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Offlinesoldatheero
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This is IMO the best explanation of why the infinite one existence divides into finite consciousness
    #12599300 - 05/20/10 04:38 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

The Whim from the Beyond

Through the ages, the human mind has
been profoundly restless in its search for
final explanations about first things. The
history of these endeavors to grasp first
things through the intellect is a tale of
recurrent failures. The redeeming feature of
these great efforts is that instead of being
disheartened by the confessed failures of
past thinkers, others are inspired to make
fresh attempts. All these philosophical
explanations are creations of the mind that
has never succeeded in passing beyond
itself. Thus they are confessed though
inspiring failures; nonetheless each such
failure is a partial contribution to knowledge
of the Beyond. Only those who have gone
beyond the mind know the Truth in its reality. If they sometimes
explain what they know, which they rarely
do, those explanations also being in words
are limited but these words illumine the mind;
they do not fill it with novel ideas.

The unitarian Beyond is an indivisible and
indescribable infinity. It seeks to know itself.
It is of no use to ask why it does so. To
attempt to give a reason for this is to be
involved in further questions and thus to
start an unending chain of reasons for
reasons, reasons for these reasons and so
on ad infinitum. The plain truth about this
initial urge to know itself is best called a
whim (Lahar). A whim is not a whim if it can
be explained or rationalized. And just as no
one may usefully ask why it arises, so no
one may ask when it arises. "When" implies
a time series with past, present and future.
All these are absent in the eternal Beyond.
So let us call this initial urge to know a
"whim." You may call this an explanation if
you like or you may call it an affirmation of
its inherent inexplicability.

The initial whim is completely independent
of reason, intellect, or imagination, all of
which are by-products of this whim. Reason,
intellect and imagination depend upon the initial
whim and not vice versa. Because the whim
is not dependent upon reason, intellect or
imagination, it can neither be understood
nor interpreted in terms of any of these
faculties of the limited mind.

The first whim to know instantaneously
implies a duality, an apparent differentiation
(not amounting to a breaking up) into two
separate aspects, both of which are infinite
as aspects of the Infinite. The first aspect
is that of infinite consciousness and the
second aspect is that of infinite
unconsciousness. The duality strives to
overcome itself and to restore the
apparently lost unity: The infinite
unconsciousness tries to unite with
infinite consciousness. Both aspects are
precipitated by the whim. This whim of the
Infinite is in a way comparable to an infinite
question, calling forth an infinite answer.

With the infinite question, there arises also
the infinite answer. The infinite question is
infinite unconsciousness; the infinite answer
is infinite consciousness. But the infinite
question and the infinite answer do not
simply annul each other and relapse into the
original unity of the Beyond. The two
aspects have now descended
into the primal duality which can resolve
itself only by fulfilling the entire game of
duality and not by any shortcut. The infinite
unconsciousness cannot overlap on infinite
consciousness; such coalescence is
impossible.

To reach out towards infinite consciousness
the infinite unconsciousness first has to
fathom its own depths. It must experience
itself first as infinitely finite, and gradually
evolve into limited and limiting
consciousness. With the evolution of the
limited and limiting consciousness, there is
also the evolution of the illusion which limits
this limiting consciousness. The two
processes keep pace with each other.

When the infinite unconsciousness tries to
reach out to the infinite consciousness, the
process is not instantaneous because of the
infinite disparity between the two. The
process takes an infinitely long time and
eternity gets seemingly broken into the
unending past, the transient present and the
uncertain future. Instead of embracing the
infinite consciousness in one timeless act
the infinite unconsciousness reaches out
towards it through a long-drawn-out
temporal process of evolution, with all of its
innumerable steps. It first attempts to fathom
its own depths, then by backward treads it
seeks and ultimately finds the infinite
consciousness through numberless steps,
thus fulfilling the whim from the Beyond.




Meher baba - 'Beams from the Spiritual Panarama'


--------------------
..and may the zelda theme song be with you at all times, amen.

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OfflineTranquil Toad
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Re: This is IMO the best explanation of why the infinite one existence divides into finite consciousness [Re: soldatheero]
    #12624022 - 05/25/10 12:50 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

One thing I would add is that the dimension of time can be misleading. In a sense the infinite consciousness did not take any time to divide down into physical existence. These levels exist simultaneously, outside of time. It exists both in its unified state and in its divided state.

An aspect or perspective of this consciousness may view itself as moving into further states of division or unification and thus create a sense of time, however the totality is timeless.

The one consciousness becomes more limited in its progression into further states of division. This includes imposing such structures as time. Time becomes more flexible the further you go back "up" towards the unity at the center; the undivided center is eternal and outside of time.

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Invisiblec0sm0nautt
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Re: This is IMO the best explanation of why the infinite one existence divides into finite consciousness [Re: soldatheero]
    #12625226 - 05/25/10 10:15 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

In short - 'The One became Two, the Two became 10 thousands things'  ?

I didn't really understand it too much. Is it saying that the unconscious reality is as autonomous as our reality?

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OfflineAngel_Above
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Re: This is IMO the best explanation of why the infinite one existence divides into finite consciousness [Re: c0sm0nautt]
    #12626185 - 05/25/10 02:04 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

c0sm0nautt said:
In short - 'The One became Two, the Two became 10 thousands things'  ?

I didn't really understand it too much. Is it saying that the unconscious reality is as autonomous as our reality?



I'm sure you've heard this quote before:

Existence that multiplied itself for sheer delight of being and plunged into numberless trillions of forms so that it might find itself innumerably
Sri Aurobindo

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Offlinecircastes
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Re: This is IMO the best explanation of why the infinite one existence divides into finite consciousness [Re: Angel_Above]
    #12626550 - 05/25/10 03:17 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

I had a bit of trouble understanding it, it would probably make sense after reading the text it's from, since you'd become more familiar with the 'colloquialisms'.

By finite consciousness does it mean the ego? Because I don't think our consciousness is finite at all.


--------------------
My solitude...
My shield...
My armour...

TESTED
WITH
FULL
FORCE

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OfflineAngel_Above
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Re: This is IMO the best explanation of why the infinite one existence divides into finite consciousness [Re: circastes]
    #12626853 - 05/25/10 04:07 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

circastes said:
I had a bit of trouble understanding it, it would probably make sense after reading the text it's from, since you'd become more familiar with the 'colloquialisms'.

By finite consciousness does it mean the ego? Because I don't think our consciousness is finite at all.



It's not really meant to be understood.

It's like breathing. We don't understand everything that goes into it, we're just aware of it and we do it naturally.

As is our existence.

Don't try to "understand" it, because that would mean you're using your mind, a creation of consciousness, to try to understand consciousness.

Coming up with a concept doesn't help

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Invisibleappleorange
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Re: This is IMO the best explanation of why the infinite one existence divides into finite consciousness [Re: Angel_Above]
    #12626916 - 05/25/10 04:17 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Angel_Above said:
Quote:

circastes said:
I had a bit of trouble understanding it, it would probably make sense after reading the text it's from, since you'd become more familiar with the 'colloquialisms'.

By finite consciousness does it mean the ego? Because I don't think our consciousness is finite at all.



It's not really meant to be understood.

It's like breathing. We don't understand everything that goes into it, we're just aware of it and we do it naturally.

As is our existence.

Don't try to "understand" it, because that would mean you're using your mind, a creation of consciousness, to try to understand consciousness.

Coming up with a concept doesn't help




Is your post not meant to be understood either?

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OfflineSaidin
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Re: This is IMO the best explanation of why the infinite one existence divides into finite consciousness [Re: appleorange]
    #12628021 - 05/25/10 07:15 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

I found this explanation using sacred geometry very enlightening.



--------------------
What, you ask, was the beginning of it all?  And it is this...

Existence that multiplied itself
For sheer delight of being
And plunged into numberless trillions of forms
So that it might
Find
Itself
Innumerably.
-Sri Aubobindo

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Offlinecircastes
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Re: This is IMO the best explanation of why the infinite one existence divides into finite consciousness [Re: Saidin]
    #12629870 - 05/26/10 12:56 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

I really like that quote in your sig.


--------------------
My solitude...
My shield...
My armour...

TESTED
WITH
FULL
FORCE

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OfflineTranquil Toad
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Registered: 04/17/09
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Re: This is IMO the best explanation of why the infinite one existence divides into finite consciousness [Re: circastes]
    #12631991 - 05/26/10 01:08 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

I thought of an analogy that may clarify this a little bit.

The infinite, in its undivided wholeness, is unable to view its own potential. For any experience requires both a perceiver and a form to be perceived. Before the infinite divided, it was only the perceiver. Picture one light suspended in blackness. The light represents awareness. The light has nothing to shine itself on, and therefore does not know itself.

However, if the light were able to split itself in two, each half could perceive the other. The is the blueprint for all existence. It is one consciousness using itself as a mirror to manifest experience.

When it first does the split, it can still only see half of its potential; for the one light that shines upon the second light cannot look back upon itself. They can see each other, but neither can see itself.

So it divides again. Now there are 4 lights. The infinite knows itself a bit more, for each light is able to see now 3 lights. It continues this process of division again and again, infinitely. For each light, no matter how many times it divides, is still infinite.

This is a very rough analogy, but it may help you understand what he was saying about the unconscious and the conscious. The unconscious is just that part of the infinite which cannot see its own light.

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OfflineSaidin
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Re: This is IMO the best explanation of why the infinite one existence divides into finite consciousness [Re: circastes]
    #12633080 - 05/26/10 04:42 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

circastes said:
I really like that quote in your sig.





Thanks!

Sri Aubobindo:  Philosopher, Mystic, Freedom Fighter.  My kind of guy!


--------------------
What, you ask, was the beginning of it all?  And it is this...

Existence that multiplied itself
For sheer delight of being
And plunged into numberless trillions of forms
So that it might
Find
Itself
Innumerably.
-Sri Aubobindo

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Invisibleteknix
𓂀⟁𓅢𓍝𓅃𓊰𓉡 𓁼𓆗⨻
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Posts: 11,953
Re: This is IMO the best explanation of why the infinite one existence divides into finite consciousness [Re: Saidin]
    #12633484 - 05/26/10 05:50 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

"The infinite unconsciousness cannot overlap on infinite
consciousness; such coalescence is
impossible."

This even apply's to the physics of the superficial plane in which we all reside, physically. That 2 objects of matter cannot occupy the same space at the same time.

The two types of conscious are expanding infitley away from eachother so that it may be observed, as infinite?

"The unitarian Beyond is an indivisible and
indescribable infinity"

I think infinity is a great discription, no matter how unfathomable it may be.

Do you vangaurd?

I am also wondering how and/or if the duality's effect one another, and if unconscious could be also termed as subconscious?

Also, what is that plane that holds the duality's, do they both exist in the same split plane, or are each of the planes independent?

I appologize if missed the answers in the reading, and would appreciate your help in pointing them out if they have been answered.

Thanks for the info.

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Offlinecircastes
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Re: This is IMO the best explanation of why the infinite one existence divides into finite consciousness [Re: Tranquil Toad]
    #12634488 - 05/26/10 08:54 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Tranquil Toad said:
I thought of an analogy that may clarify this a little bit.

The infinite, in its undivided wholeness, is unable to view its own potential. For any experience requires both a perceiver and a form to be perceived. Before the infinite divided, it was only the perceiver. Picture one light suspended in blackness. The light represents awareness. The light has nothing to shine itself on, and therefore does not know itself.

However, if the light were able to split itself in two, each half could perceive the other. The is the blueprint for all existence. It is one consciousness using itself as a mirror to manifest experience.

When it first does the split, it can still only see half of its potential; for the one light that shines upon the second light cannot look back upon itself. They can see each other, but neither can see itself.

So it divides again. Now there are 4 lights. The infinite knows itself a bit more, for each light is able to see now 3 lights. It continues this process of division again and again, infinitely. For each light, no matter how many times it divides, is still infinite.

This is a very rough analogy, but it may help you understand what he was saying about the unconscious and the conscious. The unconscious is just that part of the infinite which cannot see its own light.



That's very interesting.


--------------------
My solitude...
My shield...
My armour...

TESTED
WITH
FULL
FORCE

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Invisibleonce in a lifetime
sun child
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Re: This is IMO the best explanation of why the infinite one existence divides into finite consciousness [Re: soldatheero]
    #21561340 - 04/17/15 08:54 PM (8 years, 11 months ago)

"My God is love, and sweetly suffers all." --Sri Aurobindo

Meher Baba is an interesting fellow.  'Life at Its Best' is a nice, short book.. my only issue with Meher is that he said LSD was not useful. . I can understand that if a spiritual person in India or wherever, never had any access to it, they might say it's not useful; but if he says he's completely omniscient. . then he would know that it was - if he knew how valuable it is and still said it wasn't - then, it wouldn't be honest; and truth is the most important thing. . .

Which leads me to the conclusion that he's a brilliant saint, but not quite omniscient.

Still, his message was a very good one, to focus on love, selfless service, and these types of things. . without regard to caste, sectarian notions, and all of that. . I also believe in these things and they're found in many other saints as well, Ramana, Amma, Vivekananda, etc.

I suppose you could add George Harrison to that list. ;-)


--------------------
Innocent, Oldfield & Hegerland          Julia Delaney, Bothy Band                                        Rasta Girl, Sister Carol                    Genesis, Jorma K
I Wish You Peace, Lawrence Laughing                                                                                                                    Do Your Thing, Moondog                     
large  . . music garden . .  very
all peace                    them hi
Starhouse - main
Time Traveler's Guide

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OfflineDeviate
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Re: This is IMO the best explanation of why the infinite one existence divides into finite consciousness [Re: once in a lifetime]
    #21562491 - 04/18/15 07:31 AM (8 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:



Meher Baba is an interesting fellow.  'Life at Its Best' is a nice, short book.. my only issue with Meher is that he said LSD was not useful. . I can understand that if a spiritual person in India or wherever, never had any access to it, they might say it's not useful; but if he says he's completely omniscient. . then he would know that it was - if he knew how valuable it is and still said it wasn't - then, it wouldn't be honest; and truth is the most important thing. . .

Which leads me to the conclusion that he's a brilliant saint, but not quite omniscient.

Still, his message was a very good one, to focus on love, selfless service, and these types of things. . without regard to caste, sectarian notions, and all of that. . I also believe in these things and they're found in many other saints as well, Ramana, Amma, Vivekananda, etc.

I suppose you could add George Harrison to that list. ;-)




His opinion on LSD was not based on lack of access, rather he was living at a time when psychedelics were becoming increasingly popular as a means to spiritual enlightenment and he was of the opinion that they are harmful and do not deliver the "real thing".

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Invisibleonce in a lifetime
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Re: This is IMO the best explanation of why the infinite one existence divides into finite consciousness [Re: Deviate]
    #21562723 - 04/18/15 09:33 AM (8 years, 11 months ago)

But they do.

:-)


--------------------
Innocent, Oldfield & Hegerland          Julia Delaney, Bothy Band                                        Rasta Girl, Sister Carol                    Genesis, Jorma K
I Wish You Peace, Lawrence Laughing                                                                                                                    Do Your Thing, Moondog                     
large  . . music garden . .  very
all peace                    them hi
Starhouse - main
Time Traveler's Guide

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OfflineDeviate
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Re: This is IMO the best explanation of why the infinite one existence divides into finite consciousness [Re: once in a lifetime]
    #21562732 - 04/18/15 09:36 AM (8 years, 11 months ago)

How do you know?

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Invisibleonce in a lifetime
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Re: This is IMO the best explanation of why the infinite one existence divides into finite consciousness [Re: Deviate]
    #21562751 - 04/18/15 09:43 AM (8 years, 11 months ago)

When you wake up from the dream, when your feet are on the ground of reality - the source - for the first time, you know this is real.


--------------------
Innocent, Oldfield & Hegerland          Julia Delaney, Bothy Band                                        Rasta Girl, Sister Carol                    Genesis, Jorma K
I Wish You Peace, Lawrence Laughing                                                                                                                    Do Your Thing, Moondog                     
large  . . music garden . .  very
all peace                    them hi
Starhouse - main
Time Traveler's Guide

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InvisiblePocketLady
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Re: This is IMO the best explanation of why the infinite one existence divides into finite consciousness [Re: once in a lifetime]
    #21562821 - 04/18/15 10:07 AM (8 years, 11 months ago)

Sure, LSD can allow you to have experience higher states of consciousness. It can take you to truth, but it cannot keep you there. It shows you the possibilities, but it is not a path to them permanently.

The use of psychedelics set me on the spiritual path, but once I was on the path I found it held me back. For one thing, they mess with your energy field and can do temporary damage to it.

I like the way Alan Watts put it. "When you get the message, hang up the phone."


--------------------
Love is from the infinite, and will remain until eternity.
The seeker of love escapes the chains of birth and death.
Tomorrow, when resurrection comes,
The heart that is not in love will fail the test.

~ Rumi



The day we start giving Love instead of seeking Love, we will have re-written our whole destiny.
~ Swami Chinmayanada Saraswatir

Edited by PocketLady (04/18/15 10:28 AM)

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OfflineDeviate
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Re: This is IMO the best explanation of why the infinite one existence divides into finite consciousness [Re: PocketLady]
    #21562942 - 04/18/15 10:37 AM (8 years, 11 months ago)

Right, I am not saying LSD doesn't show you higher states but it doesn't give you a whole lot in the way of permanent realization, in my experience.

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