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Cognitive_Shift
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Registered: 12/11/07
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Why is it when white people express pride, it's racism?
#13674411 - 12/23/10 04:01 AM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Why is western culture like this?
Isn't it suppressing of a culture to be afraid of expressing its pride?
-------------------- L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs
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redgreenvines
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Re: Why is it when white people express pride, it's racism? [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
#13674424 - 12/23/10 04:36 AM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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just call a spade a spade and move on.
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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Re: Why is it when white people express pride, it's racism? [Re: redgreenvines] 1
#13675062 - 12/23/10 10:01 AM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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People are afraid of being politically incorrect.
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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Fungicide
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Re: Why is it when white people express pride, it's racism? [Re: deCypher]
#13675109 - 12/23/10 10:18 AM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Well, honestly define being "white"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_people
Quote:
White people (also called Caucasian) is a term which usually refers to human beings characterized, at least in part, by the light pigmentation of their skin. Rather than a straightforward description of skin color, the term white denotes a specific set of ethnic groups and functions as a color metaphor for race.
One common definition of a "white person" is a person of primarily European ancestry.[1] However, the definition of a "white person" differs according to geographical and historical context, and various social constructions of whiteness have had implications in terms of national identity, consanguinity, public policy, religion, population statistics, racial segregation, affirmative action, eugenics, racial marginalization and racial quotas. The concept has been applied with varying degrees of formality and internal consistency in disciplines including: sociology, politics, genetics, biology, medicine, biomedicine, language, culture, and law.
Quote:
People are afraid of being politically incorrect.
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Lion
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Re: Why is it when white people express pride, it's racism? [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
#13675194 - 12/23/10 10:46 AM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Racial pride in general FTL.
In the U.S., it's more accepted for black people and other minorities to display pride because of white people's imposition of racial segregation and the white European-originated theory of racial superiority which set back those minorities for generations.
I think it's good for blacks, Latinos, etc. to make more of an effort to embrace their heritage, because in the U.S. popular culture still portrays minorities in a negative light, and it's hard to undo the psychological effects of all the years of economic, social, and political disparities between whites and ethnic minorities.
That being said, I think it's fine for white people to embrace their ethnic ancestry, as well. As a white male I am interested in my European origins and I make an effort to learn about and love the cultures from which I came.
I think eventually we will reach a point where it is anachronistic to hold race and nationality as sources of pride. Since we actually have no control over our skin pigmentation or what country our mothers dropped us out in, I think it's pretty illogical, even absurd, to take pride in it, as if it were an accomplishment or a merit of character. My healthy interest in my own heritage is checked by the fact that there are tons of other cultures and ethnic groups out there that do not directly comprise me, and that they are no less interesting and worthy of inquiry.
-------------------- “Strengthened by contemplation and study, I will not fear my passions like a coward. My body I will give to pleasures, to diversions that I’ve dreamed of, to the most daring erotic desires, to the lustful impulses of my blood, without any fear at all, for whenever I will— and I will have the will, strengthened as I’ll be with contemplation and study— at the crucial moments I’ll recover my spirit as was before: ascetic.”
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Lion
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Re: Why is it when white people express pride, it's racism? [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
#13675220 - 12/23/10 10:52 AM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Cognitive_Shift said: Why is western culture like this?
Isn't it suppressing of a culture to be afraid of expressing its pride?
One more thing: There is no such thing as "white culture". There are many cultures in the U.S. partaken in by whites: Irish American cultures, Italian American cultures, Protestant, Catholic, and Jewish cultures, and so forth, and all of these have found many means of expression, maintenance of tradition, and pride.
There is not really such thing as "black culture" either, but when you think of "black pride" in a U.S. context, you are talking about people united by their ancestry as members of an oppressed minority, the slave class, sharecroppers, etc. In Europe black identity and pride is largely a function of shared origins in African and West Indian colonies...again, as oppressed classes.
-------------------- “Strengthened by contemplation and study, I will not fear my passions like a coward. My body I will give to pleasures, to diversions that I’ve dreamed of, to the most daring erotic desires, to the lustful impulses of my blood, without any fear at all, for whenever I will— and I will have the will, strengthened as I’ll be with contemplation and study— at the crucial moments I’ll recover my spirit as was before: ascetic.”
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marny
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Re: Why is it when white people express pride, it's racism? [Re: Lion]
#13675303 - 12/23/10 11:24 AM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Because 'white' isn't a heritage. It's a vague racial term. It's like having pride in being an O negative blood type. If you mean growing up as a homogenized, macro-cultured, light-skinned American, then go right ahead. But what's the point of having pride in something you were born into? Shouldn't pride be left for something one accomplishes? Pride in one's heritage is a great way for people to stay bigoted, xenophobic, and willing to 'fight for their country'. It's a great manipulative tool for authority, but maybe we need to seriously consider why we are 'proud' of certain things.
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learningtofly
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Re: Why is it when white people express pride, it's racism? [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
#13675487 - 12/23/10 12:22 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Cognitive_Shift said: Why is western culture like this?
Isn't it suppressing of a culture to be afraid of expressing its pride?
There's no such thing as white culture. There's German, Swedish, etc, but no such thing as white culture.
Black Power and whatnot is a response to marginalization and more about taking a stand against the status quo.
It has nothing to do with being politically incorrect. It's just flat-out incorrect.
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Cognitive_Shift
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Re: Why is it when white people express pride, it's racism? [Re: learningtofly]
#13676273 - 12/23/10 04:19 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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What's wrong with being proud of your ethnicity?
(not white supremacist lol just playing devils advocate)
-------------------- L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs
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DieCommie
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: Why is it when white people express pride, it's racism? [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
#13677063 - 12/23/10 07:57 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
There's no such thing as white culture
Thats the bullshit they teach you in school.
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Lion
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Re: Why is it when white people express pride, it's racism? [Re: DieCommie] 1
#13677340 - 12/23/10 09:12 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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I have never seen anything like white culture. I think, for example, that Irish American and Italian American cultures are very different, and both of these are quite distinct from, say, Dutch or Bulgarian culture. And Southern Protestant culture does not much resemble Northeastern Catholic culture, which are both distinct from Greek Orthodox culture, and so forth. Perhaps you could give me an idea of the fundamental beliefs, traditions, and practices in which white culture consists?
-------------------- “Strengthened by contemplation and study, I will not fear my passions like a coward. My body I will give to pleasures, to diversions that I’ve dreamed of, to the most daring erotic desires, to the lustful impulses of my blood, without any fear at all, for whenever I will— and I will have the will, strengthened as I’ll be with contemplation and study— at the crucial moments I’ll recover my spirit as was before: ascetic.”
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DieCommie
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: Why is it when white people express pride, it's racism? [Re: Lion] 1
#13677364 - 12/23/10 09:19 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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I think you are being deliberately obtuse here. But let me give you an analogy that might clue you in. The distinction you are making is like distinguishing a dachshund from a st bernard. Big differences. But with a broader perspective of the greater animal kingdom they are virtually identical. Irish Americans and Italian Americans are very, very similar in culture with respect to the greater human race. Of course, and fortunately, here in the new world our culture isnt tied to our race like it often is in the old world.
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Lion
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Re: Why is it when white people express pride, it's racism? [Re: DieCommie] 1
#13677388 - 12/23/10 09:26 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Alright, I definitely agree that Italian American and Irish American are much more akin to one another than either is to say, Kikuyu culture or Tibetan culture. But why class them as "white culture"? African American culture and Irish American more closely resemble each other than, say, French culture and Latvian culture, both of which would be considered "white" by most standards.
I guess ultimately I view racial pride movements of minorities such as African Americans and Latinos as less-than-ideal, temporary crutches to overcome past disadvantages, but ultimately I disdain the idea of any kind of racial pride or ethnocentric cultural movement, just because it's illogical to be proud/arrogant about traits over which the individual has no control.
-------------------- “Strengthened by contemplation and study, I will not fear my passions like a coward. My body I will give to pleasures, to diversions that I’ve dreamed of, to the most daring erotic desires, to the lustful impulses of my blood, without any fear at all, for whenever I will— and I will have the will, strengthened as I’ll be with contemplation and study— at the crucial moments I’ll recover my spirit as was before: ascetic.”
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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Re: Why is it when white people express pride, it's racism? [Re: Lion]
#13677398 - 12/23/10 09:28 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Lion said: but ultimately I disdain the idea of any kind of racial pride or ethnocentric cultural movement
Why shouldn't I be proud of my heritage? Are you suggesting that I should be ashamed of it?
To be sure, our race is out of our control. But so are many other factors that we can rightly be proud about.
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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Lion
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Re: Why is it when white people express pride, it's racism? [Re: deCypher] 1
#13677410 - 12/23/10 09:31 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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It all depends on what you mean by "pride". You shouldn't deny your heritage or view it as a character flaw. But at the same time, it's beyond your control, so you shouldn't gain any sense of superiority from it. If you're going to be proud, be proud of something you actually had a direct influence over through the exertion of your willpower, like overcoming obstacles to achieve your goals. Don't be proud because you were born a pale person in the state of Texas instead of a brown-skinned person in the state of Chihuahua.
-------------------- “Strengthened by contemplation and study, I will not fear my passions like a coward. My body I will give to pleasures, to diversions that I’ve dreamed of, to the most daring erotic desires, to the lustful impulses of my blood, without any fear at all, for whenever I will— and I will have the will, strengthened as I’ll be with contemplation and study— at the crucial moments I’ll recover my spirit as was before: ascetic.”
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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Re: Why is it when white people express pride, it's racism? [Re: Lion]
#13677419 - 12/23/10 09:32 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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I can be proud about the past accomplishments of people of my own race, surely. Just playing devil's advocate here... to do so does seem to continue unnecessary racial division IMO.
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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Icelander
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Re: Why is it when white people express pride, it's racism? [Re: Lion]
#13677494 - 12/23/10 09:48 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Lion said: Alright, I definitely agree that Italian American and Irish American are much more akin to one another than either is to say, Kikuyu culture or Tibetan culture. But why class them as "white culture"? African American culture and Irish American more closely resemble each other than, say, French culture and Latvian culture, both of which would be considered "white" by most standards.
I guess ultimately I view racial pride movements of minorities such as African Americans and Latinos as less-than-ideal, temporary crutches to overcome past disadvantages, but ultimately I disdain the idea of any kind of racial pride or ethnocentric cultural movement, just because it's illogical to be proud/arrogant about traits over which the individual has no control.
Only americans are white. Except for the ones that aren't.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Lion
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Re: Why is it when white people express pride, it's racism? [Re: Icelander]
#13677504 - 12/23/10 09:51 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Icelandic people are the whitest.
-------------------- “Strengthened by contemplation and study, I will not fear my passions like a coward. My body I will give to pleasures, to diversions that I’ve dreamed of, to the most daring erotic desires, to the lustful impulses of my blood, without any fear at all, for whenever I will— and I will have the will, strengthened as I’ll be with contemplation and study— at the crucial moments I’ll recover my spirit as was before: ascetic.”
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Cognitive_Shift
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Re: Why is it when white people express pride, it's racism? [Re: Icelander]
#13677511 - 12/23/10 09:54 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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If your a minority it's completely okay to have an entire month dedicated to what your race has accomplished in the past. The person who came up with the idea was not only praised for such an idea but most likely looked at as a wonderful person. Now, a white person has an idea to dedicate a month to what white people have accomplished in the past. The person who came up with the idea would be viewed as ignorant and racist. lol it makes no sense.
Edited by Cognitive_Shift (12/23/10 10:00 PM)
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Icelander
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Re: Why is it when white people express pride, it's racism? [Re: Lion]
#13677515 - 12/23/10 09:55 PM (13 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Lion said: Icelandic people are the whitest.
Shiny white drunken pricks.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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