanuel Goldstein]
    #16218897 - 05/12/12 09:02 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

if i ran it in a 12'x16'x10' room for four hours, do you think i could to g2g in open air???


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InvisibleEmmanuel Goldstein


Registered: 02/06/12
Posts: 255
Loc: usa Flag
Re: need help with flow hood design [Re: hispeed67]
    #16238702 - 05/16/12 06:34 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

I'm sorry for not getting back to you sooner, Ive been busy. I've never worked in open air at anytime to be honest with you. RR would be the expert, I work isolated all of the time but moving 600 cfm in a room that size for that length of time in my minds eye would be whistle clean but again, even though I'm confident I have no practical experience to back it up at all. Hopefully RR can comment because he's already stated in this thread that he filters the air for an hour before working in open air. To me he's basically answered your question for you. When I say flow hood I'm talking laminar fume control lab hood with a glass curtain and some people consider a box a flow hood. There's a box on ebay right now for $250.00 and barely used according to the seller. And keep in mind when you purchase an actual lab hood you may fall onto the radar of someone even though your intentions are innocent. With terrorism what it is today government agencies don't screw around any more and a hood could be used by a terrorist to handle biological agents.

Whatever you do, if you use a hood with that scrubber, 200 cfm is a lot. Can you work with it? Probably but you'll be changing the air very rapidly in your work area. You may be better off just cleaning the air in your room. if you do the air change calculations you'll get a feel for what I mean, it's ridiculous really. In talking to the factory rep that thing is designed for hard core field use. You can test it easy by scrubbing the air and laying a few plates down in area you intend to work in and see if you culture anything out. I should really start getting used to working in the open myself to be honest, I mean I'm really being too anal about things when it's not necessary.

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