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elliszero
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Popcorn - 2nd attempt. Seeking Advice on Jars and pin induction.
#12456764 - 04/25/10 10:25 PM (13 years, 11 months ago) |
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Evening all -
Well it seems I've overheard some people discussing another popcorn setup again, after failing miserably with the Hulata and Tampanensis strains.
This time, they are trying Ecuador and Burma, which I've read on here to be relatively easier and more forgiving on some things.
One of the questions I'd overheard after they'd colonized their jars was regarding removal of the actual material - seems that there's an awful lot of busting up of the nicely solidified cake due to the tiny "shoulder" on the jar. They had looked for jars without a taper, and yet even the ones purchased that say "wide mouth" prohibit the removal of the substrate in nice chunks - most of their material coming out in crumbles of single kernels or pieces no larger than a quarter in diameter. This seems like it's a bad thing and would prevent proper fruiting, but they can't seem to find a better way to remove the material. What would you suggest? Ignore it and proceed as normal or is there a better method than taking a table spoon and gingerly removing the chunks?
Something else they seemed to have on their mind was the humidity and temperature. Often I've read on here that - to get the cakes to fruit, you need to drop the temperature in the FC from the low 80's used for incubation to the low 70's. Does this seem accurate for the strains listed above?
Seems they tried to use perlite for humidity last time, and that could have also been what hurt them. In addition to dropping the temperature, isn't the humidity supposed to be low, carried out by only light misting on the casing (50% sphagnum peat moss, 50% vermiculite on a foil bread tin)?
Guess I've read quite a few posts on here regarding this stuff, and I'm looking for theoretical affirmation of the techniques. They sounded really heartbroken since spending so much time and money on materials and yielding absolutely nothing. If this doesn't work, I think they will have to go back to cakes, since they can't seem to get the hang of things.
Any advice, constructive criticism or words of encouragement sincerely appreciated!
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13shrooms
Lightning Shaman
Registered: 01/01/09
Posts: 26,719
Loc: IN ETHERS TORSION FIELD
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Re: Popcorn - 2nd attempt. Seeking Advice on Jars and pin induction. [Re: elliszero]
#12457365 - 04/26/10 12:02 AM (13 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
One of the questions I'd overheard after they'd colonized their jars was regarding removal of the actual material - seems that there's an awful lot of busting up of the nicely solidified cake due to the tiny "shoulder" on the jar. They had looked for jars without a taper, and yet even the ones purchased that say "wide mouth" prohibit the removal of the substrate in nice chunks - most of their material coming out in crumbles of single kernels or pieces no larger than a quarter in diameter. This seems like it's a bad thing and would prevent proper fruiting, but they can't seem to find a better way to remove the material. What would you suggest? Ignore it and proceed as normal or is there a better method than taking a table spoon and gingerly removing the chunks?
it depends on how their fruiting it.
since popcorn is being used once its fully colonized it should be spawned to coir or manure then let that recolonize into "a big cake" then put that in fruiting conditions to pin/fruit.
Quote:
Something else they seemed to have on their mind was the humidity and temperature. Often I've read on here that - to get the cakes to fruit, you need to drop the temperature in the FC from the low 80's used for incubation to the low 70's. Does this seem accurate for the strains listed above?
68-81F is the range for all stages of the cubensis life cycle. colonize/fruit at the room temps and your all good.
Quote:
Seems they tried to use perlite for humidity last time, and that could have also been what hurt them. In addition to dropping the temperature, isn't the humidity supposed to be low, carried out by only light misting on the casing (50% sphagnum peat moss, 50% vermiculite on a foil bread tin)?
a shotgun FC with 5" of damp perlite is what you want for fruiting pf-tek cakes or small trays of bulk substrates. cubensis are tropical mushrooms NO temp drop or casing is needed for pinning/fruiting cubes.
you want a humidity of 95%+ and constant room temps. you need to add food (coir or manure) after crumbling the myc out of your jars so it has more energy to fruit after knitting itself back together in the trays. dont just case your pcorn. add a equal or double amount of coir as your grain and let that recolonize in the tray (cover in clear plastic to see progress) once fully colonized put in FC with 95% Rh (misting) and light 12/12, temps between 68-81F and exchange the air 4-6 times a day and you should get fruits.
try wild bird seed or rye berries instead of Pcorn. with grain spawn (pcorn/wbs/rye) you want smaller size for more inoculation points for faster colonization which leaves more nutrients for fruiting and less chance for contams to grow b4 your mushies do.
click the link in my sig for some visual references on spawning to bulk substrates in monotubs/trays (doesnt matter the container if you provide optimal conditions).
-------------------- A M U Click here ^ for the AMU forum VVV AMUs Free Active/Edible/Exotic Spore Print or Syringe or Edible Culture Trade Thread VVV "Man is the sex organ of the machine world" ~ Marshall McLuhan
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Sockadin
Registered: 01/03/10
Posts: 7,248
Last seen: 19 days, 16 hours
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Re: Popcorn - 2nd attempt. Seeking Advice on Jars and pin induction. [Re: 13shrooms]
#12457656 - 04/26/10 01:18 AM (13 years, 11 months ago) |
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Ok so, What 13 shrooms said....
I was gonna respond, but he pretty much got it all there.
Popcorn is an interesting sub, but I definately wouldnt use unless I was going to case it because of the large kernal size, it makes it difficult to do anything else with.
Always get the widemouth, anything less is just a hassel.
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teknix
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Registered: 09/16/08
Posts: 11,953
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Re: Popcorn - 2nd attempt. Seeking Advice on Jars and pin induction. [Re: Sockadin]
#12457820 - 04/26/10 02:13 AM (13 years, 11 months ago) |
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Your suppose to break it up, you can just toss it in a tray with a thin layer of verm over it and it will fruit. Whole grains aren't for cakes. If you want better results spawn it to a bulk sub like mentioned.
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elliszero
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Re: Popcorn - 2nd attempt. Seeking Advice on Jars and pin induction. [Re: teknix]
#12460225 - 04/26/10 02:40 PM (13 years, 10 months ago) |
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Thanks for the quick and helpful advice guys. I think it's a little late to try spawning to coir (no way the gf would let me use hpoo!), as I heard them say that they had already cased it with the 50/50 mix, unless taking the casing material off the top and proceeding as your link indicates, 13shrooms.
Would this be worthwhile to try? Your "easy bulk monotub tek" with pictures is absolutely mind blowing!
-------------------- -elliszero
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13shrooms
Lightning Shaman
Registered: 01/01/09
Posts: 26,719
Loc: IN ETHERS TORSION FIELD
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Re: Popcorn - 2nd attempt. Seeking Advice on Jars and pin induction. [Re: elliszero]
#12460317 - 04/26/10 02:56 PM (13 years, 10 months ago) |
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you can take the casing layer off the top and mix in coir then let it recolonize if thats the only option at this point.
I have removed casing layers on bigger substrates to rehydrate/dunk then placed a new casing layer on after.
try to do it quickly cuz anytime you break up myc its more susceptible to contamination.
make sure your coir (or coir/verm mix) is at field capacity first b4 you mix with your Pcorn.
and credit goes to Citric for that mono tek. its one of my favs for sure.
-------------------- A M U Click here ^ for the AMU forum VVV AMUs Free Active/Edible/Exotic Spore Print or Syringe or Edible Culture Trade Thread VVV "Man is the sex organ of the machine world" ~ Marshall McLuhan
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bigcrackrock
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Registered: 02/26/10
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Re: Popcorn - 2nd attempt. Seeking Advice on Jars and pin induction. [Re: 13shrooms]
#12460363 - 04/26/10 03:04 PM (13 years, 10 months ago) |
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I let a little bit of coir colonize on top of some of my little popcorn cakes and they seem to be doing good. I think I ruined my first little trey doing the same thing though. It started pinning and mycelium grew all around the shrooms. I'm pretty sure it has stalled indefinitely but I'm gonna keep it in their until I need the space to see if anything happens.
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13shrooms
Lightning Shaman
Registered: 01/01/09
Posts: 26,719
Loc: IN ETHERS TORSION FIELD
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Re: Popcorn - 2nd attempt. Seeking Advice on Jars and pin induction. [Re: 13shrooms]
#12460386 - 04/26/10 03:08 PM (13 years, 10 months ago) |
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oh, a lil fyi, you can crumble pf-tek cakes (24-32 cakes = 6qts) to 1 brick of coir and 1-2qts verm and put that mix into trays or a monotub instead of just fruiting them as cakes if Pcorn doesnt work for ya.
-------------------- A M U Click here ^ for the AMU forum VVV AMUs Free Active/Edible/Exotic Spore Print or Syringe or Edible Culture Trade Thread VVV "Man is the sex organ of the machine world" ~ Marshall McLuhan
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elliszero
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Last seen: 13 years, 9 months
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Re: Popcorn - 2nd attempt. Seeking Advice on Jars and pin induction. [Re: 13shrooms]
#12460770 - 04/26/10 04:24 PM (13 years, 10 months ago) |
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Thanks for the input, bigcrackrock. I think the thing to do would be to buy a brick or two of coir then - after thinking about it and looking at the pictures in your blog, it seems too awesome not to try. I think maybe in this situation the way to go would be to wait for a completely different batch; the aforementioned people had two quart jars of Burma and one quartjar of Ecuador and, after putting them in the bread pans and casing, they lost track of which was which, so IF they went and did the coir spawn-to-bulk method, they would have to do three different small Tupperware ones so the strains don't mix (I think I've read that mixing strains in a spawn is a bad idea).
I think they are going to stick with corn at this point, it colonized so fast that the cakes are a last resort kind of thing. I think regardless of their outcome on the three-bread pan-setup, they will try they coco-coir spawn next go round.
Thanks for the replies! you guys are great!
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13shrooms
Lightning Shaman
Registered: 01/01/09
Posts: 26,719
Loc: IN ETHERS TORSION FIELD
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Re: Popcorn - 2nd attempt. Seeking Advice on Jars and pin induction. [Re: elliszero]
#12461016 - 04/26/10 05:01 PM (13 years, 10 months ago) |
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burma, ecuador, PE, B+ it doesnt matter they are all P.Cubensis strain and all have the same growth parameters.
the only downfall to mixing those would be that you couldnt tell which one you just grew from the others.
the names given to them are the substrain name usually given to them for the geographical location or the person that/they were origanally discovered in/by.
truly different strains would be Pan cyans - P.cubensis - P.Azures - ATL#7s
those strains you dont want to cross if you want success.
-------------------- A M U Click here ^ for the AMU forum VVV AMUs Free Active/Edible/Exotic Spore Print or Syringe or Edible Culture Trade Thread VVV "Man is the sex organ of the machine world" ~ Marshall McLuhan
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