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 Noteworthy
Sophyphile
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 Dimensions are Duality   1
#15223683 - 10/14/11 05:42 AM (12 years, 6 months ago) |
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I just had an epiphany and I thought I would see what you giys think.
A dimension is a variable with instances that are related via a dualistic relationship. There may be two instances, as in a binary relationship (0/1, off/on, no/yes, out/in) and then there are continuous relationships, as in spatial dimensions (left/right, up/down, forward/back), size relations (big/small, more/less). Not to forget the time relation (before/after).
Some more complex ones include those dimensions that start at 0 and head to infinity, like dark/light. In that case you can always go brighter but you cant always go darker. A similar case is the many/few relation, through which you can always have more but you cannot always have less.
A variable which does not follow a dualistic relationship is not a dimension. For example, if you put a number on each horse in the race, there is no horse number dimension. However there are dimensions like height, weight, speed, fitness, all of which you could relate different horses via dualistic relationship (taller/shorter, heavier/lighter, slower/faster, stronger/weaker).
One might respond and say that dimensions must be spatial but we know this is not true, because time is a dimension. One might further respond that dimensions must be described in physical theory. However, all we have are theoretical models, which often disagree on exactly how many dimensions exist. The basic similarity amongst dimensional accounts is that all of the dimensions contain values which can fall along a set of values seperated via dualistic relationship.
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crkhd
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Re: Dimensions are Duality [Re: Noteworthy]
#15224445 - 10/14/11 10:49 AM (12 years, 6 months ago) |
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Strong point.
Do you know about Hilbert spaces?
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"Everything there is, and all that there is, is a Pattern of unspeakable proportion. The Pattern contains everything that is, completely fixed in succession, all the minimal particles interconnected in every way that is. Every way that is is not every conceivable way, because not everything that can be conceived is manifest in the pattern."
"THE Human, you, is a miniscule but essential part of that pattern. In it lies complete fulfillment. It will never become something it is not, but it will never need to be anything else." - Wiccan_Seeker
"If boring drudgery was the way of the universe, everything would have killed itself long ago." - Spacerific
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Noteworthy
Sophyphile
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Re: Dimensions are Duality [Re: crkhd]
#15227206 - 10/14/11 09:09 PM (12 years, 6 months ago) |
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Ive only heard about it often. I do not fully understand the significance of it but I guess it is intimately related with dimensions and how to mathematically map relationships between points which are seperated among many dimensions?
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Kickle
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Re: Dimensions are Duality [Re: Noteworthy]
#15227396 - 10/14/11 09:47 PM (12 years, 6 months ago) |
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Anything we can make a duality out of, we will. Each horse I pick can win/lose.
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Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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Noteworthy
Sophyphile
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Re: Dimensions are Duality [Re: Kickle] 1
#15227428 - 10/14/11 09:52 PM (12 years, 6 months ago) |
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yeah i guess so! not sure what you mean though
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Kickle
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Re: Dimensions are Duality [Re: Noteworthy]
#15227480 - 10/14/11 10:02 PM (12 years, 6 months ago) |
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We divide up possibilities. Duality being the simplest. There is a lot of gradation between left and right and who really knows where left starts or where right ends. But left and right is a simple and functional division created by the mind.
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Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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Noteworthy
Sophyphile
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Re: Dimensions are Duality [Re: Kickle]
#15227502 - 10/14/11 10:08 PM (12 years, 6 months ago) |
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are you sure? i think theres just left and right, and then a magnitude stating how left and how right? continuous dualities ahve magnitude, binary dualities do not. we can always abstract a binary duality to relate ANY two things
but dualities are fundamentally different to other divisions. can you think of a basic division that is not actually a combination of dualities?
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Kickle
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Re: Dimensions are Duality [Re: Noteworthy]
#15227541 - 10/14/11 10:15 PM (12 years, 6 months ago) |
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can you think of a basic division that is not actually a combination of dualities?
No that's why I think duality is the simplest division. All other divisions build on dualities. But all the same, there really is no division. There is no left and no right. That's all mental.
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Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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crkhd
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Re: Dimensions are Duality [Re: Noteworthy]
#15228237 - 10/15/11 03:19 AM (12 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Noteworthy said:
Ive only heard about it often. I do not fully understand the significance of it but I guess it is intimately related with dimensions and how to mathematically map relationships between points which are seperated among many dimensions?
The human brain can simulate entire Hilbert spaces instantaneously. When someone explains something to you, you may visualise/graph it (aural/visual/kinetically), you may try to explain it with words, you may do all sorts of things.
What is actually occuring is a simulation of a pseudofinite space where all these virtual interactions occur and are tested against prior observation (observation = supreme truth).
When others' observations disagree with yours, then both of your spaces are incomplete. When you come to an agreement after discussion you have added the necessary parameters to each others' virtual spaces to find the locus of agreement. When you agree to disagree, you have stated that both your spaces are incomplete. When you claim the other is a liar, then you have declared your space to be either incomplete or supreme truth.
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"Everything there is, and all that there is, is a Pattern of unspeakable proportion. The Pattern contains everything that is, completely fixed in succession, all the minimal particles interconnected in every way that is. Every way that is is not every conceivable way, because not everything that can be conceived is manifest in the pattern."
"THE Human, you, is a miniscule but essential part of that pattern. In it lies complete fulfillment. It will never become something it is not, but it will never need to be anything else." - Wiccan_Seeker
"If boring drudgery was the way of the universe, everything would have killed itself long ago." - Spacerific
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lolwut
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Re: Dimensions are Duality [Re: crkhd]
#15228312 - 10/15/11 04:35 AM (12 years, 6 months ago) |
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You can describe dimensions as things, which it seems you were doing by talking about height, weight, and so on. We're a thing in a 3-dimensional thing, and there could be infinite things. And within these things are dualities which can be ascribed to them. I guess?
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 johnm214
Registered: 05/31/07
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Re: Dimensions are Duality [Re: Noteworthy]
#15228346 - 10/15/11 05:14 AM (12 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Noteworthy said:
Some more complex ones include those dimensions that start at 0 and head to infinity, like dark/light. In that case you can always go brighter but you cant always go darker
This isn't actually true. Just because there is a lower bound does not mean that the magnitude of a value cannot forever decrease. There are plenty of infinite series, for example, with perpetually decreasing terms that are infinite in number and yet known have a value equal or less than the lower limit.
Likewise with light intensity: the intensity of light: As there appears to be some intensity of light in any place in the universe (especially due to the expansion of the universe), it would seem clear that the light could always decrease in intensity.
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A variable which does not follow a dualistic relationship is not a dimension. For example, if you put a number on each horse in the race, there is no horse number dimension.
why not?
What does this have to do with duality?
Is this post just: "there exists both qualitative and quantitative descriptions"?
Quote:
One might further respond that dimensions must be described in physical theory. However, all we have are theoretical models, which often disagree on exactly how many dimensions exist.
What are you referring to here? You can always make up a model of the universe with an arbitrary number of dimensions by making appropriate presumptions, but these are just conjecture. In the same way, you could imagine a world balanced on a turtle's back if you assume certain things: that doesn't really say much about the world untill there's some scientific evidence for the model.
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Noteworthy
Sophyphile
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Re: Dimensions are Duality [Re: johnm214]
#15228602 - 10/15/11 08:24 AM (12 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
This isn't actually true. Just because there is a lower bound does not mean that the magnitude of a value cannot forever decrease. There are plenty of infinite series, for example, with perpetually decreasing terms that are infinite in number and yet known have a value equal or less than the lower limit.
Likewise with light intensity: the intensity of light: As there appears to be some intensity of light in any place in the universe (especially due to the expansion of the universe), it would seem clear that the light could always decrease in intensity.
well you make an interesting point. I guess the whole quantum indeterminacy thing adds an extra element. But really you are just saying that nothing ever has the lower limit, that nothing is ever totally dark. I think however, that the more or less duality is more robust. You can really have no apples in your basket, I dont think quantum indeterminacy or uncertainty will trump that.
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why not?
What does this have to do with duality?
Is this post just: "there exists both qualitative and quantitative descriptions"?
if you disagree, just say why. Give an example, as you did above. Im not trying to dictate the truth, im proposing a model for understanding duality and dimension.
It has to do with duality because it means 'duality is required in order for a variable to be a dimension'
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What are you referring to here? You can always make up a model of the universe with an arbitrary number of dimensions by making appropriate presumptions, but these are just conjecture. In the same way, you could imagine a world balanced on a turtle's back if you assume certain things: that doesn't really say much about the world untill there's some scientific evidence for the model.
you are right, perhaps physical only refers to those dimensions that have been confirmed. What I was referring to was string theories, and Id assume that those physicists would take the fact that they are talking about 'dimensions' quite seriously. Maybe theyre just wrong though. According to my model, theyre not
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