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 xFrockx
 
Registered: 09/17/06
Posts: 10,458
Loc: Northeast
Last seen: 17 hours, 58 minutes
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 There is no true explanation for anything. 
#15103386 - 09/19/11 09:05 PM (12 years, 6 months ago) |
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And I have no fucking idea why.
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 Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: There is no true explanation for anything. [Re: xFrockx]
#15103509 - 09/19/11 09:34 PM (12 years, 6 months ago) |
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I operate with that as a given. 
I think I know why too.
We don't know everything.
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Mufungo
Coming at ya
Registered: 04/03/07
Posts: 2,743
Loc: Knowhere
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Re: There is no true explanation for anything. [Re: xFrockx]
#15103602 - 09/19/11 09:50 PM (12 years, 6 months ago) |
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If there's no true explanations for anything, does that mean there's only false explanations for anything?
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Can anything be said to be true? If not, then why/how does the adjective exist? If nothing is true, then "true" doesn't describe anything, and if it doesn't describe anything, then how can we even think about it?
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If nothing can be true, then how can anything be false? What's the point of saying something is false when everything is false?
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If nothing is true or false, then who cares that there's no true explanation for anything?
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DieCommie
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: There is no true explanation for anything. [Re: xFrockx]
#15103615 - 09/19/11 09:52 PM (12 years, 6 months ago) |
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What is the difference between a true explanation and a not true explanation? When I encounter an explanation, what do I look for to tell the difference?
(I guess that is a silly question to ask you since you deny the existence of the former. I've just never heard the qualifier of 'true' used for an explanation before.)
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NetDiver
Wandering Mindfuck
Registered: 08/24/09
Posts: 6,024
Loc: Everywhere and Nowhere
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Re: There is no true explanation for anything. [Re: xFrockx]
#15103982 - 09/19/11 11:07 PM (12 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
xFrockx said:
And I have no fucking idea why.
Yes.
Philosophy and science are descriptive, not explanatory. Explanations involve causality, which leads to either an infinite regress or a totally arbitrary beginning.
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DieCommie
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: There is no true explanation for anything. [Re: NetDiver]
#15104026 - 09/19/11 11:17 PM (12 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Explanations involve causality, which leads to either an infinite regress or a totally arbitrary beginning.
So what? Whats wrong with that? Does anybody really expect otherwise?
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NetDiver
Wandering Mindfuck
Registered: 08/24/09
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Re: There is no true explanation for anything. [Re: DieCommie]
#15104079 - 09/19/11 11:27 PM (12 years, 6 months ago) |
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I didn't say that there was anything wrong with that; only that explanations (as I define them, at least) require a definite cause to be ascribed to the effect being investigated. As every cause is supposed to be the effect of a previous cause, then there is no such thing as a definitive or ultimate cause and hence, no explanations.
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DieCommie
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: There is no true explanation for anything. [Re: NetDiver]
#15104087 - 09/19/11 11:28 PM (12 years, 6 months ago) |
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Thats like saying there are no definitions because every word is defined by other words. Something I would presume that the OP wholeheartedly agrees in. 
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crkhd
☾☼☽
Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 2,401
Loc: A human sphere enfolding ...
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Re: There is no true explanation for anything. [Re: DieCommie]
#15104129 - 09/19/11 11:36 PM (12 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
DieCommie said:
Thats like saying there are no definitions because every word is defined by other words. Something I would presume that the OP wholeheartedly agrees in.
"AAAAAH" evolved into "OW" evolved into "ouch" involved to "Oh my friggin god it's rippin my goddamn arm off call the amberlamps"
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"Everything there is, and all that there is, is a Pattern of unspeakable proportion. The Pattern contains everything that is, completely fixed in succession, all the minimal particles interconnected in every way that is. Every way that is is not every conceivable way, because not everything that can be conceived is manifest in the pattern."
"THE Human, you, is a miniscule but essential part of that pattern. In it lies complete fulfillment. It will never become something it is not, but it will never need to be anything else." - Wiccan_Seeker
"If boring drudgery was the way of the universe, everything would have killed itself long ago." - Spacerific
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NetDiver
Wandering Mindfuck
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Posts: 6,024
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Re: There is no true explanation for anything. [Re: DieCommie]
#15104206 - 09/19/11 11:53 PM (12 years, 6 months ago) |
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Yes, that's a pretty good analogy. The difference, I would say, is that there does not have to be one ultimate word which describes every other word in order for definitions to exist, whereas in order for an explanation to exist, in the truest sense, requires an ultimate cause that marks a definitive beginning of the causal chain.
Let's look at the definitions:
Quote:
de·scrip·tion
1. A spoken or written representation or account of a person, object, or event: "people who had seen him were able to give a description".
2. The action of giving such a representation or account.
Quote:
ex·pla·na·tion
1. A statement or account that makes something clear
2.A reason or justification given for an action or belief
For instance, if I ask why the sky is blue, I'm taken through the evolution of the human visual system, the development of the Earth's atmosphere, etc. all the way back to the Big Bang -- and who the hell knows what caused that? At some point, something had to have happened for no reason, or its just an infinite chain of cause and effect. Either way, when I ask "why is the sky blue?" I must conclude that it just is, and everything else is just an extended description or the event that led to me perceiving it as blue.
The first definition is fulfilled (a representation of an event, in this case, my perception of the sky as blue), and the second is not (there is no ultimate reason or justification for the fact that I am able to see certain frequencies of light and not others, it just sort of randomly happened that way).
It's important to note that I'm using "explanation" in the second sense, which is the more philosophically relevant one.
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Rahz
Alive Again
Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,336
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Re: There is no true explanation for anything. [Re: NetDiver]
#15104240 - 09/20/11 12:01 AM (12 years, 6 months ago) |
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There is no true explanation for anything, therefore we should do what seems best knowing we don't know what is best. Everyone is wingin' it.
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rahz
comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace
"Human beings are born with different capacities. If they are free, they are not equal. And if they are equal, they are not free."
~Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
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DieCommie
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: There is no true explanation for anything. [Re: NetDiver]
#15104258 - 09/20/11 12:07 AM (12 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Samurai Drifter said:
The difference, I would say, is that there does not have to be one ultimate word which describes every other word in order for definitions to exist, whereas in order for an explanation to exist, in the truest sense, requires an ultimate cause that marks a definitive beginning of the causal chain.
It looks to me like you are making this distinction by comparing 'regular' definitions to 'true' explanations. For a true definition, I think one would need an ultimate word from which all other definitions arise. In lieu of that, we have regular definitions where meaning only arises out of a sufficiently large set of circular definitions. In the same manner, regular explanations arise out of a sufficiently large set of circular explanations.
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NetDiver
Wandering Mindfuck
Registered: 08/24/09
Posts: 6,024
Loc: Everywhere and Nowhere
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Re: There is no true explanation for anything. [Re: DieCommie]
#15104355 - 09/20/11 12:31 AM (12 years, 6 months ago) |
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Sort of, but while it's necessary for definitions to be composed entirely of other words (which exist), explanations necessarily involve "reason" and "justification," which do not exist. And while there are a finite set of words that form a self-coherent system, the causal chain is either infinite or incoherent.
For instance, if I ask the question "why is the sky blue instead of red?" I will be met with the response "because it reflects X frequencies of light instead of Y frequencies." To which I could once again respond "why?" Until I'm taken all the way back to the Big Bang, which simply happened in one way rather than another.
So the "explanation" of why the sky is blue rather than red just ends up being a really, really long, detailed way of saying "it just happened that way." And that's a description.
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quinn
some kinda love
Registered: 01/02/10
Posts: 6,799
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Re: There is no true explanation for anything. [Re: NetDiver]
#15104970 - 09/20/11 06:23 AM (12 years, 6 months ago) |
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but explanations are made out of words...
when you explain something you use a jumble of words which people agree with. maybe some people will offer other words and not agree with it. and then you will need to find a combination of words which you can both agree with.
explain this moment.
it has a computer in it. on the screen is the shroomery website. your body is in it (i assume) and so on.
all these statements are 'true' in the sense that if you uttered them i would agree with those words. and you agree with those words.
but they are just words which we agree with. that is all...
they are not 'in' this moment we are explaining. the moment is there but what it is we cant really talk about...
agree? 
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dripping with fantasy
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Chaoman
Philosopher
Registered: 01/30/10
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Re: There is no true explanation for anything. [Re: quinn]
#15104978 - 09/20/11 06:26 AM (12 years, 6 months ago) |
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Something is either true or not true.
Unless you are talking about the Dao. P = Q. Q ~= P
wuh?
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: There is no true explanation for anything. [Re: Rahz]
#15104994 - 09/20/11 06:36 AM (12 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Rahz said:
There is no true explanation for anything, therefore we should do what seems best knowing we don't know what is best. Everyone is wingin' it.
This more or less.
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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.
" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.
With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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