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Invisibleliteratestylish
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Using oven bags to fix the problem of rapidly cooling jars
    #13758931 - 01/09/11 05:46 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Many people believe that removing jars from the pressure cooker too soon, and thus allowing rapid cooling, creates a suction of air into the jar (even through the filter). This has the chance of pulling in contaminants with it. Therefore, reading Hips Bulk Tek, wouldn't it make sense to use oven bags around the jars instead of foil? The oven bags would fill with sterilized air during pressure cooking. When the jars are removed from the pressure cooker, any air sucked into the jar from cooling would be sterilized air inside the bag.

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Invisiblebourndead
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Re: Using oven bags to fix the problem of rapidly cooling jars [Re: literatestylish]
    #13758950 - 01/09/11 05:51 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

It's not rapid cooling that causes the issue you described but rather rapid depressurization.


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Invisibleliteratestylish
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Re: Using oven bags to fix the problem of rapidly cooling jars [Re: bourndead]
    #13758954 - 01/09/11 05:52 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

bourndead said:
It's not rapid cooling that causes the issue you described but rather rapid depressurization.




Well in that case, my pressure cooker depressurizes in 10 minutes so no problem there.

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Offlineaudiophoenix
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Re: Using oven bags to fix the problem of rapidly cooling jars [Re: literatestylish]
    #13758972 - 01/09/11 05:55 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

I find that leaving my jars in the PC for 6 hours is a good time. The jars are still hot when I take them out but not steamy. If you take them out too soon you will also lose a bit of moisture, at least that's what I have found


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Invisibleliteratestylish
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Re: Using oven bags to fix the problem of rapidly cooling jars [Re: audiophoenix]
    #13759471 - 01/09/11 07:25 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

audiophoenix said:
I find that leaving my jars in the PC for 6 hours is a good time. The jars are still hot when I take them out but not steamy. If you take them out too soon you will also lose a bit of moisture, at least that's what I have found




How is that physically possible?

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Offlineaudiophoenix
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Re: Using oven bags to fix the problem of rapidly cooling jars [Re: literatestylish]
    #13759496 - 01/09/11 07:29 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

literatestylish said:
Quote:

audiophoenix said:
I find that leaving my jars in the PC for 6 hours is a good time. The jars are still hot when I take them out but not steamy. If you take them out too soon you will also lose a bit of moisture, at least that's what I have found




How is that physically possible?




Jars are full of pressurized steam. If you let them sit the steam will slowly condensate back onto/into the grain. If you take them out too soon the pressure/steam will find ways out. I am not saying it's essential just that I have noticed consistently that once I started leaving my grain in the PC for a bit longer I have moister kernels.


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Invisibleliteratestylish
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Re: Using oven bags to fix the problem of rapidly cooling jars [Re: audiophoenix]
    #13759569 - 01/09/11 07:41 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

audiophoenix said:
Quote:

literatestylish said:
Quote:

audiophoenix said:
I find that leaving my jars in the PC for 6 hours is a good time. The jars are still hot when I take them out but not steamy. If you take them out too soon you will also lose a bit of moisture, at least that's what I have found




How is that physically possible?




Jars are full of pressurized steam. If you let them sit the steam will slowly condensate back onto/into the grain. If you take them out too soon the pressure/steam will find ways out. I am not saying it's essential just that I have noticed consistently that once I started leaving my grain in the PC for a bit longer I have moister kernels.




Thats the point of the oven bag. Its a seal such as the PC is a seal..

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Offlineaudiophoenix
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Re: Using oven bags to fix the problem of rapidly cooling jars [Re: literatestylish]
    #13759722 - 01/09/11 08:14 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

well I wasn't really disagreeing with you just adding to what bourndead had said :shrug:


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Offlineafrosheen
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Re: Using oven bags to fix the problem of rapidly cooling jars [Re: audiophoenix]
    #13759835 - 01/09/11 08:32 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Just be casual with your timing, what's the rush? Do a PC run (or two) the night before and let it sit overnight. In the morning you can drink your coffee and open the PC without worries.


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Offlineaudiophoenix
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Re: Using oven bags to fix the problem of rapidly cooling jars [Re: afrosheen]
    #13759851 - 01/09/11 08:34 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

afrosheen said:
Just be casual with your timing, what's the rush? Do a PC run (or two) the night before and let it sit overnight. In the morning you can drink your coffee and open the PC without worries.




Word, I have never benefited from rushing in this hobby.


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Invisibleliteratestylish
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Re: Using oven bags to fix the problem of rapidly cooling jars [Re: afrosheen]
    #13759963 - 01/09/11 08:49 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

audiophoenix said:
Quote:

literatestylish said:
Quote:

audiophoenix said:
I find that leaving my jars in the PC for 6 hours is a good time. The jars are still hot when I take them out but not steamy. If you take them out too soon you will also lose a bit of moisture, at least that's what I have found




How is that physically possible?[/quote

Jars are full of pressurized steam. If you let them sit the steam will slowly condensate back onto/into the grain. If you take them out too soon the pressure/steam will find ways out. I am not saying it's essential just that I have noticed consistently that once I started leaving my grain in the PC for a bit longer I have moister kernels.



Quote:

afrosheen said:
Just be casual with your timing, what's the rush? Do a PC run (or two) the night before and let it sit overnight. In the morning you can drink your coffee and open the PC without worries.




Are we not always to be getting better at this hobby? You can stick with the status quo and I'll continue to make improvements to reduce PC time.

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OfflineSheagles
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Re: Using oven bags to fix the problem of rapidly cooling jars [Re: literatestylish]
    #13760054 - 01/09/11 09:00 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Touché!

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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Using oven bags to fix the problem of rapidly cooling jars [Re: literatestylish]
    #13760230 - 01/09/11 09:28 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

The jars won't get sterilized inside an oven bag.  You'd be trying to sterilize with hot air rather than hot steam.
RR


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Re: Using oven bags to fix the problem of rapidly cooling jars [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #13760624 - 01/09/11 10:28 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Why rush it anyways, let jars naturally cool down in the PC, trying to take it out soon could result in cracked jars, its safer to let them cool down slow in the sealed PC.

As RR said, you need the steam to make contact with the jars

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Invisibleliteratestylish
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Re: Using oven bags to fix the problem of rapidly cooling jars [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #13760660 - 01/09/11 10:34 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
The jars won't get sterilized inside an oven bag.  You'd be trying to sterilize with hot air rather than hot steam.
RR




Ahh, now THAT would be a problem! Thanks for the info.

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Invisibleliteratestylish
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Re: Using oven bags to fix the problem of rapidly cooling jars [Re: Shea25]
    #13760674 - 01/09/11 10:37 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Shea25 said:
Why rush it anyways, let jars naturally cool down in the PC, trying to take it out soon could result in cracked jars, its safer to let them cool down slow in the sealed PC.

As RR said, you need the steam to make contact with the jars




For those of us with PC's that can only fit 2 jars, it would take over a week to get all of your jars done. During that week, contaminants would be getting a head start on the jars that were done first. RR also advises to inoculate ASAP after the jars are done and cooled to prevent this. This is a great hobby but can definitely be frustrating at times!

As far as why I would want to find other methods other than the reasons above? Why not!? Thats how discoveries are made. Think about it.

Edited by literatestylish (01/09/11 11:18 PM)

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Offlineafrosheen
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Re: Using oven bags to fix the problem of rapidly cooling jars [Re: literatestylish]
    #13760716 - 01/09/11 10:45 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

If your PC can only fit two jars, just how small is it, the size of a coffee thermos? :rofl:


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Re: Using oven bags to fix the problem of rapidly cooling jars [Re: afrosheen]
    #13760783 - 01/09/11 10:57 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

i feel his pain as i can only currently PC 6 pint jars at a time,. so i have to PC a whole 12 pack of pint jars to make one monotub,.  is shitty titts,.

personally,. and no, im not advise'n anyone to do this,.. but IME ive always just dumped the pressure off my PC as soon as my time was up, and pulled the jars out with oven gloves,. ive not had a problem yet :shrug: might make my jars slightly drier,. but hasnt botherd them yet,. still colonize in 4-5 days? 6-7 at the slowest

so i can admire what the OP is trying to do,. as when you have 48-96 pint jars you got to PC at a time,. and you can only do 6 of the damned things at a time,.. yes,. it sucks,.

wish i could be as damned lucky to find a nice AA at a thrift shop,. is the next big item on my list,. a huge PC,. maybe two,. am building my flow hood this week :drooling: so that will be titts aswell

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Invisibleliteratestylish
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Re: Using oven bags to fix the problem of rapidly cooling jars [Re: Disgruntled]
    #13760909 - 01/09/11 11:19 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Disgruntled said:
i feel his pain as i can only currently PC 6 pint jars at a time,. so i have to PC a whole 12 pack of pint jars to make one monotub,.  is shitty titts,.

personally,. and no, im not advise'n anyone to do this,.. but IME ive always just dumped the pressure off my PC as soon as my time was up, and pulled the jars out with oven gloves,. ive not had a problem yet :shrug: might make my jars slightly drier,. but hasnt botherd them yet,. still colonize in 4-5 days? 6-7 at the slowest

so i can admire what the OP is trying to do,. as when you have 48-96 pint jars you got to PC at a time,. and you can only do 6 of the damned things at a time,.. yes,. it sucks,.

wish i could be as damned lucky to find a nice AA at a thrift shop,. is the next big item on my list,. a huge PC,. maybe two,. am building my flow hood this week :drooling: so that will be titts aswell




I call BS on the cracked glass thing. I've done this so many times and have never had a glass crack. Glass breaks when going from extreme temperatures (ie: 250f to -30f) ... Not from 150f to 85f.

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InvisibleShea25
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Re: Using oven bags to fix the problem of rapidly cooling jars [Re: literatestylish]
    #13760941 - 01/09/11 11:24 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

literatestylish said:
Quote:

Disgruntled said:
i feel his pain as i can only currently PC 6 pint jars at a time,. so i have to PC a whole 12 pack of pint jars to make one monotub,.  is shitty titts,.

personally,. and no, im not advise'n anyone to do this,.. but IME ive always just dumped the pressure off my PC as soon as my time was up, and pulled the jars out with oven gloves,. ive not had a problem yet :shrug: might make my jars slightly drier,. but hasnt botherd them yet,. still colonize in 4-5 days? 6-7 at the slowest

so i can admire what the OP is trying to do,. as when you have 48-96 pint jars you got to PC at a time,. and you can only do 6 of the damned things at a time,.. yes,. it sucks,.

wish i could be as damned lucky to find a nice AA at a thrift shop,. is the next big item on my list,. a huge PC,. maybe two,. am building my flow hood this week :drooling: so that will be titts aswell




I call BS on the cracked glass thing. I've done this so many times and have never had a glass crack. Glass breaks when going from extreme temperatures (ie: 250f to -30f) ... Not from 150f to 85f.




I have seen it happen, I got impatient and took a jar out to soon and placed it on my counter then crack, the bottom gave out.

Also it gets hotter then 150F in a PC. A PC operates at 250 °F.

Edited by Shea25 (01/09/11 11:29 PM)

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