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InvisibleJessica Swift
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The Fourth Way
    #15836828 - 02/20/12 09:32 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

More: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fourth_Way

"The Fourth Way refers to a concept used by G.I. Gurdjieff to describe an approach to self-development learned over years of travel in the East that combined what he saw as three established traditional "ways," or "schools" into a fourth way. These three ways were of the body, mind and emotions. The term "The Fourth Way" was further developed by P.D. Ouspensky in his lectures and writings. Posthumously, Ouspensky's students published a book entitled Fourth Way, based on his lectures. The "Fourth Way" is sometimes referred to as "The Work," "Work on oneself," or "The System."

Anyone read the book?


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InvisibleJessica Swift
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Re: The Fourth Way [Re: Jessica Swift]
    #15836836 - 02/20/12 09:36 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Basis of teachings
The Fourth Way focuses on the ability to constantly perform "conscious labors" and "intentional suffering."[8]

Conscious Labor is an action where the person who is performing the act is present to what he is doing; he is not absentminded during his act, and or is "remembering himself." At the same time he is striving to perform the act more efficiently.

Intentional suffering is the act of struggling against the desires of the physical body such as daydreaming, pleasure, food (eating for reasons other than real hunger), etc... In Gurdjieff's book Beelzebub's Tales he states that "the greatest 'intentional suffering' can be obtained in our presences by compelling ourselves to endure the displeasing manifestations of others toward ourselves" [25]

Gurdjieff claimed that these two acts were the basis of all evolution of man.

The Fourth Way's focus is on raising the level of consciousness a person can experience, with the ultimate aim of creating a permanent higher level of consciousness. Specific methods are employed to achieve this aim, some of which are described below.

Self-Observation

One aspect is to strive to observe in one's self the certain behaviors and habits which are usually only observed in others, and to observe them in one's self as dispassionately as one may observe them in others; to observe one's self as an interesting stranger. Another aspect is to attempt to discover in one's self an attention that can differentiate between the actual thoughts, feelings, and sensations that are taking place at the moment, without judging or analyzing what is observed.[26]

The Need for Efforts

Gurdjieff emphasized that awakening results from consistent, prolonged efforts. These efforts are the ones that are made after a person is already exhausted and feels that he can't go anymore, but nevertheless he pushes himself.

The Many 'I's

Many I's is a term which indicates the different feelings and thoughts of ‘I’ in a person: I think, I want, I know best, I prefer, I am happy, I am hungry, I am tired, etc. These feelings and thoughts of ‘I’ usually have nothing in common with one another, and are present for short periods of time. They tie in directly with Gurdjieff's claim that man has no unity in himself. This lack of unity results in wanting one thing now, and another, perhaps contradictory, thing later.

Centers

Main article Centers (Fourth Way)
Gurdjieff classified plants as having one center, animals two and humans three. Centers refer to apparatuses within a being that dictate specific organic functions. There are three main centers in a man: intellectual, emotional and physical, and two higher centers: higher emotional and higher intellectual.

Body, Essence and Personality

Gurdjieff divided people into three independent parts, that is, into Body, Essence and Personality.

Body is the physical functions of a body.
Essence - is a "natural part of a person" or "what he is born with"; this is the part of a being which is said to have the ability to evolve.
Personality - is everything artificial that he has "learned" and "seen".
Cosmic Laws

Gurdjieff focused on two main cosmic laws, the Law of Three and the Law of Seven[citation needed].

The Law of Seven is described by Gurdjieff as "the first fundamental cosmic law". This law is used to explain processes. The basic use of the law of seven is to explain why nothing in nature and in life constantly occurs in a straight line, that is to say that there are always ups and downs in life which occur lawfully. Examples of this can be noticed in athletic performances, where a high ranked athlete always has periodic downfalls, as well as in nearly all graphs that plot topics that occur over time, such as the economic graphs, population graphs, death-rate graphs and so on. All show parabolic periods that keep rising and falling. Gurdjieff claimed that since these periods occur lawfully based on the law of seven that it is possible to keep a process in a straight line if the necessary shocks were introduced at the right time. A piano keyboard is an example of the law of seven, as the seven notes of the major scale correspond exactly to it.
The Law of Three is described by Gurdjieff as "the second fundamental cosmic law". This law states that every whole phenomenon is composed of three separate sources, which are Active, Passive[disambiguation needed ] and Reconciling or Neutral. This law applies to everything in the universe and humanity, as well as all the structures and processes. The Three Centers in a human, which Gurdjieff said were the Intellectual Centre, the Emotional Centre and the Moving Centre, are an expression of the law of three. Gurdjieff taught his students to think of the law of three forces as essential to transforming the energy of the human being. The process of transformation requires the three actions of affirmation, denial and reconciliation.
How the Law of Seven and Law of Three function together is said to be illustrated on the Fourth Way Enneagram, a nine-pointed symbol which is the central glyph of Gurdjieff's system.

[edit]Use of symbols
In his explanations Gurdjieff often used different symbols such as the Enneagram and the Ray of Creation. Gurdjieff said that "the enneagram is a universal symbol. All knowledge can be included in the enneagram and with the help of the enneagram it can be interpreted ... A man may be quite alone in the desert and he can trace the enneagram in the sand and in it read the eternal laws of the universe. And every time he can learn something new, something he did not know before."[27] The ray of creation is a diagram which represents the Earth's place in the Universe. The diagram has eight levels, each corresponding to Gurdjieff's laws of octaves.

Through the elaboration of the law of octaves and the meaning of the enneagram, Gurdjieff offered his students alternative means of conceptualizing the world and their place in it.

[edit]Working conditions and sacred dances
To provide conditions in which attention could be exercised more intensively, Gurdjieff also taught his pupils "sacred dances" or "movements" which they performed together as a group, and he left a body of music inspired by what he heard in visits to remote monasteries and other places, which was written for piano in collaboration with one of his pupils, Thomas de Hartmann.

Gurdjieff laid emphasis on the idea that the seeker must conduct his or her own search. The teacher cannot do the student's work for the student, but is more of a guide on the path to self-discovery. As a teacher, Gurdjieff specialized in creating conditions for students - conditions in which growth was possible, in which efficient progress could be made by the willing. To find oneself in a set of conditions that a gifted teacher has arranged has another benefit. As Gurdjieff put it, "You must realize that each man has a definite repertoire of roles which he plays in ordinary circumstances ... but put him into even only slightly different circumstances and he is unable to find a suitable role and for a short time he becomes himself."

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InvisibleJessica Swift
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Re: The Fourth Way [Re: Jessica Swift]
    #15836872 - 02/20/12 09:47 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: The Fourth Way [Re: Jessica Swift]
    #15837195 - 02/20/12 11:43 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Not the way for me. A lot of it sounds like putting unnecessary suffering on the plate to eat for some greater goal. But my greater goal is lessening suffering so that would be counter-productive.

Of course one could say it isn't unnecessary suffering and they may be right. But to me it seems that life provides plenty of suffering and one doesn't have to seek it out. Seeking out suffering is unnecessary.


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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InvisibleJessica Swift
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Re: The Fourth Way [Re: Kickle]
    #15837254 - 02/20/12 11:56 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

When I thought about intentionally seeking suffering those people came to mind who enjoy erotic asphyxiation and sadism. Pain can also be a pleasurable attachment, and many a Rock n Roll songs have exploited this. I also don't see much gold in suffering beyond realizing it's causes and effects.

As for Gurdjieff, I've just been searching a bit to look for hidden gems. He was respected by some favorite authors and philosophers of mine, but thus far I'm not finding much.

Sometimes I wonder if the personality types that now sell things with charisma on the shopping network, used to be the folks that got plebes to adore them with gifts for their spiritual knack.

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OfflineKickleM
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Re: The Fourth Way [Re: Jessica Swift]
    #15837293 - 02/20/12 12:06 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Might be. Snake oil takes a lot of different forms. Salesfolk are something else to watch in action.


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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OfflineGinseng1
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Re: The Fourth Way [Re: Kickle]
    #15837536 - 02/20/12 01:05 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

I felt that in Gurdjieffs system, the esoteric stuff such as the ray of creation and strange pseudo-scientific stuff about the cosmos seems like a confusing and unnecessary burden.

I did feel, however, from reading about his teachings that he did a great deal in delineating the causes for the personal samsaric experience to a very concise degree, such as the concepts of mechanicalness and internal and external identification, which I haven't come across in other writings and teaching in such fine detail.  I found the non-esoteric parts of his teachings helpful in clarifying some truth about false personality and its manifestations, and some interesting prescriptions to work against it.



--------------------
Flowing through beginningless time since time without beginning...

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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: The Fourth Way [Re: Jessica Swift]
    #15839103 - 02/20/12 06:26 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Jessica Swift said:
More: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fourth_Way

"The Fourth Way refers to a concept used by G.I. Gurdjieff to describe an approach to self-development learned over years of travel in the East that combined what he saw as three established traditional "ways," or "schools" into a fourth way. These three ways were of the body, mind and emotions. The term "The Fourth Way" was further developed by P.D. Ouspensky in his lectures and writings. Posthumously, Ouspensky's students published a book entitled Fourth Way, based on his lectures. The "Fourth Way" is sometimes referred to as "The Work," "Work on oneself," or "The System."

Anyone read the book?






Uh, yup. Anyone who uses Entheogens for the right reason is pursuing a Fourth Way path.  http://www.thefane.org/client.html#item16,2
I put this on my Facebook page, just today:
http://www.darkecho.com/JohnShirley/jsgurd.html


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Offlinehusmmoor
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Re: The Fourth Way [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #15841379 - 02/21/12 06:21 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
Uh, yup. Anyone who uses Entheogens for the right reason is pursuing a Fourth Way path.



Entheogen use is not the defining characteristic of the Fourth Way.

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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: The Fourth Way [Re: husmmoor]
    #15843793 - 02/21/12 05:58 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

husmmoor said:
Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
Uh, yup. Anyone who uses Entheogens for the right reason is pursuing a Fourth Way path.



Entheogen use is not the defining characteristic of the Fourth Way.




True, but The Fourth Way, The way of the Sly [Wo]Man, is a path that recognizes 'taking a substance' over and against the way of the Monk, Fakir, and Yogi, though all three have been known to take substances in the service of their respective paths.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Offlinehusmmoor
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Re: The Fourth Way [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #15844001 - 02/21/12 06:38 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
Quote:

husmmoor said:
Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
Uh, yup. Anyone who uses Entheogens for the right reason is pursuing a Fourth Way path.



Entheogen use is not the defining characteristic of the Fourth Way.




True, but The Fourth Way, The way of the Sly [Wo]Man, is a path that recognizes 'taking a substance' over and against the way of the Monk, Fakir, and Yogi, though all three have been known to take substances in the service of their respective paths.




Yes, you're right. It was just the wording I wanted to point out. :thumbup:

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InvisibleMiddlemanM

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Re: The Fourth Way [Re: Jessica Swift]
    #15844660 - 02/21/12 08:36 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

For a much clearer exposition of G.'s teachings, read In Search of the Miraculous by Ouspensky and The Human Biological Machine as a Transformational Apparatus by E.J. Gold.

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InvisibleJessica Swift
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Re: The Fourth Way [Re: Middleman]
    #15845525 - 02/21/12 11:31 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Thanks for your recommendation, Mr. Middle. That looks like Joyce in your avatar, no?

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Offlinetracedwards313
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Re: The Fourth Way [Re: Jessica Swift]
    #15850328 - 02/22/12 11:19 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

this is cool

but that deoxy is even cooler :thumbup:


--------------------


I love Psilocybin.  :shrug:


Psilocybin, LSD, Ketamine, Mescaline, 2C-E, 5-Meo-DMT, DXM, LSA, Marijuana, Alcohol, Heroin/Opiates, 4-Aco-DMT, Methylone, 25I-NBOMe, Cocaine/Crack, amphetamines, Pharms, PCP, Benzos, DMT/Aya, Salvia, MDMA, Nitrous, MXE, 2C-C

Exile Nation Project

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InvisibleJessica Swift
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Re: The Fourth Way [Re: tracedwards313]
    #15850853 - 02/23/12 02:36 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

tracedwards313 said:
this is cool

but that deoxy is even cooler :thumbup:




When I first stumbled on Deoxy years ago, one of the first effects the material had on me is it made me feel less crazy - to read that others have similar ideas about the world.

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Offlinebloodbrother778
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Re: The Fourth Way [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #16916544 - 09/26/12 07:02 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
Quote:

husmmoor said:
Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
Uh, yup. Anyone who uses Entheogens for the right reason is pursuing a Fourth Way path.



Entheogen use is not the defining characteristic of the Fourth Way.




True, but The Fourth Way, The way of the Sly [Wo]Man, is a path that recognizes 'taking a substance' over and against the way of the Monk, Fakir, and Yogi, though all three have been known to take substances in the service of their respective paths.




be careful, i think you misinterpret what is said about taking a certain "substance" or "pill"

this does not refer to anything you take externally, but to the inner alchemy one performs on one's own negative emotions
when we feel strong anger for example we waste a lot of energy on it and get nothing in return, but if we are able to resist that anger (which is extremely hard to do) all this energy that would have normally been wasted on anger becomes available for our use

think about a time in your life when you did something that really took balls to do, maybe asking a girl out or standing up to a bully etc, when everything about you everything in your body was telling you to stop but you went through with it anyway - how did you feel afterwards?

this is the "pill" - putting oneself in an emotionally charged moment or situation and inwardly with skill stopping one's own tendency to get unnecessarily emotional so that you can achieve a more harmonious state of being and use this energy to achieve your aim

I'm not saying that psychedelics cannot be helpful, on the contrary it was precisely my use of psychedelics that made me aware of the true extent of the abilities and powers available to me

and Gurdjieff even told Ouspensky, as retold in O's "In Search for the Miraculous" that certain schools do use narcotics and it can be the quickest way to show someone what a higher state of being feels like, however the problem is that through the use of psychedelics we do not get to keep this state - this has been my experience that any harmony or enlightenment that I achieved through the use of psychedelics disappeared just as quickly, this is because they do not actually give us the power to do, which is what the fourth way is all about.

It is about being free and not dependent on outer things and psychedelics are outer things, so even if they can help in the beginning there comes a point where one has to let go of them

of course that is if you want to be free, if you want to be your own person, if that isn't really your motive then you will only use these ideas to serve your ego


this is why these ideas are not for everyone, they can easily be distorted


The fourth way teaches that one must not believe anything one is told unless one has verified it for oneself

Edited by bloodbrother778 (09/26/12 07:04 PM)

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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: The Fourth Way [Re: bloodbrother778]
    #16917435 - 09/26/12 09:24 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

The fourth way teaches that one must not believe anything one is told unless one has verified it for oneself

Buddha taught this. I agree.

any harmony or enlightenment that I achieved through the use of psychedelics disappeared just as quickly

How unfortunate. That is not my experience. The pivotal experiences changed the entire direction of my life, the highest experiences continue to effect me from a very deep place where they continue to resonate, not only in memories decades old, but as values forged in the fires of those experiences, which relativize everything else in my life. I do not know anybody who I grew up with that retained as much of a psychedelic stance as I have in terms of partners married, esthetics as clothing, art, music, home decor, or 'Flower Power' (outdoor cultivation of flowering plants in South Florida). Neither do I know anyone who came to value health and wholeness, even if it required the sacrifice of formally held habits (smoking, bad food, no exercise, etc.).

It is about being free and not dependent on outer things and psychedelics are outer things, so even if they can help in the beginning there comes a point where one has to let go of them


I agree completely. We take an Entheogenic Excursion maybe 1-3 times per year, and not being able to get acid, they are mushroom experiences, which are relatively brief. I consider them to be 'booster shots,' but like Terrence McKenna and Stephen Gaskin before him, as we age, we rely upon externals less and less. I still say that I want to die while on acid, but that is probably because I've said it for so long. In reality, unless I am in severe pain and distracted from lucid dying, it will probably be unnecessary. I am pretty psychedelic without psychedelics at this stage of my life. Dr. Jean Houston wrote that in a book of her's that she autographed as far back as 1977, but sometimes I'm a little slow at realizing things that perceptive people see clearly about me.



--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Offlinelolwut
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Re: The Fourth Way [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #16917548 - 09/26/12 09:47 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Osho talks about the Fourth Way too:

1. Instinct
2. Intellect
3. Intuition
4. Unnamed, whole

http://www.oshoteachings.com/osho-on-difference-between-human-nature-instinct-and-habit/


--------------------
Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth, and taste...

:haha:

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OfflineGrapefruit
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Re: The Fourth Way [Re: lolwut]
    #16917672 - 09/26/12 10:09 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

So, I think I might get one of these books as gurdijeff was Henry Miller's favourite guru. I'm interested. Anyone read it and not like it?

Quote:

and not being able to get acid,




You can get it online these days, it's relatively risk free as long as you don't have anything illegal at your house that's not so easy to hide while it comes through the post.


--------------------
Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

"Chat your fraff
Chat your fraff
Just chat your fraff
Chat your fraff"

Edited by Grapefruit (09/26/12 10:15 PM)

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InvisibleMiddlemanM

Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 8,399
Re: The Fourth Way [Re: bloodbrother778]
    #16917709 - 09/26/12 10:15 PM (11 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

bloodbrother778 said:


this is the "pill" - putting oneself in an emotionally charged moment or situation and inwardly with skill stopping one's own tendency to get unnecessarily emotional so that you can achieve a more harmonious state of being and use this energy to achieve your aim




Did G. himself ever use this "pill" metaphor?

Quote:

this is why these ideas are not for everyone, they can easily be distorted




All ideas are distortion. Making a study of ways is the best way to stay asleep.

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