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soldatheero
lastirishman
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This is IMO the best explanation of why the infinite one existence divides into finite consciousness
#12599300 - 05/20/10 04:38 PM (13 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Whim from the Beyond
Through the ages, the human mind has been profoundly restless in its search for final explanations about first things. The history of these endeavors to grasp first things through the intellect is a tale of recurrent failures. The redeeming feature of these great efforts is that instead of being disheartened by the confessed failures of past thinkers, others are inspired to make fresh attempts. All these philosophical explanations are creations of the mind that has never succeeded in passing beyond itself. Thus they are confessed though inspiring failures; nonetheless each such failure is a partial contribution to knowledge of the Beyond. Only those who have gone beyond the mind know the Truth in its reality. If they sometimes explain what they know, which they rarely do, those explanations also being in words are limited but these words illumine the mind; they do not fill it with novel ideas.
The unitarian Beyond is an indivisible and indescribable infinity. It seeks to know itself. It is of no use to ask why it does so. To attempt to give a reason for this is to be involved in further questions and thus to start an unending chain of reasons for reasons, reasons for these reasons and so on ad infinitum. The plain truth about this initial urge to know itself is best called a whim (Lahar). A whim is not a whim if it can be explained or rationalized. And just as no one may usefully ask why it arises, so no one may ask when it arises. "When" implies a time series with past, present and future. All these are absent in the eternal Beyond. So let us call this initial urge to know a "whim." You may call this an explanation if you like or you may call it an affirmation of its inherent inexplicability.
The initial whim is completely independent of reason, intellect, or imagination, all of which are by-products of this whim. Reason, intellect and imagination depend upon the initial whim and not vice versa. Because the whim is not dependent upon reason, intellect or imagination, it can neither be understood nor interpreted in terms of any of these faculties of the limited mind.
The first whim to know instantaneously implies a duality, an apparent differentiation (not amounting to a breaking up) into two separate aspects, both of which are infinite as aspects of the Infinite. The first aspect is that of infinite consciousness and the second aspect is that of infinite unconsciousness. The duality strives to overcome itself and to restore the apparently lost unity: The infinite unconsciousness tries to unite with infinite consciousness. Both aspects are precipitated by the whim. This whim of the Infinite is in a way comparable to an infinite question, calling forth an infinite answer.
With the infinite question, there arises also the infinite answer. The infinite question is infinite unconsciousness; the infinite answer is infinite consciousness. But the infinite question and the infinite answer do not simply annul each other and relapse into the original unity of the Beyond. The two aspects have now descended into the primal duality which can resolve itself only by fulfilling the entire game of duality and not by any shortcut. The infinite unconsciousness cannot overlap on infinite consciousness; such coalescence is impossible.
To reach out towards infinite consciousness the infinite unconsciousness first has to fathom its own depths. It must experience itself first as infinitely finite, and gradually evolve into limited and limiting consciousness. With the evolution of the limited and limiting consciousness, there is also the evolution of the illusion which limits this limiting consciousness. The two processes keep pace with each other.
When the infinite unconsciousness tries to reach out to the infinite consciousness, the process is not instantaneous because of the infinite disparity between the two. The process takes an infinitely long time and eternity gets seemingly broken into the unending past, the transient present and the uncertain future. Instead of embracing the infinite consciousness in one timeless act the infinite unconsciousness reaches out towards it through a long-drawn-out temporal process of evolution, with all of its innumerable steps. It first attempts to fathom its own depths, then by backward treads it seeks and ultimately finds the infinite consciousness through numberless steps, thus fulfilling the whim from the Beyond.
Meher baba - 'Beams from the Spiritual Panarama'
-------------------- ..and may the zelda theme song be with you at all times, amen.
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Tranquil Toad
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Re: This is IMO the best explanation of why the infinite one existence divides into finite consciousness [Re: soldatheero]
#12624022 - 05/25/10 12:50 AM (13 years, 10 months ago) |
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One thing I would add is that the dimension of time can be misleading. In a sense the infinite consciousness did not take any time to divide down into physical existence. These levels exist simultaneously, outside of time. It exists both in its unified state and in its divided state.
An aspect or perspective of this consciousness may view itself as moving into further states of division or unification and thus create a sense of time, however the totality is timeless.
The one consciousness becomes more limited in its progression into further states of division. This includes imposing such structures as time. Time becomes more flexible the further you go back "up" towards the unity at the center; the undivided center is eternal and outside of time.
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c0sm0nautt
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Re: This is IMO the best explanation of why the infinite one existence divides into finite consciousness [Re: soldatheero]
#12625226 - 05/25/10 10:15 AM (13 years, 10 months ago) |
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In short - 'The One became Two, the Two became 10 thousands things' ?
I didn't really understand it too much. Is it saying that the unconscious reality is as autonomous as our reality?
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Angel_Above
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Re: This is IMO the best explanation of why the infinite one existence divides into finite consciousness [Re: c0sm0nautt]
#12626185 - 05/25/10 02:04 PM (13 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
c0sm0nautt said: In short - 'The One became Two, the Two became 10 thousands things' ?
I didn't really understand it too much. Is it saying that the unconscious reality is as autonomous as our reality?
I'm sure you've heard this quote before:
Existence that multiplied itself for sheer delight of being and plunged into numberless trillions of forms so that it might find itself innumerably Sri Aurobindo
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circastes
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Re: This is IMO the best explanation of why the infinite one existence divides into finite consciousness [Re: Angel_Above]
#12626550 - 05/25/10 03:17 PM (13 years, 10 months ago) |
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I had a bit of trouble understanding it, it would probably make sense after reading the text it's from, since you'd become more familiar with the 'colloquialisms'.
By finite consciousness does it mean the ego? Because I don't think our consciousness is finite at all.
-------------------- My solitude... My shield... My armour... TESTED WITH FULL FORCE
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Angel_Above
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Re: This is IMO the best explanation of why the infinite one existence divides into finite consciousness [Re: circastes]
#12626853 - 05/25/10 04:07 PM (13 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
circastes said: I had a bit of trouble understanding it, it would probably make sense after reading the text it's from, since you'd become more familiar with the 'colloquialisms'.
By finite consciousness does it mean the ego? Because I don't think our consciousness is finite at all.
It's not really meant to be understood.
It's like breathing. We don't understand everything that goes into it, we're just aware of it and we do it naturally.
As is our existence.
Don't try to "understand" it, because that would mean you're using your mind, a creation of consciousness, to try to understand consciousness.
Coming up with a concept doesn't help
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appleorange
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Re: This is IMO the best explanation of why the infinite one existence divides into finite consciousness [Re: Angel_Above]
#12626916 - 05/25/10 04:17 PM (13 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Angel_Above said:
Quote:
circastes said: I had a bit of trouble understanding it, it would probably make sense after reading the text it's from, since you'd become more familiar with the 'colloquialisms'.
By finite consciousness does it mean the ego? Because I don't think our consciousness is finite at all.
It's not really meant to be understood.
It's like breathing. We don't understand everything that goes into it, we're just aware of it and we do it naturally.
As is our existence.
Don't try to "understand" it, because that would mean you're using your mind, a creation of consciousness, to try to understand consciousness.
Coming up with a concept doesn't help
Is your post not meant to be understood either?
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Saidin
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Re: This is IMO the best explanation of why the infinite one existence divides into finite consciousness [Re: appleorange]
#12628021 - 05/25/10 07:15 PM (13 years, 10 months ago) |
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I found this explanation using sacred geometry very enlightening.
-------------------- What, you ask, was the beginning of it all? And it is this... Existence that multiplied itself For sheer delight of being And plunged into numberless trillions of forms So that it might Find Itself Innumerably. -Sri Aubobindo
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circastes
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Re: This is IMO the best explanation of why the infinite one existence divides into finite consciousness [Re: Saidin]
#12629870 - 05/26/10 12:56 AM (13 years, 10 months ago) |
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I really like that quote in your sig.
-------------------- My solitude... My shield... My armour... TESTED WITH FULL FORCE
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Tranquil Toad
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Re: This is IMO the best explanation of why the infinite one existence divides into finite consciousness [Re: circastes]
#12631991 - 05/26/10 01:08 PM (13 years, 10 months ago) |
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I thought of an analogy that may clarify this a little bit.
The infinite, in its undivided wholeness, is unable to view its own potential. For any experience requires both a perceiver and a form to be perceived. Before the infinite divided, it was only the perceiver. Picture one light suspended in blackness. The light represents awareness. The light has nothing to shine itself on, and therefore does not know itself.
However, if the light were able to split itself in two, each half could perceive the other. The is the blueprint for all existence. It is one consciousness using itself as a mirror to manifest experience.
When it first does the split, it can still only see half of its potential; for the one light that shines upon the second light cannot look back upon itself. They can see each other, but neither can see itself.
So it divides again. Now there are 4 lights. The infinite knows itself a bit more, for each light is able to see now 3 lights. It continues this process of division again and again, infinitely. For each light, no matter how many times it divides, is still infinite.
This is a very rough analogy, but it may help you understand what he was saying about the unconscious and the conscious. The unconscious is just that part of the infinite which cannot see its own light.
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Saidin
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Re: This is IMO the best explanation of why the infinite one existence divides into finite consciousness [Re: circastes]
#12633080 - 05/26/10 04:42 PM (13 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
circastes said: I really like that quote in your sig.
Thanks!
Sri Aubobindo: Philosopher, Mystic, Freedom Fighter. My kind of guy!
-------------------- What, you ask, was the beginning of it all? And it is this... Existence that multiplied itself For sheer delight of being And plunged into numberless trillions of forms So that it might Find Itself Innumerably. -Sri Aubobindo
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teknix
𓂀⟁𓅢𓍝𓅃𓊰𓉡 𓁼𓆗⨻
Registered: 09/16/08
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Re: This is IMO the best explanation of why the infinite one existence divides into finite consciousness [Re: Saidin]
#12633484 - 05/26/10 05:50 PM (13 years, 10 months ago) |
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"The infinite unconsciousness cannot overlap on infinite consciousness; such coalescence is impossible."
This even apply's to the physics of the superficial plane in which we all reside, physically. That 2 objects of matter cannot occupy the same space at the same time.
The two types of conscious are expanding infitley away from eachother so that it may be observed, as infinite?
"The unitarian Beyond is an indivisible and indescribable infinity"
I think infinity is a great discription, no matter how unfathomable it may be.
Do you vangaurd?
I am also wondering how and/or if the duality's effect one another, and if unconscious could be also termed as subconscious?
Also, what is that plane that holds the duality's, do they both exist in the same split plane, or are each of the planes independent?
I appologize if missed the answers in the reading, and would appreciate your help in pointing them out if they have been answered.
Thanks for the info.
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circastes
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Re: This is IMO the best explanation of why the infinite one existence divides into finite consciousness [Re: Tranquil Toad]
#12634488 - 05/26/10 08:54 PM (13 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Tranquil Toad said: I thought of an analogy that may clarify this a little bit.
The infinite, in its undivided wholeness, is unable to view its own potential. For any experience requires both a perceiver and a form to be perceived. Before the infinite divided, it was only the perceiver. Picture one light suspended in blackness. The light represents awareness. The light has nothing to shine itself on, and therefore does not know itself.
However, if the light were able to split itself in two, each half could perceive the other. The is the blueprint for all existence. It is one consciousness using itself as a mirror to manifest experience.
When it first does the split, it can still only see half of its potential; for the one light that shines upon the second light cannot look back upon itself. They can see each other, but neither can see itself.
So it divides again. Now there are 4 lights. The infinite knows itself a bit more, for each light is able to see now 3 lights. It continues this process of division again and again, infinitely. For each light, no matter how many times it divides, is still infinite.
This is a very rough analogy, but it may help you understand what he was saying about the unconscious and the conscious. The unconscious is just that part of the infinite which cannot see its own light.
That's very interesting.
-------------------- My solitude... My shield... My armour... TESTED WITH FULL FORCE
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once in a lifetime
sun child
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Re: This is IMO the best explanation of why the infinite one existence divides into finite consciousness [Re: soldatheero]
#21561340 - 04/17/15 08:54 PM (8 years, 11 months ago) |
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"My God is love, and sweetly suffers all." --Sri Aurobindo
Meher Baba is an interesting fellow. 'Life at Its Best' is a nice, short book.. my only issue with Meher is that he said LSD was not useful. . I can understand that if a spiritual person in India or wherever, never had any access to it, they might say it's not useful; but if he says he's completely omniscient. . then he would know that it was - if he knew how valuable it is and still said it wasn't - then, it wouldn't be honest; and truth is the most important thing. . .
Which leads me to the conclusion that he's a brilliant saint, but not quite omniscient.
Still, his message was a very good one, to focus on love, selfless service, and these types of things. . without regard to caste, sectarian notions, and all of that. . I also believe in these things and they're found in many other saints as well, Ramana, Amma, Vivekananda, etc.
I suppose you could add George Harrison to that list. ;-)
-------------------- Innocent, Oldfield & Hegerland Julia Delaney, Bothy Band Rasta Girl, Sister Carol Genesis, Jorma K I Wish You Peace, Lawrence Laughing Do Your Thing, Moondog large . . music garden . . veryall peace them hiStarhouse - main Time Traveler's Guide
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Deviate
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Re: This is IMO the best explanation of why the infinite one existence divides into finite consciousness [Re: once in a lifetime]
#21562491 - 04/18/15 07:31 AM (8 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Meher Baba is an interesting fellow. 'Life at Its Best' is a nice, short book.. my only issue with Meher is that he said LSD was not useful. . I can understand that if a spiritual person in India or wherever, never had any access to it, they might say it's not useful; but if he says he's completely omniscient. . then he would know that it was - if he knew how valuable it is and still said it wasn't - then, it wouldn't be honest; and truth is the most important thing. . .
Which leads me to the conclusion that he's a brilliant saint, but not quite omniscient.
Still, his message was a very good one, to focus on love, selfless service, and these types of things. . without regard to caste, sectarian notions, and all of that. . I also believe in these things and they're found in many other saints as well, Ramana, Amma, Vivekananda, etc.
I suppose you could add George Harrison to that list. ;-)
His opinion on LSD was not based on lack of access, rather he was living at a time when psychedelics were becoming increasingly popular as a means to spiritual enlightenment and he was of the opinion that they are harmful and do not deliver the "real thing".
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once in a lifetime
sun child
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Re: This is IMO the best explanation of why the infinite one existence divides into finite consciousness [Re: Deviate]
#21562723 - 04/18/15 09:33 AM (8 years, 11 months ago) |
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But they do.
:-)
-------------------- Innocent, Oldfield & Hegerland Julia Delaney, Bothy Band Rasta Girl, Sister Carol Genesis, Jorma K I Wish You Peace, Lawrence Laughing Do Your Thing, Moondog large . . music garden . . veryall peace them hiStarhouse - main Time Traveler's Guide
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Deviate
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Re: This is IMO the best explanation of why the infinite one existence divides into finite consciousness [Re: once in a lifetime]
#21562732 - 04/18/15 09:36 AM (8 years, 11 months ago) |
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How do you know?
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once in a lifetime
sun child
Registered: 02/12/15
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Re: This is IMO the best explanation of why the infinite one existence divides into finite consciousness [Re: Deviate]
#21562751 - 04/18/15 09:43 AM (8 years, 11 months ago) |
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When you wake up from the dream, when your feet are on the ground of reality - the source - for the first time, you know this is real.
-------------------- Innocent, Oldfield & Hegerland Julia Delaney, Bothy Band Rasta Girl, Sister Carol Genesis, Jorma K I Wish You Peace, Lawrence Laughing Do Your Thing, Moondog large . . music garden . . veryall peace them hiStarhouse - main Time Traveler's Guide
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PocketLady
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Re: This is IMO the best explanation of why the infinite one existence divides into finite consciousness [Re: once in a lifetime]
#21562821 - 04/18/15 10:07 AM (8 years, 11 months ago) |
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Sure, LSD can allow you to have experience higher states of consciousness. It can take you to truth, but it cannot keep you there. It shows you the possibilities, but it is not a path to them permanently.
The use of psychedelics set me on the spiritual path, but once I was on the path I found it held me back. For one thing, they mess with your energy field and can do temporary damage to it.
I like the way Alan Watts put it. "When you get the message, hang up the phone."
-------------------- Love is from the infinite, and will remain until eternity. The seeker of love escapes the chains of birth and death. Tomorrow, when resurrection comes, The heart that is not in love will fail the test. ~ Rumi The day we start giving Love instead of seeking Love, we will have re-written our whole destiny. ~ Swami Chinmayanada Saraswatir
Edited by PocketLady (04/18/15 10:28 AM)
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Deviate
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Re: This is IMO the best explanation of why the infinite one existence divides into finite consciousness [Re: PocketLady]
#21562942 - 04/18/15 10:37 AM (8 years, 11 months ago) |
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Right, I am not saying LSD doesn't show you higher states but it doesn't give you a whole lot in the way of permanent realization, in my experience.
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