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 blinkybill
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Registered: 06/21/10
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Loc: Albania 
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 Spirituality? 
#12811078 - 06/27/10 08:17 AM (13 years, 9 months ago) |
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What is called spirituality, a nebulous concept at best, in fact describes a mass retreat from social and political reality: a futile attempt to fashion from the moribund and the archaic a view of the world that is comforting and easy to digest.
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" ... and then there are the unknown unknowns. Those things that we don't know that we don't know that we don't know."
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 Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Not just social and political reality but psychological reality as well.
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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.
" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.
With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Freedom
Pigment of your imagination
Registered: 05/26/05
Posts: 6,016
Last seen: 19 days, 18 hours
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You mean like when Buddhists meditate on rotting corpses being torn apart by vultures?
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Spirituality? [Re: Freedom]
#12811352 - 06/27/10 09:36 AM (13 years, 9 months ago) |
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I consider the base teachings of the Buddha and practices based on those teachings psychological rather than spiritual. Although much of Buddhism is religious and the main reason I'm not a follower.
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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.
" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.
With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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blinkybill
outsider
Registered: 06/21/10
Posts: 246
Loc: Albania
Last seen: 13 years, 4 months
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Re: Spirituality? [Re: Freedom]
#12814241 - 06/27/10 08:07 PM (13 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Freedom said:
You mean like when Buddhists meditate on rotting corpses being torn apart by vultures?
This is whats known as the fallacy of extension and is simply invalid. But yeah, the buddhists in my neighbourhood are forever meditating on corpses. And then they all go off together for decaf capuccinos and tofuburgers to talk about the experience.
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" ... and then there are the unknown unknowns. Those things that we don't know that we don't know that we don't know."
Edited by blinkybill (06/27/10 08:14 PM)
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Freedom
Pigment of your imagination
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How so?
The fallacy of OP is Faulty Generalization.
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blinkybill
outsider
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Posts: 246
Loc: Albania
Last seen: 13 years, 4 months
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Re: Spirituality? [Re: Freedom]
#12814451 - 06/27/10 08:47 PM (13 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Freedom said:
How so?
The fallacy of OP is Faulty Generalization.
You take the most extreme and rare example of what you call spirituality, knowing that what is generally called spirituality never even approximates your example, and offer this as somehow refuting my statement. Its a bar room way of arguing.
See Diploid's post The Fallacies of Philosophical Debate. Yours is a textbook case!
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" ... and then there are the unknown unknowns. Those things that we don't know that we don't know that we don't know."
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auxiliary
Mr.
Registered: 05/03/09
Posts: 2,278
Loc: Thatoneville
Last seen: 10 years, 7 months
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My own recognition is the dd.
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Freedom
Pigment of your imagination
Registered: 05/26/05
Posts: 6,016
Last seen: 19 days, 18 hours
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it may be the most extreme example (I don't think it is), but it is a valid example unless you are limiting your definition of spirituality to your locale or are talking about only some spiritual practices.
I thought you were talking about all spiritual practices, which would include buddhists meditating on rotting corpses.
Perhaps the real error of logic is thinking that something 'nebulous' can be clearly analyzed.
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blinkybill
outsider
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Posts: 246
Loc: Albania
Last seen: 13 years, 4 months
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Re: Spirituality? [Re: Freedom]
#12814590 - 06/27/10 09:10 PM (13 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Freedom said:
it may be the most extreme example (I don't think it is), but it is a valid example unless you are limiting your definition of spirituality to your locale or are talking about only some spiritual practices.
I thought you were talking about all spiritual practices, which would include buddhists meditating on rotting corpses.
Perhaps the real error of logic is thinking that something 'nebulous' can be clearly analyzed.
Its an extreme and relatively rare example and you know it. You don't argue from the extreme you argue from the broadly representative. My locale is the western world and so is yours so we should probably confine our discussions to what we know.
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" ... and then there are the unknown unknowns. Those things that we don't know that we don't know that we don't know."
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JackofSpades
Peace
Registered: 03/01/09
Posts: 2,897
Last seen: 10 years, 8 months
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Re: Spirituality? [Re: Freedom]
#12814595 - 06/27/10 09:10 PM (13 years, 9 months ago) |
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science and spirituality (buddhism) overlap as far as i can tell so i dont really see any rift between the two like the OP suggests. in fact, i see spirituality as deeper embrace of reality, not an escape.
'Buddhism has the characteristics of what would be expected in a cosmic religion for the future: It transcends a personal God, avoids dogmas and theology; it covers both the natural and the spiritual, and it is based on a religious sense aspiring from the experience of all things, natural and spiritual, as a meaningful unity.”
Albert Einstein
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  If you're frightened of dying and you're holding on, you'll see devils tearing your life away. But if you've made your peace, then the devils are really angels, freeing you from the earth.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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It cracks me up when Einstein gets quoted as an authority on philosophy and spirituality.  Just remember some of his cosmological theories were wrong.
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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.
" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.
With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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JackofSpades
Peace
Registered: 03/01/09
Posts: 2,897
Last seen: 10 years, 8 months
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Quote:
Icelander said:
It cracks me up when Einstein gets quoted as an authority on philosophy and spirituality. Just remember some of his cosmological theories were wrong.
can you name someone who was never wrong?
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If you're frightened of dying and you're holding on, you'll see devils tearing your life away. But if you've made your peace, then the devils are really angels, freeing you from the earth.
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auxiliary
Mr.
Registered: 05/03/09
Posts: 2,278
Loc: Thatoneville
Last seen: 10 years, 7 months
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Quote:
JackofSpades said:
in fact, i see spirituality as deeper embrace of reality, not an escape.
Unfortunately, the world is open for delusional interpretations.
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JackofSpades
Peace
Registered: 03/01/09
Posts: 2,897
Last seen: 10 years, 8 months
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Quote:
auxiliary said:
Quote:
JackofSpades said:
in fact, i see spirituality as deeper embrace of reality, not an escape.
Unfortunately, the world is open for delusional interpretations.
are you saying my statement is delusional or that other people take on delusional perspectives?
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If you're frightened of dying and you're holding on, you'll see devils tearing your life away. But if you've made your peace, then the devils are really angels, freeing you from the earth.
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blinkybill
outsider
Registered: 06/21/10
Posts: 246
Loc: Albania
Last seen: 13 years, 4 months
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Quote:
JackofSpades said:
science and spirituality (buddhism) overlap as far as i can tell so i dont really see any rift between the two like the OP suggests. in fact, i see spirituality as deeper embrace of reality, not an escape.
'Buddhism has the characteristics of what would be expected in a cosmic religion for the future: It transcends a personal God, avoids dogmas and theology; it covers both the natural and the spiritual, and it is based on a religious sense aspiring from the experience of all things, natural and spiritual, as a meaningful unity.”
Albert Einstein
Avoids dogma? Surely you jest.Quote:
JackofSpades said:
Quote:
Icelander said:
It cracks me up when Einstein gets quoted as an authority on philosophy and spirituality. Just remember some of his cosmological theories were wrong.
can you name someone who was never wrong?
You infuriate me. You choose to miss his point, that it is erroneous for you to be quoting Einstein, and respond to what even a child could argue over. Go to the other forum where you belong!
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" ... and then there are the unknown unknowns. Those things that we don't know that we don't know that we don't know."
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auxiliary
Mr.
Registered: 05/03/09
Posts: 2,278
Loc: Thatoneville
Last seen: 10 years, 7 months
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Quote:
JackofSpades said:
Quote:
auxiliary said:
Quote:
JackofSpades said:
in fact, i see spirituality as deeper embrace of reality, not an escape.
Unfortunately, the world is open for delusional interpretations.
are you saying my statement is delusional or that other people take on delusional perspectives?
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Freedom
Pigment of your imagination
Registered: 05/26/05
Posts: 6,016
Last seen: 19 days, 18 hours
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Quote:
blinkybill said:
Quote:
Freedom said:
it may be the most extreme example (I don't think it is), but it is a valid example unless you are limiting your definition of spirituality to your locale or are talking about only some spiritual practices.
I thought you were talking about all spiritual practices, which would include buddhists meditating on rotting corpses.
Perhaps the real error of logic is thinking that something 'nebulous' can be clearly analyzed.
Its an extreme and relatively rare example and you know it. You don't argue from the extreme you argue from the broadly representative. My locale is the wesetern world and so is yours so we should probably confine our discussions to what we know.
I see how you feel.
Actually the reason I chose that example is its simple. You talk about 'spirituality' and you are talking about a very complex group of behaviors and beliefs. I thought the example was a clear cut contradiction of what you said, the perfect antithesis for you to more clearly explain your argument by.
Now lets see what happens when I use a more complicated example.
Closest to my locale is my grandmother, a catholic who goes to church every sunday, prays everyday, and reads the bible regularly. She coordinates the food drive to feed poor people, she argues with me about the war in afgahnistan, and she votes. She has many friends in her community, and goes out to lunch with them everyday.
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JackofSpades
Peace
Registered: 03/01/09
Posts: 2,897
Last seen: 10 years, 8 months
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Quote:
JackofSpades said:
science and spirituality (buddhism) overlap as far as i can tell so i dont really see any rift between the two like the OP suggests. in fact, i see spirituality as deeper embrace of reality, not an escape.
'Buddhism has the characteristics of what would be expected in a cosmic religion for the future: It transcends a personal God, avoids dogmas and theology; it covers both the natural and the spiritual, and it is based on a religious sense aspiring from the experience of all things, natural and spiritual, as a meaningful unity.”
Albert Einstein
Avoids dogma? Surely you jest.Quote:
JackofSpades said:
Quote:
Icelander said:
It cracks me up when Einstein gets quoted as an authority on philosophy and spirituality. Just remember some of his cosmological theories were wrong.
can you name someone who was never wrong?
You infuriate me. You choose to miss his point, that it is erroneous for you to be quoting Einstein, and respond to what even a child could argue over. Go to the other forum where you belong!
maybe you need to look over what icelander said...
he said that it cracks him up when people use einstein as an authority on spirituality and philosophy because some of his theories were wrong.
i said thats kind of dumb (implied) because there has never been a person who has been correct about anything.
what was wrong about my statement?
also. in terms of dogma...I don't see any problem with dogma in my spirituality, its all founded on personal experience and i constantly question it.
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If you're frightened of dying and you're holding on, you'll see devils tearing your life away. But if you've made your peace, then the devils are really angels, freeing you from the earth.
Edited by JackofSpades (06/27/10 09:32 PM)
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JackofSpades
Peace
Registered: 03/01/09
Posts: 2,897
Last seen: 10 years, 8 months
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Quote:
auxiliary said:
Quote:
JackofSpades said:
Quote:
auxiliary said:
Quote:
JackofSpades said:
in fact, i see spirituality as deeper embrace of reality, not an escape.
Unfortunately, the world is open for delusional interpretations.
are you saying my statement is delusional or that other people take on delusional perspectives?
!______!
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!______!
!______!
!______!
!______!
!______!
!______!
!______!
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your wisdom and subtly run circles around me
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If you're frightened of dying and you're holding on, you'll see devils tearing your life away. But if you've made your peace, then the devils are really angels, freeing you from the earth.
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