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Offlinekorolen
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Manure quality – composted, too wet, slightly smelly?
    #14723813 - 07/06/11 01:27 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Hi all,

I have eight WBS spawn jars that have reached near-100% colonization. Ideally, they should be spawned in the next few days. I've collected enough horse manure to act as substrate for the spawn from some local people, but I have some concerns as to its quality.

The manure was composted in a covered pile about 5ftx8ft for about eight months. I'd assume that the pile was probably not stirred during that time. The climate where I live is a rainy one, and in addition it rained a little the night before I collected the manure, and so the pile was quite wet. It contains a good number of small worms and various other bugs.

I have some pictures of the manure, but the lighting is way off. In real life, it is a very dark color, that of earthy soil, with a slightly brownish hue.



The primary concern I have is wetness. It is well beyond field capacity. Squeezing it gently drips easily, and squeezing it hard releases quite a bit of water as the manure compresses, enough to run out between my fingers and down the outside of my hand.

The weather is supposed to be decently hot for the next few days, with tomorrow being particularly cloudless and sunny. I was thinking I could leave the manure out spread thinly on a tarp to dry out.

I also understand that leeching manure can help remove ammonia if it's wet due to being fresh, but my manure is just wet from getting rained on. Would this be a good alternative?

A second concern I have is smell. The whole bag full of manure smells like dirt, but if I take a large nugget and break it open, the inside is a lighter color with a slightly slimier consistency that smells faintly like what I assume fresh manure smells like. It's not very noticeable, but I see people stressing that proper manure should smell exactly like dirt, and so I thought I would bring it up. I have more manure than I need, and so I was thinking I could selectively discard the larger lumps that aren't as broken down on the inside.

If the quality of the manure isn't good and these methods won't help it significantly, I can try to find some field-aged manure. Besides the night two days ago that it rained a little before I collected my manure, it's been decently sunny for about five days. If I collected tomorrow evening, as that particularly sunny day begins to come to a close, I think I could find some pretty dry field-aged manure.

If calling up a bunch of people who own horses would increase my ultimate yields by more that about 15% of where would be with my current manure, I would say that it would be worth it to me. The other consideration I have is time: if I would be able to enjoy the literal fruits of my labor more than around three days earlier, once again I would want to pursue field-aged.

What do you think of my manure? Is it good enough as is, should I try to fix it up, or is it bad enough that it would be worth the time to run out and try to find field-aged?


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6 qt. WBS -> 16 qt. hpoo sub -> monotub

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InvisibleVitalux
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Re: Manure quality – composted, too wet, slightly smelly? [Re: korolen]
    #14724729 - 07/06/11 09:01 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

In my humble opinion, the product you have is fine.

I spent quite a few months getting to understand how to prepare hpoo.
At first, my situation was similar to  yours and I tried to use the hpoo before I fully dried it.

I found I was not having very good success and was having to toss a lot of substrate bags as well as bins.

In the end, I ended up taking some tarps and spreading the hpoo out for a few days ( during sunny days) and allowing the hpoo to fully dry.
During this time I also mixed a few handful's of diatomacious earth in the hpoo to help kill off any small bugs, flies etc, that would be living in it.

It made a huge difference, and I also noticed a significant reduction in the amount of bugs after pasteurization. It can be a pain in the ass during fruiting if you have a lot of flies hatching out of the hpoo.

I found this tek for pasturization on these message boards
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/6972036#6972036

It simply works, and works well.


The problem I found early on with using wet hpoo is that it just seemed to either contaminate fast, and failed to really spawn well. I am not sure if having excessive wet hpoo makes it harder to pasteurize or something...I just found that until I had that stuff relatively dry like peat moss, I just was not getting much success compared to when it was dry.

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Offlinekorolen
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Re: Manure quality – composted, too wet, slightly smelly? [Re: Vitalux]
    #14725888 - 07/06/11 01:17 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Glad to head at least one vote for "just go for it."

I'm looking up diatomaceous earth now. I never really looked much into it, as I wanted to keep things simple and it was optional, but if it would help with my wet poo (and I do have a fair number of bugs) then it might be worth it. Amazon sells it for $15 including one-day shipping, and there's a chance I might be able to pick it up at a local Ace.

What do you think about leeching? I'm happy to run out and spread my poo out on a tarp,  but I'm guessing that if I were to leech, I would probably want to do it beforehand.

Any other opinions on the matter?


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6 qt. WBS -> 16 qt. hpoo sub -> monotub

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OfflineRogueTrippeR
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Re: Manure quality – composted, too wet, slightly smelly? [Re: korolen]
    #14725985 - 07/06/11 01:29 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I have not worked with Hpoo but I would say to dry it on the tarp.  It seems it would help greatly in breaking up the poo before mixing any other dry ingredients then bring to field capacity.

Let us know how it goes.


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Offlinesteelmonkey
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Re: Manure quality – composted, too wet, slightly smelly? [Re: korolen]
    #14726008 - 07/06/11 01:33 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Your horse manure sounds fine it should have a earthy hay smell.Moisture content only matters when its prepared to be spawned to,if your getting contamination then its due to either inproper pasyeurization methods or the manure is simply too fresh


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Offlinekorolen
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Re: Manure quality – composted, too wet, slightly smelly? [Re: steelmonkey]
    #14726035 - 07/06/11 01:39 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Alright, sounds like I should go ahead with the manure I have.

I called my local Lowe's, and they have a nice 4lb bag of diatomaceous earth. I think I'll run down and pick some up, mix it in, and then spread my manure out in the sun. Or should I mix in the diatomaceous earth after the poo has dried?

Also, nobody has mentioned anything about leeching. Sounds like I should skip it?


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6 qt. WBS -> 16 qt. hpoo sub -> monotub

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Offlinesteelmonkey
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Re: Manure quality – composted, too wet, slightly smelly? [Re: korolen]
    #14726170 - 07/06/11 01:56 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Also I wouldn't bother with the diatomaceous earth personally,a few bugs won't harm your horse manure if properly pasteurized...just my opinion.As for you leaching if your horse manure has no ammonia smell your good to go


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Offlinekorolen
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Re: Manure quality – composted, too wet, slightly smelly? [Re: steelmonkey]
    #14726208 - 07/06/11 02:02 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

steelmonkey said:
Also I wouldn't bother with the diatomaceous earth personally,a few bugs won't harm your horse manure if properly pasteurized...just my opinion.As for you leaching if your horse manure has no ammonia smell your good to go



The smell I noticed definitely doesn't smell like the container full of ammonia in my cleaning closet, so I guess I'm good.

With regard to the diatomaceous earth, I figured that in addition to the bug-killing action, it also holds quite a bit of water, much like vermiculite. I'm going with an uncased monotub, so I was thinking anything that helps keep up relative humidity and provides a moisture reservoir is a good thing. Anyone else think the diatomaceous earth is unnecessary?


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6 qt. WBS -> 16 qt. hpoo sub -> monotub

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Offlinesteelmonkey
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Re: Manure quality – composted, too wet, slightly smelly? [Re: korolen]
    #14726253 - 07/06/11 02:10 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

It sounds ok you would know it if it wasn't it would have a used litterbox smell.Go ahead and try the diatomaceous earth and see Ive never used it,then again I sometimes don't use any verm in my horse manure either


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Offlinekorolen
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Re: Manure quality – composted, too wet, slightly smelly? [Re: korolen]
    #14727079 - 07/06/11 04:47 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

The diatomaceous earth that Lowe's sells is 15% "other ingredients," which made me a bit hesitant to buy it due to the possibility that it contains some unadvertised fungicide or something, especially since it's ten bucks and I wasn't even sure if I was going to use it in the first place. Has anyone else used the "garden safe" brand, or some other brand that isn't 100% silicon dioxide? Or is this totally normal? Here's a link to the packaging:

http://www.gardensafe.com/Products-and-Solutions/Insecticide/Crawling-Insect-Killer-Containing-Diatomaceous-Earth.aspx

In other news, my manure is now spread out thinly on a plastic sheet to bake in the sun. Hopefully it will be looking pretty dry soon. Anyone have a suggestion for the level of dryness I should go for? I was thinking dry enough to break apart and crumble like RR does in the mushroom videos.


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6 qt. WBS -> 16 qt. hpoo sub -> monotub

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Offlinesteelmonkey
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Re: Manure quality – composted, too wet, slightly smelly? [Re: korolen]
    #14727148 - 07/06/11 04:56 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Honestly I wouldn't even dry it at all the whole purpose of drying it is to leach off any ammonia present and I really don't think there is any after 8 months.How are you planning on pasteurizing it?


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InvisibleVitalux
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Re: Manure quality – composted, too wet, slightly smelly? [Re: korolen]
    #14727429 - 07/06/11 05:40 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I buy my diatomacious earth for about $18 for a 50 lb bag of food grade.
I get it from a farm supply store which is close to where I live.

All I can tell you, is that have had great success with hpoo, and have followed RR teks and advice.

Prior to using the diatomacious earth, I found that I was getting a lot of bugs flying around in my grow room.
I still get some, due to the diatomacios not working to kill bugs while it is wet and moist, however, when I dry the hpoo out really well, it allows the diatomacious earth time, and the opportunity to do its magic.

I also find that when the hpoo is well sun dried, its easy to store in garbage pales and is not full of critters. I store several containers in my garage between cycles.

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Offlinekorolen
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Re: Manure quality – composted, too wet, slightly smelly? [Re: Vitalux]
    #14739603 - 07/09/11 04:25 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

The manure had dried out significantly after having been cooked by the sun for an evening, and I brought it back in and have been preparing it for spawning. My substrate is 17% fine verm, 6% gypsum, and 77% horse manure. I spent about an hour massaging the manure and breaking up the clumps until the biggest clumps were about a centimeter across, and then started to bring it to field capacity.

As the manure became wet again, however, it also became muddy. When I try to do a squeeze test, the substrate simply oozes out of my fist instead of dripping. I can sometimes get a drip or two, but only from water that runs through my fingers and off the back of my hand, not out of the bottom of the handful of substrate like when RR does it in the videos. The substrate makes a mild muddy squishing noise when compressed in the tub, although not as much as straight mud might.


Video of squeeze test: http://cl.ly/8IVC

I was thinking I could add straw or coco coir or something to make it more fibrous and airy as well as more compatible with the squeeze test. I could also run out and try to find better field-aged manure. But really, my grain jars should have been spawned a day or two ago already, so I need to either improve the substrate quick or just call it good and spawn.

What do you guys think? Is the muddiness harmful? Worth it to try and fix it or start over?


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6 qt. WBS -> 16 qt. hpoo sub -> monotub

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Offlinesteelmonkey
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Re: Manure quality – composted, too wet, slightly smelly? [Re: korolen]
    #14739982 - 07/09/11 08:06 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

If it went muddy on you then it composted you shouls see bits of straw/hay/ and it should crumble easily when squeezed dry

add coir or more verm,I just happened to be doing a batch of horse manure so I took a quick pic



right after the squeeze test


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Offlinekorolen
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Re: Manure quality – composted, too wet, slightly smelly? [Re: steelmonkey]
    #14741387 - 07/09/11 03:08 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Yeah, my manure definitely doesn't look like what you've got there, or really any other picture or video I've seen of manure, for that matter. What I really don't want is for the substrate to be so compact and airless that the mycelium takes forever to colonize – getting my mushrooms soon is important to me.

At the moment, I don't have any coir, straw, or field-aged manure, so if I wanted to use any of them, I'll have to go out and find some. According to their websites, Lowe's, Home Depot, and Ace all don't have coco coir, although I could call and ask, as they sometimes don't list things they do actually have. There's a craigslist listing nearby for hay, although it doesn't specify what type. And I could of course run out and grab some nice field-aged manure that probably wouldn't have this muddiness problem in the first place, but I'd have to ask around until I find someone who doesn't mind me harvesting their pastures. I have enough vermiculite and gypsum, though, that I could whip up some new manure decently quickly once I have it.

I really do want to get spawned ASAP, though, as my jars have been at 100% for 3-4 days now. How bad is my muddy manure? How bad is leaving my jars at 100%? If you think I should go ahead with the manure I have right now, what do you think about the moisture content – too wet even though it won't drip or only muddy due to the manure and actually not wet enough? If you think I shouldn't, what path would you recommend?

Thanks for all your help, guys. Really looking forward to getting this shit in my monotub and being able to neglect it!


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6 qt. WBS -> 16 qt. hpoo sub -> monotub

Edited by korolen (07/09/11 03:11 PM)

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Offlinesteelmonkey
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Re: Manure quality – composted, too wet, slightly smelly? [Re: korolen]
    #14741528 - 07/09/11 03:45 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Just about any pet store will have coir,its usually in the reptile section 4.99 for a 8L block


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OfflineRogueTrippeR
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Re: Manure quality – composted, too wet, slightly smelly? [Re: korolen]
    #14741557 - 07/09/11 03:49 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

It sounds like your poo is already composted?  I think since you don't already have a connection for poo and you are in a hurry, then get to lowes or HD and PU some coir.  They probably have it.


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Offlinekorolen
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Re: Manure quality – composted, too wet, slightly smelly? [Re: RogueTrippeR]
    #14741602 - 07/09/11 03:58 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

RogueTrippeR said:
It sounds like your poo is already composted?  I think since you don't already have a connection for poo and you are in a hurry, then get to lowes or HD and PU some coir.  They probably have it.



Yes, my manure has been composted for 8 months, which has been the main source of problems in this thread. Will coir really help the consistency a lot? Diluting the nutrition-ideal horse manure with coir or straw isn't something I'm too keen on, so if it's not going to help colonization times significantly I'm not sure it would be worth it. I may be wrong, but my impression was that I'd be able to improve the substrate more with an equal amount of straw instead of coir, and I should be able to pick up straw equally quickly (assuming the guy I found on craigslist picks up his phone and is available).


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6 qt. WBS -> 16 qt. hpoo sub -> monotub

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Offlinesteelmonkey
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Re: Manure quality – composted, too wet, slightly smelly? [Re: korolen]
    #14741642 - 07/09/11 04:09 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I use a horse manure/coir mix just to give the myc a bit of diversity,coir is not far behind horse manure at all in nutrients

The coir will add a bit of loft aswell as nutes plus don't forget your verm you might have to add a bit more than usual just to get a light fluffy sub


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