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OfflineAtomsk
King of the Space Pirates


Registered: 02/28/11
Posts: 34
Last seen: 12 years, 10 months
Socialist Policemen
    #14068190 - 03/04/11 08:35 PM (13 years, 28 days ago)

A lot of people are opposed to socialized medicine. Yet almost none of them are opposed to socialized defense.

Lets say a man with a gun is attacking you. You dial 911 and the police come just in time to subdue the attacker. All of this, from the 911 operators paycheck to the policeman's gun is paid for by American tax payers.

Now lets imagine that the police didnt arrive quite so quickly. They still save you, but youre injured. An ambulance takes you to the hospital where the Doctors patch you up but, this time you can are charged $154,000(the average cost of a firearms injury).

The doctor and the policeman are both doing the same thing, they are both saving your life. So why are you ok with paying for one and not the other?

Why is there no movement to remove socialized defense? Why is no one asking for the free market to decide who gets protection and who gets shot? What is the difference between what a doctor does and what a policeman does and why are you ok with paying for one and not the other?

tl;dr

If you cant afford personal body guards then I guess you should just learn how to deal with it.

Edited by Atomsk (03/04/11 08:39 PM)

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OfflineAtomsk
King of the Space Pirates


Registered: 02/28/11
Posts: 34
Last seen: 12 years, 10 months
Re: Socialist Policemen [Re: Atomsk]
    #14068205 - 03/04/11 08:39 PM (13 years, 28 days ago)

Source on gunshot statistic: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9183471

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OfflineScreaming Eagle
American Patriot


Registered: 03/03/11
Posts: 54
Last seen: 13 years, 5 days
Re: Socialist Policemen [Re: Atomsk]
    #14068215 - 03/04/11 08:43 PM (13 years, 28 days ago)

We wouldn't need all these policemen if the commies would STOP trying to take OUR guns.  Back in the wild west days, they didn't need large police forces to patrol larger towns because people had the FREEDOM to take care of their problems themselves.

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OfflineScavengerType
Male User Gallery

Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 5,784
Loc: The North
Last seen: 10 years, 5 months
Re: Socialist Policemen [Re: Screaming Eagle]
    #14068928 - 03/04/11 11:13 PM (13 years, 28 days ago)

It's my understanding that every town had a sheriff which was financed by the town and gun crime was rampant in those days in fact I think that gun-crime is the most famous thing about the time other than Saloons, both of which often seem to be associated.


--------------------
"Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?"
"The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything."
- Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now.
Conquer's Club

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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: Socialist Policemen [Re: Atomsk]
    #14068937 - 03/04/11 11:14 PM (13 years, 28 days ago)

Quote:

Lets say a man with a gun is attacking you. You dial 911 and the police come just in time to subdue the attacker. All of this, from the 911 operators paycheck to the policeman's gun is paid for by American tax payers.




lol, wut?  Thats not how it works.  The cops come afterwards with a body bag for the loser and take a report and do an investigation.

'just in time to subdue the attacker' - thats real rich dude!

Seriously though, we really should spend alot less money on cops.  Its very much about staying competitive and high tax burdens stifle our ability to compete.  It would be nice to have it all, but it just doesn't work that way - there is the rest of the world out there.  I would be down to divert money from the police to subsidized health care.  :thumbup:  Health care saves lives, the police destroy them.

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OfflineScreaming Eagle
American Patriot


Registered: 03/03/11
Posts: 54
Last seen: 13 years, 5 days
Re: Socialist Policemen [Re: ScavengerType]
    #14069237 - 03/05/11 12:44 AM (13 years, 28 days ago)

Quote:

ScavengerType said:
It's my understanding that every town had a sheriff which was financed by the town and gun crime was rampant in those days in fact I think that gun-crime is the most famous thing about the time other than Saloons, both of which often seem to be associated.




If by gun-crime you mean people using guns to defend their property and families then sure, gun-crime was a lot more rampant.  But I hope a lot of people don't consider defending your family and property with a gun a gun crime.

Besides, if potential criminals knew you were more than willing and capable to shoot them if they tried to steal from you or hunt you down if you do something else illegal, wouldn't that be a major factor in turning you away from doing said crime?  I'd hope it'd be a lot more effective than calling 9-1-1 and then curling up in the fetal position when you hear someone breaking into your house.

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OfflineScreaming Eagle
American Patriot


Registered: 03/03/11
Posts: 54
Last seen: 13 years, 5 days
Re: Socialist Policemen [Re: DieCommie]
    #14069241 - 03/05/11 12:45 AM (13 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
Seriously though, we really should spend alot less money on cops.  Its very much about staying competitive and high tax burdens stifle our ability to compete.  It would be nice to have it all, but it just doesn't work that way - there is the rest of the world out there.  I would be down to divert money from the police to subsidized health care.  :thumbup:  Health care saves lives, the police destroy them.





EXACTLY.

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OfflineScavengerType
Male User Gallery

Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 5,784
Loc: The North
Last seen: 10 years, 5 months
Re: Socialist Policemen [Re: Screaming Eagle]
    #14069265 - 03/05/11 12:54 AM (13 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

Screaming Eagle said:
Quote:

ScavengerType said:
It's my understanding that every town had a sheriff which was financed by the town and gun crime was rampant in those days in fact I think that gun-crime is the most famous thing about the time other than Saloons, both of which often seem to be associated.




If by gun-crime you mean people using guns to defend their property and families then sure, gun-crime was a lot more rampant.  But I hope a lot of people don't consider defending your family and property with a gun a gun crime.

Besides, if potential criminals knew you were more than willing and capable to shoot them if they tried to steal from you or hunt you down if you do something else illegal, wouldn't that be a major factor in turning you away from doing said crime?  I'd hope it'd be a lot more effective than calling 9-1-1 and then curling up in the fetal position when you hear someone breaking into your house.




Right only the good guys used guns and won. :rolleyes:
I think your drawing too much from movies for your concept of history.


--------------------
"Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?"
"The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything."
- Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now.
Conquer's Club

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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
 User Gallery

Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: Socialist Policemen [Re: Atomsk]
    #14069649 - 03/05/11 05:32 AM (13 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

Atomsk said:
You dial 911 and the police come just in time to subdue the attacker.




:rofl2:


"When seconds count, the police are only minutes away"


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
 User Gallery

Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
Re: Socialist Policemen [Re: Atomsk]
    #14069781 - 03/05/11 07:03 AM (13 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

Atomsk said:
Lets say a man with a gun is attacking you. You dial 911 and the police come just in time to subdue the attacker.




can we use a more realistic scenario, one that doesnt have us asking the
attacker to wait for us to dial the phone and wait for the cops to arrive
so he can be apprehended, I believe it's the phone dialing to 9/11 that
pissed him off enough to shoot



Quote:

The doctor and the policeman are both doing the same thing, they are both saving your life. So why are you ok with paying for one and not the other?




so wait, the cops saved me and now the doctards have to save me? if I was
saved once why do I need it again, why isnt the policeman removing the
bullet, patching me up and sending me home since he is supposed to be
saving me... seems I'm being double billed


Quote:

If you cant afford personal body guards then I guess you should just learn how to deal with it.




since when are cops ever there in time to protect someone, they're always
there just in time to ask questions about what the assailant looked like,
while it says 'to protect and serve' on the cars, they actually are under
no obligation to do either and since they arent with me 24 hours a day it
seems they're pretty fucking useless to start with

I guess I'll just stick to the .45, then I'll dial 911 and have them come
retrieve the body of the attacker, it's a 1 time payment to a gun dealer
and I have all the protection the police claim to offer but cant deliver
then the police can do the job they actually do, sanitation

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Offlined33p
Welcome to Violence

Registered: 07/12/03
Posts: 5,381
Loc: the shores of Tripoli
Last seen: 10 years, 10 months
Re: Socialist Policemen [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #14071159 - 03/05/11 02:21 PM (13 years, 27 days ago)

Private security companies operate just as well if not more so than police forces. Eliminate the moral hazard of police and then private enterprise should move into to service even less advantaged people.

Also, the wild west was not nearly as violent in comparison to today as portrayed by the media. The "wild west" and "effective modern police with amazing CSI" are the myths. Personally, I think the system of relying on self-defense with federal marshals to serve warrants and a justice system that hangs without reasonable doubt worked great.

No system will ever be able to change the reality that committing crime, even murder, is easy.


--------------------
I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends.

bang bang

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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
Re: Socialist Policemen [Re: d33p]
    #14071277 - 03/05/11 02:46 PM (13 years, 27 days ago)

Committing it isn't hard.  Getting away with it is.


--------------------

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Offlined33p
Welcome to Violence

Registered: 07/12/03
Posts: 5,381
Loc: the shores of Tripoli
Last seen: 10 years, 10 months
Re: Socialist Policemen [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14071376 - 03/05/11 03:12 PM (13 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Committing it isn't hard.  Getting away with it is.




The amount of drug crime, petty statutory violations, assaults, IP violation, and even murder(witness) that I have been party to or witness of without ending in conviction says otherwise.

A crime where both the victim and one's methods have no prior connection to them is very hard to catch.


--------------------
I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends.

bang bang

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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
Re: Socialist Policemen [Re: d33p]
    #14071614 - 03/05/11 04:12 PM (13 years, 27 days ago)

And yet people get caught every day.  I admit it's pretty easy to do all the drugs you want but robbery and murder?  That seems to get the cops' attention a little more


--------------------

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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Socialist Policemen [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14071735 - 03/05/11 04:38 PM (13 years, 27 days ago)

"To accurately respond to your question would take many hours of research and investigation. but, from 40 yrs. of law enforcement experience, here are the percentages i have experienced, which include the crimes of burglary, homocide, arson, kidnapping, theft and other misc. felony convictions. solved....50-60%. the actual number of unsolved criminal crime cases would stagger your mind. ever wonder why a tv series was created for COLD CASE FILES? its because there is such a wealth of material of unsolved cases."


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
Re: Socialist Policemen [Re: Icelander]
    #14071849 - 03/05/11 05:03 PM (13 years, 27 days ago)

You have 40 years of law enforcement experience?


--------------------

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OfflineTri High
Whigro
 User Gallery

Registered: 05/02/08
Posts: 11,769
Loc: Monaghan, Ireland
Last seen: 12 years, 21 days
Re: Socialist Policemen [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14072106 - 03/05/11 06:04 PM (13 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
You have 40 years of law enforcement "debate" experience?




--------------------
you just need money to get laid - starfire_xes

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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Socialist Policemen [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14072215 - 03/05/11 06:28 PM (13 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
You have 40 years of law enforcement experience?





Did you notice the quotation marks?  I did a search because I was curious. I have no idea how accurate that is but it would be in line with my guess.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineScreaming Eagle
American Patriot


Registered: 03/03/11
Posts: 54
Last seen: 13 years, 5 days
Re: Socialist Policemen [Re: ScavengerType]
    #14072652 - 03/05/11 08:03 PM (13 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

ScavengerType said:
Quote:

Screaming Eagle said:
Quote:

ScavengerType said:
It's my understanding that every town had a sheriff which was financed by the town and gun crime was rampant in those days in fact I think that gun-crime is the most famous thing about the time other than Saloons, both of which often seem to be associated.




If by gun-crime you mean people using guns to defend their property and families then sure, gun-crime was a lot more rampant.  But I hope a lot of people don't consider defending your family and property with a gun a gun crime.

Besides, if potential criminals knew you were more than willing and capable to shoot them if they tried to steal from you or hunt you down if you do something else illegal, wouldn't that be a major factor in turning you away from doing said crime?  I'd hope it'd be a lot more effective than calling 9-1-1 and then curling up in the fetal position when you hear someone breaking into your house.




Right only the good guys used guns and won. :rolleyes:
I think your drawing too much from movies for your concept of history.





Did I say THAT?  I may be old, maybe even senile, but I can't, for the life of me, REMEMBER saying THAT. 

Get back to me when you decide to stop dancing around my point.

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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
Re: Socialist Policemen [Re: Icelander]
    #14075023 - 03/06/11 10:37 AM (13 years, 26 days ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
You have 40 years of law enforcement experience?





Did you notice the quotation marks?  I did a search because I was curious. I have no idea how accurate that is but it would be in line with my guess.



I did notice them but you failed to offer a citation.


--------------------

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