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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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InvisibleBrainstem
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Superman or Orpheus ?
    #14012088 - 02/23/11 06:12 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

The Superman solution or the path of Orpheus ? Appliance of science or deeper exploration of the human condition ?
Superman or Orpheus ?
You may choose only one


Votes accepted from (02/23/11 06:12 AM) to (No end specified)
You must vote before you can view the results of this poll



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The arrogant cat stalks the humble mouse, the self important dog chases away the cat and is in turn unable to stand it's ground against the Proud lion. Then the lion is almost trampled underfoot of the enlightened elephant, who surprisingly and paradoxically yields to the humble mouse.

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Superman or Orpheus ? [Re: Brainstem]
    #14012495 - 02/23/11 09:18 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Man needs to face himself and his condition imo. Only then is change possible.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleBlondell_Letrange
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Re: Superman or Orpheus ? [Re: Icelander]
    #14013579 - 02/23/11 01:32 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Himself personally, or himself as a species/animal?


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:inlove3::inlove3:

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Superman or Orpheus ? [Re: Blondell_Letrange]
    #14013592 - 02/23/11 01:34 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

species dearest. I didn't say woman because I'm a sexist pig.:shrug:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleBlondell_Letrange
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Re: Superman or Orpheus ? [Re: Icelander]
    #14013711 - 02/23/11 01:49 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

How does man face himself?


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:inlove3::inlove3:

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InvisibleBlondell_Letrange
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Re: Superman or Orpheus ? [Re: Brainstem]
    #14013749 - 02/23/11 01:54 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Brainstem said:
The Superman solution or the path of Orpheus ? Appliance of science or deeper exploration of the human condition ?




"Appliance of science" :lol: (:rolleyes: yeah I am immature.)

The reason why I have not voted, is because I am not sure why you have put these as opposing options.

Is it really valid to choose one of the other?


--------------------
:inlove3::inlove3:

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Superman or Orpheus ? [Re: Blondell_Letrange]
    #14013781 - 02/23/11 01:59 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Blondell_Letrange said:
How does man face himself?




IMO by asking themselves questions about why they do everything they do.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleBlondell_Letrange
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Re: Superman or Orpheus ? [Re: Icelander]
    #14013818 - 02/23/11 02:04 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

But this isn't really answering the question fully.

If we are to ask ourselves these questions, which I believe we largely already do (well a bunch of academics and other philosophers do) how will we perceive the answers and know them to be true? (of the species.)

Apply science, or just keep up the introspective thought?

:lol:


--------------------
:inlove3::inlove3:

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Superman or Orpheus ? [Re: Blondell_Letrange]
    #14013894 - 02/23/11 02:13 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Well you must have the willingness to try and be honest and you must be intelligent.  Two tall orders.:hissyfit:

I wasn't suggesting that we would ever actually accomplish the act. I was just sayin'


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinelearningtofly
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Re: Superman or Orpheus ? [Re: Icelander]
    #14014047 - 02/23/11 02:35 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

I believe that a truly "advanced" society would actually be exploring the seemingly infinite mind rather than with so-called "technology." Sure we have gone to the moon but we don't even understand ourselves. How can we even begin to understand the world around us if we don't understand what's going on in our heads?


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InvisibleBlondell_Letrange
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Re: Superman or Orpheus ? [Re: Icelander]
    #14014079 - 02/23/11 02:38 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Well you must have the willingness to try and be honest and you must be intelligent.  Two tall orders.:hissyfit:




BUT HOW do we know we are being honest and or intelligent with our observations and answers (what actaul methods should we use? Hell...How do we even know we are asking the right questions?

Apply science, or introspective thought?


--------------------
:inlove3::inlove3:

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Superman or Orpheus ? [Re: learningtofly]
    #14014156 - 02/23/11 02:49 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

learningtofly said:
I believe that a truly "advanced" society would actually be exploring the seemingly infinite mind rather than with so-called "technology." Sure we have gone to the moon but we don't even understand ourselves. How can we even begin to understand the world around us if we don't understand what's going on in our heads?





You must know by now that I agree.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Superman or Orpheus ? [Re: Blondell_Letrange]
    #14014172 - 02/23/11 02:51 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Blondell_Letrange said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
Well you must have the willingness to try and be honest and you must be intelligent.  Two tall orders.:hissyfit:




BUT HOW do we know we are being honest and or intelligent with our observations and answers (what actaul methods should we use? Hell...How do we even know we are asking the right questions?

Apply science, or introspective thought?




We would know from the results I would guess.  If I want to get along with my gf and it's not happening it would be safe to conclude my methods were faulty.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinelearningtofly
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Re: Superman or Orpheus ? [Re: Icelander]
    #14014220 - 02/23/11 02:56 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

learningtofly said:
I believe that a truly "advanced" society would actually be exploring the seemingly infinite mind rather than with so-called "technology." Sure we have gone to the moon but we don't even understand ourselves. How can we even begin to understand the world around us if we don't understand what's going on in our heads?





You must know by now that I agree.



yah that wasn't really meant to be a direct response to you, i shoud've responded to the OP


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InvisibleBlondell_Letrange
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Re: Superman or Orpheus ? [Re: Icelander]
    #14014298 - 02/23/11 03:05 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

We would know from the results I would guess.




Before you get results, you must have a method.


Quote:

If I want to get along with my gf and it's not happening it would be safe to conclude my methods were faulty.




What methods?

What about from a relatively primitive psychology angle:

Are you more concerned with structuralism, functionalism or behaviourism?


--------------------
:inlove3::inlove3:

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Superman or Orpheus ? [Re: Blondell_Letrange]
    #14014331 - 02/23/11 03:08 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Sorry you'll have to define those terms before I can answer.  I'm unwashed and under educated.

It seems we all use methods of one sort or another always.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinelearningtofly
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Re: Superman or Orpheus ? [Re: Icelander]
    #14014406 - 02/23/11 03:18 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Those terms are various paradigms used by the psychological community.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Superman or Orpheus ? [Re: learningtofly]
    #14014418 - 02/23/11 03:19 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

That much I know.:lol:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleBlondell_Letrange
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Re: Superman or Orpheus ? [Re: Icelander]
    #14014448 - 02/23/11 03:24 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Excuse me, I am actually trying to be as simple as possible (I am unsure if you really do not know, or are merely inciting me to elaborate)

The reason why I mention them at all, and the purpose of all these questions is regarding the initial poll question, which I find myself unable to answer.

I am assuming I have understood the premise correctly and relating to these early psychology terms.

Structuralism (relating to orpheus) would concern itself with analysing consciousness into its basic elements and investigate how these relate. It is introspective and deals largely with sensation and perception...Thought content.

Functionalism (which in my mind) can go either way, Orpheus or Superman...Is is more of a why question, the function of consciousness rather than the structure.

Behaviourism (the superman) Is concerned with observable and testable behaviour. Verifiability, external environmental factors.

The OP hasn't elaborated further yet, so I am unsure if I am barking up the right tree at all, my uncertainty on the matter leaves me unable to vote...If I am correct then I would still be unable to vote as I think this is a false dichotomy, and I don't think it is a matter of one or the other :shrug:

***edit: Spelling error


--------------------
:inlove3::inlove3:

Edited by Blondell_Letrange (02/23/11 03:25 PM)

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Superman or Orpheus ? [Re: Blondell_Letrange]
    #14014471 - 02/23/11 03:27 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Then you should be addressing the questions to him. :shrug:

My view is if we addressed our primary motivations, which I can only surmise I have discovered, then and only then could emotional change occur thus changing our world.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order


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