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 cozc
Stranger
Registered: 06/14/11
Posts: 380
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 Rye boil times + germination 
#15549418 - 12/21/11 08:23 AM (12 years, 3 months ago) |
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I know im only supposed to boil for 5 minutes, since the grains should have absorbed all their moisture from the soak, but after 5 minutes of boiling my grain (after 24 hr soak) it still is very stiff and feels as if there is no moisture. When I first started in this hobby I had a habit of boiling my rye like it was wbs and let it go for 30 or more minutes and noticed no ill side effects besides maybe a drop of metabolites in my jars.
So why is a 5 minute boil better than a longer one when using rye grains?
Also, when soaking my rye, it ALWAYS germinates. Even after just a 12 hour soak I see little tap roots trying to come out of my grains. I hear that grain germinating will eat up all the nutes, but my jars still colonize just fine. I've never had a run where my rye didn't germinate so I wouldn't know the difference, and I don't feel like I can soak for less than 12 hours.
Is there a way I could stop my grain from germinating?
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 k00laid
NEMO
Registered: 05/03/10
Posts: 19,636
Last seen: 8 months, 20 days
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Re: Rye boil times + germination [Re: cozc]
#15549427 - 12/21/11 08:25 AM (12 years, 3 months ago) |
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soaking in hot water stops your rye from germinating
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cozc
Stranger
Registered: 06/14/11
Posts: 380
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Re: Rye boil times + germination [Re: k00laid]
#15549514 - 12/21/11 08:48 AM (12 years, 3 months ago) |
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I soak with water as hot as my tap will go (small amounts of steam), since I assumed the grains would absorb more water if it was warm as well as germinating more endospores.
Should I heat my water on the stove before adding it to the soak bucket?
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<--- good day
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k00laid
NEMO
Registered: 05/03/10
Posts: 19,636
Last seen: 8 months, 20 days
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Re: Rye boil times + germination [Re: cozc]
#15549517 - 12/21/11 08:49 AM (12 years, 3 months ago) |
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nah, idk what to tell you.
i do the same thing and i never have a grain germination issue
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cozc
Stranger
Registered: 06/14/11
Posts: 380
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Re: Rye boil times + germination [Re: k00laid]
#15551199 - 12/21/11 02:41 PM (12 years, 3 months ago) |
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Hate to do this but 3rd page bump lol
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RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure
Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 42,214
Loc: Seattle
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
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Re: Rye boil times + germination [Re: cozc]
#15551393 - 12/21/11 03:25 PM (12 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
So why is a 5 minute boil better than a longer one when using rye grains?
Also, when soaking my rye, it ALWAYS germinates. Even after just a 12 hour soak I see little tap roots trying to come out of my grains.
I boil grains ten to twenty minutes sometimes after soaking. It all depends on how busy I am at the time. Five minutes is probably long enough though.
If your grains are germinating during the soak, then you're not beginning the soak in hot enough water. Either heat it on the stove or turn up the setting on your water heater.
Also, don't bump your own thread in the future until after 24 hours has passed.
RR
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"I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
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cozc
Stranger
Registered: 06/14/11
Posts: 380
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Re: Rye boil times + germination [Re: RogerRabbit]
#15552941 - 12/21/11 07:46 PM (12 years, 3 months ago) |
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Would bringing the soak pot to a boil then setting it aside for the 24 hr soak be an option?
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the_damn
Registered: 08/26/11
Posts: 383
Loc: Hell 
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Re: Rye boil times + germination [Re: cozc]
#15554776 - 12/22/11 04:25 AM (12 years, 3 months ago) |
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I was quite excited here recently because I just found a local retailer that sells rye berries cheaply in bulk, which means that I don't have to pay extra money to have them shipped here (as I was doing before). However, after my first couple of experiences with this particular rye I noticed it did not behave the same as the stuff I was getting before. I usually would soak my rye for 24 hours and then boil it for 10 minutes before flash drying and prepping it in jars, but this new stuff didn't want to work for me after prepping it that way. I have since learned that my new rye berries want me to soak them for a bit longer (like 48 hours -ish) and also boil them a bit longer (20-30 minutes -ish) before they are ready to be used as a grow medium. So I guess the moral of the story is that your rye grain preparation technique will depend on your particular supplier of rye grain, and your learning the way that your particular rye grains like to be treated.
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I'll be damn...
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Dr.Boomstik
Late Night Shroomery Shopper
Registered: 10/11/10
Posts: 128
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Re: Rye boil times + germination [Re: the_damn]
#15554842 - 12/22/11 05:15 AM (12 years, 3 months ago) |
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^ I feel you there Damn.
I'm usually a religious soak/simmer via RR's method but I've had to throw about 5 cups worth of berries out in the last 2 weeks due to burst kernels.  There wasn't a lot mind you, but enough (more than 5) to piss me off.
I've done it that way for quite some time and I love it. However, the only things that have changed are my supplier of rye, my stove (from electric to gas), and the hot water tap temp is 140F now. I've also been using a different pot as well (cheapie tin foil pot pretty much). Everything else is the same...hot water rinse, 24 hr. soak, boil in same water as soak, etc.
I figured maybe the tap was too hot to begin with but that wasn't it. Getting a new pot may solve the problem. With a flame and instant heat it's possible the rye gets hot too fast causing burst kernels. 
So the last few jars I've made have been dry rinsed in a strainer to get dirt off, put in jars with gypsum, and 200ml water added per cup of berries. A simple 2 - 4hr soak and they came out  with just 1 burst kernel each after PC'ing. Still not as joyful to shake as RR's method but I'm happy at the moment and the ps. cyanescens mycelium seems to dig it too. We'll see in a few weeks though if I stick with it, because I'm still curious as to why they're busting on me.
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Expect poison from standing water.
The best wine is the oldest. The best water, the newest.
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the_damn
Registered: 08/26/11
Posts: 383
Loc: Hell
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Re: Rye boil times + germination [Re: Dr.Boomstik]
#15557175 - 12/22/11 03:28 PM (12 years, 3 months ago) |
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Hey Boomstik. What's with the uproar over burst kernels? I always get a few of them when I boil my rye, and to me it's just a good indicator of when the rye has finished boiling for long enough. I've never had any problem with the busted grains, so I just leave them in when I make my jars and the mycelium still colonizes them. Now, if the kernels were bursting before being boiled for long enough, then I could see a problem.
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I'll be damn...
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sof4r0ckeRs1984
Registered: 07/30/10
Posts: 1,886
Last seen: 5 years, 8 months
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Re: Rye boil times + germination [Re: cozc]
#15557627 - 12/22/11 04:52 PM (12 years, 3 months ago) |
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I heard about boiling them first, then soaking them over night, then sterilising. Sounds like a fine way to proceed.
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jim617
untrusted cultivator
Registered: 11/21/09
Posts: 1,936
Loc:
Last seen: 4 months, 19 days
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Re: Rye boil times + germination [Re: the_damn]
#15557753 - 12/22/11 05:18 PM (12 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
the_damn said:
Hey Boomstik. What's with the uproar over burst kernels? I always get a few of them when I boil my rye, and to me it's just a good indicator of when the rye has finished boiling for long enough. I've never had any problem with the busted grains, so I just leave them in when I make my jars and the mycelium still colonizes them. Now, if the kernels were bursting before being boiled for long enough, then I could see a problem.
Im with you dude, thats hows I know they are done, when a few start to burst, and I also noticed that its the bursted grains that seem to colonize the fastest.
bursted grains all the way.
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MrFunGuy: "I figured if I put a 15lb cinder block on top of the pot lid that it would cook @15 psi." []
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Dr.Boomstik
Late Night Shroomery Shopper
Registered: 10/11/10
Posts: 128
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Re: Rye boil times + germination [Re: jim617]
#15557886 - 12/22/11 05:44 PM (12 years, 3 months ago) |
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Hey Damn, it's just personal preference/OCD/being a perfectionist.haha.
It's right up there with getting a forest canopy vs. side pins, big mushrooms vs. small ones, etc. It may be the same yield but I still prefer the canopy of small fruit for obvious asthetic and potency reasons. The Devil is in the details and as we progress, we have more time/confidence to tweak/run with him so I just aim for 100% on all fronts.
Some of the rye is broken to begin with (probably from shipping or conveyer belts etc) and I don't mind a 'few' but more than 2-3 per cup bugs me. When I first started, it didn't matter to me and, you guys are right, they colonized fine. BUT after seeing experienced growers getting ZERO burst kernels and claiming starch/clumping isn't desirable - I figured why not aim high? 
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Expect poison from standing water.
The best wine is the oldest. The best water, the newest.
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