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RoastedPete
Noun
Registered: 12/15/10
Posts: 905
Loc: The Candy Kingdom
Last seen: 3 years, 6 months
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Blending Brown Rice for a coarser substrate...
#14710929 - 07/03/11 12:56 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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I need a coarser substrate for my PFjars. The vermiculite I use is very fine, and when mixed with the BRF, I get a product that looks and feels like wet sand.
Though a finer substrate is desirable, I think what I am using is too fine.
My plan is to take a whole brown rice and throw it into a coffee grinder, and use the ground up bits of rice in place of the flour.
Would the ground rice work as well as the rice flower?
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johnnyjae
The guy....
Registered: 08/11/10
Posts: 163
Last seen: 2 months, 1 day
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Re: Blending Brown Rice for a coarser substrate... [Re: RoastedPete]
#14710987 - 07/03/11 01:10 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Yes, brown rice grounded up is brf aka brown rice flour...
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mathias
Ersatz Haderach
Registered: 05/01/10
Posts: 561
Last seen: 12 years, 4 months
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Re: Blending Brown Rice for a coarser substrate... [Re: johnnyjae]
#14711200 - 07/03/11 02:00 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Hmm, I am seeing hydration and complete colonization issues with that plan... Stick to BRF, and get some coarse vermiculite.
I've used both coarse and fine verm, and seen little to no difference. The fine verm jars I've done were a little more touchy to water-content (too dry/too wet in a heartbeat) as opposed to the coarse verm ones that seemed more stable.
On the whole, I've seen no real difference in colonization or fruiting.
Obsess over something else....
Like trich.
If I could remove just ONE thing from the planet, it would be fucking trich. I am sure it fills an important role in the ecosystem, but FOR FUCK'S SAKE, LEAVE MY GROWS ALONE!
I digress. Sumimasen.
-------------------- intlslacker : "Why is it I always have the feeling that if RR weren't around it'd be like there were toddlers running around, bumping into walls and eating poisonous mushrooms?"
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kdmmontana
Registered: 11/09/10
Posts: 1,114
Last seen: 11 years, 9 months
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Re: Blending Brown Rice for a coarser substrate... [Re: RoastedPete]
#14711466 - 07/03/11 03:03 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
RoastedPete said: I need a coarser substrate for my PFjars. The vermiculite I use is very fine, and when mixed with the BRF, I get a product that looks and feels like wet sand.
Though a finer substrate is desirable, I think what I am using is too fine.
My plan is to take a whole brown rice and throw it into a coffee grinder, and use the ground up bits of rice in place of the flour.
Would the ground rice work as well as the rice flower?
IF you want coarser substrate, just buy coarse Verm.
I want finer substrate so I beat my Verm up in a mixer before...works wonders.
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Smirnoff
Registered: 01/10/11
Posts: 265
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 5 years, 1 month
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Re: Blending Brown Rice for a coarser substrate... [Re: mathias]
#14711480 - 07/03/11 03:07 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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I've always made my cakes with coarse verm and ground up brown rice (in a coffee grinder) and it works very well..
Quote:
mathias said: Obsess over something else....
Like trich.
If I could remove just ONE thing from the planet, it would be fucking trich. I am sure it fills an important role in the ecosystem, but FOR FUCK'S SAKE, LEAVE MY GROWS ALONE!
YEAH! THAT!
-------------------- We found the mushroom forest, Let's meet under the cap! Ethnobotany + Mycology = Ethnomycology
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Chez man
Mycofan
Registered: 09/03/10
Posts: 741
Loc: Midwest
Last seen: 4 years, 8 months
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Re: Blending Brown Rice for a coarser substrate... [Re: Smirnoff]
#14711542 - 07/03/11 03:28 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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There should be no problem using ground up brown rice......I do it all the time with great results.
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kdmmontana
Registered: 11/09/10
Posts: 1,114
Last seen: 11 years, 9 months
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Re: Blending Brown Rice for a coarser substrate... [Re: Chez man]
#14711609 - 07/03/11 03:50 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Chez man said: There should be no problem using ground up brown rice......I do it all the time with great results.
Id be against it; its way better to use coarser Verm. The rice is the food source for the mycelium and I think its best served flower style. Why not just use coarser Verm? Thought that was standard man:P
Well whatever floats your boat I guess:)
As for me, the coffee grinder makes my flour all day long:)
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Chez man
Mycofan
Registered: 09/03/10
Posts: 741
Loc: Midwest
Last seen: 4 years, 8 months
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Re: Blending Brown Rice for a coarser substrate... [Re: kdmmontana]
#14712021 - 07/03/11 05:31 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
kdmmontana said:
Quote:
Chez man said: There should be no problem using ground up brown rice......I do it all the time with great results.
Id be against it; its way better to use coarser Verm. The rice is the food source for the mycelium and I think its best served flower style. Why not just use coarser Verm? Thought that was standard man:P
Well whatever floats your boat I guess:)
As for me, the coffee grinder makes my flour all day long:)
Well you can be against it, but it works absolutely fine, I would even go so far as to say it works better.
BTW, if your coffee grinder is making your "flour", then we're talking about the same thing (ground up brown rice=BRF).....what did you think I meant?
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veda_sticks
Cultivator
Registered: 07/29/07
Posts: 14,191
Loc: UK
Last seen: 4 years, 3 months
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Re: Blending Brown Rice for a coarser substrate... [Re: Chez man]
#14712070 - 07/03/11 05:45 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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ground up brown rice works fine. I used to make up BRF using a food blender. I could get it into a nice fine powder, and just filter out the larger peices and put them back in the blender for the next batch.
You will have to adjust water content depending on the grade of verm you use. Personaly i always use less water than stated in the tek, and add more if its too dry.
personaly i think that very fine verm wouldnt be too good. Small peices of verm give a nice structure for mycelium to grow through. The finer the verm, the more compact the substrate would be making it harder for mycelium to colinise.
So the best option would be to source verm elsewhere.
-------------------- PF TEK - writeup by EvilMushroom666 Lets Grow Mushrooms - RogerRabbit & RoadKills website with sample videos plus the full PF TEK video series. Alot of great information - BUY THE DVD Cakes can and will pin! - So you think cakes suck for pins. Your wrong Franks Simple Coir/Verm Tek Franks Proper Pasturisation Tek Franks Spawning To Bulk - Monotub Professor Pinheads RTV Injection Port Tek Foo Mans No Soak WBS Prep Tek
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Smirnoff
Registered: 01/10/11
Posts: 265
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 5 years, 1 month
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Re: Blending Brown Rice for a coarser substrate... [Re: veda_sticks]
#14712174 - 07/03/11 06:14 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
veda_sticks said: You will have to adjust water content depending on the grade of verm you use. Personally i always use less water than stated in the tek, and add more if its too dry.
So do I!!! It's the best advice for a begginer... Use less water at first and you can always add some later if it's too dry. Pouring water in your mix is alot easier than trying to take some off by squeezing some out a handfull at a time...
-------------------- We found the mushroom forest, Let's meet under the cap! Ethnobotany + Mycology = Ethnomycology
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RoastedPete
Noun
Registered: 12/15/10
Posts: 905
Loc: The Candy Kingdom
Last seen: 3 years, 6 months
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Re: Blending Brown Rice for a coarser substrate... [Re: veda_sticks]
#14714699 - 07/04/11 08:46 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
veda_sticks said:
ground up brown rice works fine. I used to make up BRF using a food blender. I could get it into a nice fine powder, and just filter out the larger peices and put them back in the blender for the next batch.
You will have to adjust water content depending on the grade of verm you use. Personaly i always use less water than stated in the tek, and add more if its too dry.
personaly i think that very fine verm wouldnt be too good. Small peices of verm give a nice structure for mycelium to grow through. The finer the verm, the more compact the substrate would be making it harder for mycelium to colinise.
So the best option would be to source verm elsewhere.
I would loved to get my hands on some coarser vermiculite, but I can not get my hands on any at the moment. Only one store in my town carries vermiculite and it comes in two bags: one is a smaller, finer grade vermiculite and costs 10 dollars. The other is a comically massive bag, with medium grade chunks for 40 dollars...I am cheap, but once my current bag is gone, I will get my mule and cart to carry the bigger bag out of the store for me.
The hopes are that the ground rice will help to loosen the substrate up a little bit, in place of the larger verm chunks.
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kdmmontana
Registered: 11/09/10
Posts: 1,114
Last seen: 11 years, 9 months
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Re: Blending Brown Rice for a coarser substrate... [Re: RoastedPete]
#14714797 - 07/04/11 09:21 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Could you please answer my question; why would you want a coarser substrate in the first place? Why?
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RoastedPete
Noun
Registered: 12/15/10
Posts: 905
Loc: The Candy Kingdom
Last seen: 3 years, 6 months
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Re: Blending Brown Rice for a coarser substrate... [Re: kdmmontana]
#14714843 - 07/04/11 09:37 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
kdmmontana said: Could you please answer my question; why would you want a coarser substrate in the first place? Why?
I am thinking it will help a little bit in the colonization and consolidation process. A coarser substrate means it will be a looser substrate, and a looser substrate could be beneficial for better colonization.
Seeing as I do not have a ready supply of coarser vermiculite (I shit you not, the stuff I am using is pretty much just brown powder), I am making due with what I have--which is brown rice and a coffee grinder. If this helps fluff up my substrate, I will be happy.
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HorizonSpawn
Gettin' my grow on :)
Registered: 05/14/11
Posts: 1,739
Loc: Myco-Tek.org
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Re: Blending Brown Rice for a coarser substrate... [Re: kdmmontana]
#14714847 - 07/04/11 09:38 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
kdmmontana said: Could you please answer my question; why would you want a coarser substrate in the first place? Why?
My "outta the blue" guess is that he is not using 1/2 pint widemouth jars and is having an issue with stalling do to compaction of substrate...
What seems to be a good method is to add the vermiculite and H2O together and mix very very well. Once the verm is completely saturated with H2O, dump out any excess standing water. Now slowly sprinkle the flour onto the soaked verm as you mix with your other hand.
Cheers
-------------------- Please assume any and all prints exchanged are "WILD" in nature; and thus, should NOT be considered ASEPTIC... NOTE: Please excuse my brevity, as it is a bitch 'n' a half and slow as hell to type on this here phone
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RoastedPete
Noun
Registered: 12/15/10
Posts: 905
Loc: The Candy Kingdom
Last seen: 3 years, 6 months
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Re: Blending Brown Rice for a coarser substrate... [Re: HorizonSpawn]
#14714886 - 07/04/11 09:52 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
HorizonSpawn said:
Quote:
kdmmontana said: Could you please answer my question; why would you want a coarser substrate in the first place? Why?
My "outta the blue" guess is that he is not using 1/2 pint widemouth jars and is having an issue with stalling do to compaction of substrate...
What seems to be a good method is to add the vermiculite and H2O together and mix very very well. Once the verm is completely saturated with H2O, dump out any excess standing water. Now slowly sprinkle the flour onto the soaked verm as you mix with your other hand.
Cheers
I use widemouthed jars and follow RR's "Lets grow mushrooms" video to the T...
The issue I am having really stems from my last irritation with my last project. I had 9 jars looking like they were fully colonized with in a few weeks, let them sit for another, birthed them, threw them in the FC, and after a week and a half of no growth, suddenly the thing was covered in a mass of mutant blobs...This isn't the first time, or strain this has happened with. It was agreed upon that it might be a consolidation issue.
My conclusion is that it might be an issue with the substrate, so I am now toying with it as best I can. I am preparing a new batch of jars, and they will be shot up as ASAP. Hopefully there will be a difference.
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HorizonSpawn
Gettin' my grow on :)
Registered: 05/14/11
Posts: 1,739
Loc: Myco-Tek.org
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Re: Blending Brown Rice for a coarser substrate... [Re: RoastedPete]
#14715025 - 07/04/11 10:25 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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I would be asking the same questions you are, in that case
I used fresh ground 5-grain chicken scratch in half; and fresh ground rye berries in the other half... I have a flour mill
Maybe try a 50/50 mix of flour and "gritty" flour together?
By the way; The cakes that started to pin in the jars started to fruit immediately after their placement into the SGFC. The single cake with no pins took days longer Just food for thought from a noob.
BTW: the 5-grain seems to have colonized and fruited better (thus far).
-------------------- Please assume any and all prints exchanged are "WILD" in nature; and thus, should NOT be considered ASEPTIC... NOTE: Please excuse my brevity, as it is a bitch 'n' a half and slow as hell to type on this here phone
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kdmmontana
Registered: 11/09/10
Posts: 1,114
Last seen: 11 years, 9 months
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Re: Blending Brown Rice for a coarser substrate... [Re: HorizonSpawn]
#14715085 - 07/04/11 10:45 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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If anyone needs coarser substrate, use the Verm as your "coarser". Dont go off the trail and start fucking around with your BRF as it will cause clogs in your jars.
RoastedPete, your mutant blobs occur all the time and it has nothing to do with the substrate at all.
"It was agreed upon that it might be a consolidation issue." You birthed to early.
"use widemouthed jars and follow RR's "Lets grow mushrooms" video to the T..." Not if you decide fuck around with the BRF. Flour it shall be.
Most stalls, including mine are caused by air/water issues. I still hold my water under the mill that it is the substrate thats the main culprit in stalling issues, most likely not in fruiting.
My point is if you are not sure about what causes your problems and how to solve them, do not assume the solution is a coarser substrate. Ive grown the best batch ever with sand grade Verm and regular flour grade BRF. Ive never had those problems and there are million other causes for fruiting issues. Ive had mutants as well, still my cakes fruited just fine and they were even uncased.
Kudos to have your own flour mill, that is cool!
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Chez man
Mycofan
Registered: 09/03/10
Posts: 741
Loc: Midwest
Last seen: 4 years, 8 months
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Re: Blending Brown Rice for a coarser substrate... [Re: kdmmontana]
#14719674 - 07/05/11 09:42 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Yeah I doubt mutants are a substrate issue.....most likely its genetics.
It's pretty common to get mutants from certain strains on your first flush.
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anonjon
Partially Right
Registered: 11/03/08
Posts: 6,322
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Re: Blending Brown Rice for a coarser substrate... [Re: Chez man]
#14719748 - 07/05/11 10:12 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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I've always used the coarser setting on the coffee grinder and gotten what I thought were pretty typical results.
I don't think the coarseness of the rice particles matters too much. And fine verm or medium verm work fine for cakes giving comparable results.
I'm having a hard time imagining where this "too fine of verm" is coming from. It's like verm dust or something? What's the product intended for?
Lastly, if you try using coarse verm for cakes, make sure you use fine verm for the top filter layer. I tried coarse and they almost all contaminated up top.
-------------------- The above post is fictional, hypothetical, or downright nonsensical.
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kdmmontana
Registered: 11/09/10
Posts: 1,114
Last seen: 11 years, 9 months
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Re: Blending Brown Rice for a coarser substrate... [Re: anonjon]
#14719849 - 07/05/11 10:40 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
anonjon said: I've always used the coarser setting on the coffee grinder and gotten what I thought were pretty typical results.
I don't think the coarseness of the rice particles matters too much. And fine verm or medium verm work fine for cakes giving comparable results.
I'm having a hard time imagining where this "too fine of verm" is coming from. It's like verm dust or something? What's the product intended for?
Lastly, if you try using coarse verm for cakes, make sure you use fine verm for the top filter layer. I tried coarse and they almost all contaminated up top.
Wonderful Anonjon, a good reply. I agree fully with that!
Love from KD:)
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