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 RonaldFuckingPaul
Our Dear Leader
 
Registered: 10/31/07
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 How efficient are the newest solar panels? 
#14748248 - 07/10/11 09:49 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Is it a good time to get into photovoltaic systems? Or will it be decades before they are really worth it?
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 koraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,703
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I think something like 24% has been achieved in research settings, but max. 20% or so for commercial applications. But the really interesting technologies are the cheaply manufactured, flexible sheets, but that strand of technology is in its infancy at the moment. Efficiency is somewhere in the 5-10% range if I'm not mistaken, but who cares if the costs are e.g. 10 times lower than higher-efficiency panels? It's a cost/benefits thing, this is. But at present, here in Europe, the balance in most investment decisions is tipped due to some form of government funding. Otherwise it may still be worthwhile, but you're talking about a payback period of 10+ years.
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 2 months, 6 days
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Re: How efficient are the newest solar panels? [Re: koraks]
#14749990 - 07/11/11 07:28 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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> but max. 20% or so for commercial applications
For terrestrial grade silicon cells, around 15% is the maximum you are going to see. Space grade silicon gets upwards of 20% while space grade gallium arsenide you can get upwards of 32% (triple junction cells), but these are extremely expensive. Realistically, "affordable" space grade gallium arsenide solar cells are in 22% efficient range. Most commercial terrestrial solar panels operate around 8% to 12% efficient. I haven't priced things recently, but around 15 years ago (when I was working with solar technology) efficient terrestrial silicon (15%) were around $20 per watt and space grade GaAs (22.5%) were around $250 per watt.
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koraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,703
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Re: How efficient are the newest solar panels? [Re: Seuss]
#14750204 - 07/11/11 08:40 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Good call Seuss  What's your view on the printed foil type cells that are being produced since recently?
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
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Re: How efficient are the newest solar panels? [Re: koraks]
#14750244 - 07/11/11 08:57 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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> What's your view on the printed foil type cells that are being produced since recently?
Assuming you mean thin film solar cell technology, they have potential. Most thin film solar panels are in the 8% efficient range, but they are much more cost effective than typical (crystalline) solar panels and are much less fragile. There is still a lot of "pollution" costs associated with manufacturing the panels. You also still need batteries to hold the excess power and maximum power point trackers to keep the panels operating at their peak efficiency.
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Just another spore in the wind.
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koraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,703
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Re: How efficient are the newest solar panels? [Re: Seuss]
#14755138 - 07/12/11 02:52 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Seuss said:
> What's your view on the printed foil type cells that are being produced since recently?
Assuming you mean thin film solar cell technology, they have potential.
Yeah, I think we're talking about the same thing: CIGS printed on metal film, as is done by e.g. Nanosolar. They claim almost 14% efficiency for printed CIGS. No idea how rapidly this degrades though?
Yup, the environmental costs of the additional infrastructure (energy storage) and the manufacturing process worry me a bit too. Especially the latter seems to be escaping the attention of the general public, which btw is true for the entire semiconductor industry: I've never heard anyone complain about the toxic chemicals or the gigantic amounts of energy required to manufacture the processors and memory in their computers and smartphones, while that would be a relevant focal point for the green movement as well. I wonder how come that particular industry seems to be escaping the Wrath of Gore.
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 2 months, 6 days
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Re: How efficient are the newest solar panels? [Re: koraks]
#14755330 - 07/12/11 04:40 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
koraks said:
Yeah, I think we're talking about the same thing: CIGS printed on metal film, as is done by e.g. Nanosolar. They claim almost 14% efficiency for printed CIGS. No idea how rapidly this degrades though?
There are a few other companies producing similar technology. Global Solar, Ascent Solar, IBM, HelioVolt, GroupSat Solar, etc... I know CIGS technology has gotten upwards of 15% efficiency, but their commercial panels (sold to the public) are around 8% efficient. What you can do in the lab, picking the best of the best, and what you can mass produce in a cost effective manner are often very different.
Quote:
koraks said:
Yup, the environmental costs of the additional infrastructure (energy storage) and the manufacturing process worry me a bit too. Especially the latter seems to be escaping the attention of the general public, which btw is true for the entire semiconductor industry: I've never heard anyone complain about the toxic chemicals or the gigantic amounts of energy required to manufacture the processors and memory in their computers and smartphones, while that would be a relevant focal point for the green movement as well. I wonder how come that particular industry seems to be escaping the Wrath of Gore.
The problem is only going to get worse as small portable electronic devices become prevalent coupled with a throw away mentality. People bitch about Apple products not having a replaceable battery, but to be honest, Apple knows most people are going to upgrade their device to the latest greatest before the battery life expires. I know Apple is focused on the green movement... they have removed lead, mercury, pcb, bfr, arsenic, cadmium, and a lot of other nasty (difficult to recycle or dangerous to throw away) chemicals from their products. Their products are all EPEAT Gold rated and their packaging is designed to reduce waste. Of course, this all adds to the cost of the product, but people seem to be willing to spend more. I'm not sure what, if anything, other countries are doing.
Another nasty area that nobody talks about is the power costs associated with networking. CMOS technology consumes more power the faster it switches. The key to fast networking is hardware that has very fast transistors which equates to a lot of power consumption. The faster the network gear (when under load), the hotter it runs. Again, as small portable electronic devices become prevalent the network infrastructure required to support the devices is going to grow. As the infrastructure grows, so do the power requirements. More hidden costs that the public is unaware.
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Just another spore in the wind.
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moeshroom
golden student
Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 406
Loc:
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Quote:
reeferaddict69 said:
Is it a good time to get into photovoltaic systems? Or will it be decades before they are really worth it?
If you're a US taxpayer, you can get a 30% tax rebate on all domestic solar equipment. You can deduct a single large purchase across multiple years of tax liability. This rebate probably will not be extended after it expires in a couple years, and may be canceled even before that. After the incentives run out, there will be a gap before the technology improves enough that it's cheaper overall than current technology with the incentives.
Also, in certain US states there are additional incentives.
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Bodhi of Ankou
*alternate opinion blocks path*
Registered: 06/02/09
Posts: 24,778
Loc: Soviet Canukistan 
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Re: How efficient are the newest solar panels? [Re: moeshroom]
#14765890 - 07/14/11 12:37 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Researchers have developed a method in which they bond a nano film of colloidal quantum dots on the solar cell to to effectively boost the max potential of the solar arrays to 42% efficiency, compared to 30% efficiency with old methods.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_dot
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/06/110626145423.htm
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Jufin
Registered: 03/31/08
Posts: 5,116
Loc: Australia
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Re: How efficient are the newest solar panels? [Re: Seuss]
#14772142 - 07/15/11 11:31 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Seuss said:
> but max. 20% or so for commercial applications
For terrestrial grade silicon cells, around 15% is the maximum you are going to see. Space grade silicon gets upwards of 20% while space grade gallium arsenide you can get upwards of 32% (triple junction cells), but these are extremely expensive. Realistically, "affordable" space grade gallium arsenide solar cells are in 22% efficient range. Most commercial terrestrial solar panels operate around 8% to 12% efficient. I haven't priced things recently, but around 15 years ago (when I was working with solar technology) efficient terrestrial silicon (15%) were around $20 per watt and space grade GaAs (22.5%) were around $250 per watt.
The company I work for sell a 20% panel which we tell customers is the most efficient on the market.
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 2 months, 6 days
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Re: How efficient are the newest solar panels? [Re: Jufin]
#14772321 - 07/15/11 11:58 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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> The company I work for sell a 20% panel which we tell customers is the most efficient on the market.
Depending upon the type and grade, they may be the most efficient on the market within their niche. However, the last time I checked, improved triple junction (ITJ) panels at 36.9% efficiency were the best that you could buy. The cost of these panels is obnoxious; you could buy a small country for less. I know that individual solar cells in a research setting have reached higher efficiencies... but these are a far cry from a solar panel.
If the panels your company is selling are using silicon based technology, at 20%, they would be at the top of the efficiency scale (for silicon based panels). I hate marketing...
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djmako7
Antitransubstantiationalist
Registered: 06/13/06
Posts: 2,362
Loc: A shady spot under a tree
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I am a certified designer and installer.
Commercial is 14% efficiency with the best panels out right now. Pay back is 15-25 years. A normal house hold system cost between $15,000 - $45,000 USD.
Location is very important no shade on the panels during the day from sun up to sun down.
I can answer any further questions
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djmako7
Antitransubstantiationalist
Registered: 06/13/06
Posts: 2,362
Loc: A shady spot under a tree
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Re: How efficient are the newest solar panels? [Re: Seuss]
#15044792 - 09/07/11 07:56 PM (12 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Seuss said:
> The company I work for sell a 20% panel which we tell customers is the most efficient on the market.
Depending upon the type and grade, they may be the most efficient on the market within their niche. However, the last time I checked, improved triple junction (ITJ) panels at 36.9% efficiency were the best that you could buy. The cost of these panels is obnoxious; you could buy a small country for less. I know that individual solar cells in a research setting have reached higher efficiencies... but these are a far cry from a solar panel.
If the panels your company is selling are using silicon based technology, at 20%, they would be at the top of the efficiency scale (for silicon based panels). I hate marketing...
I would like to add there is efficiency loss in various systems. a 20% panel tesed for 20% means thats the optimal amount. When installed you always are a little lower than the manufacturers optimum efficiency.
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