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Offlineshroomer42
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Can you grow without lights?
    #12405026 - 04/16/10 04:56 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

For some reason the thread was locked because the guy didnt like others haveing a philosophical discussion about growing methods. But here is the new post.

This is a paraphrase of the website that I'm quoting:
"Q: Why are mushrooms grown in the dark?
A: Mushrooms are grown in the dark because they don’t need light. Mushrooms do not have chlorophyll, do not perform photosynthesis, and so do not need light. However, most modern mushroom growing rooms are well lit, for the safety of the workers" (2010, pa. 4, mushrooms).


Mushrooms: http://mushrooms.ca/media-pdf/MisunderstoodMushrooms.pdf

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OfflineNanoid
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Re: Can you grow without lights? [Re: shroomer42]
    #12405117 - 04/16/10 05:15 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Wow... Completely incorrect information.  Sure mushrooms don't have chlorophyll and don't need light for energy like plants do, but that doesn't mean they don't use light in other ways that is just as important.

It has been proven over and over that lighting (especially more blue 6500k lighting) is extremely beneficial to psilocybe cubensis mushrooms (and probably most others as well).  Proper lighting is one of the major pinning triggers.  It also gives the fruit bodies direction when they are fruiting.  They grow towards the light.

I love how the article says "most modern mushroom growing rooms are well lit, for the safety of the workers" Wow, what a bunch of idiots.  The person who wrote that obviously knows NOTHING about growing mushrooms.


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Edited by Nanoid (04/16/10 05:16 PM)

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Offlinelibertaire
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Re: Can you grow without lights? [Re: Nanoid]
    #12405147 - 04/16/10 05:19 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

I'm in discussion with the mod who closed it trying to get it open again.  Here's what I sent him, and was the only first hand account of it that I could find upon searching:

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/2305889#2305889

Fruited outdoors in a garbage can with the lid on, which means basically total darkness, very little light if any.  Looks pretty sweet if you ask me. 

If anyone can find a case (with pictures) where things didn't work, I'm all ears, but until then, you're basing your opinion on what people have said rather than actual experience.

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Invisible13shroomsM
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Re: Can you grow without lights? [Re: shroomer42]
    #12405177 - 04/16/10 05:25 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

thats just some bad info your quoting or really realy old cuz its been shown that 5min of direct sunlight a day during pinning will improve a pinset.

and if you have 56K lighting and rotate your FC at equal intervals during the day you will see the mushies lean towards the light giving you a spiral stemmed mushie. :mushroomgrow:

12on/off of 56k or natural room lighting (sun through the windows) is recommended for fruiting.

End of story.....

they will grow without light but your end result will be better with light rather than without. :sunny:

look up circadian rhythm for other factual info. :super:


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OfflineNanoid
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Re: Can you grow without lights? [Re: libertaire]
    #12405180 - 04/16/10 05:25 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

@ libertaire  - I am prone to take a extremely experienced growers word on this subject matter(RoadRunner) who has said VARIOUS times that proper light is important.

I think mushrooms CAN grow without light, but probably would be better if they had the right light.  I mean heck, if you let a colonized jar sit for long enough, it will pin... even in pitch black.  I know some of mine did. 

But given the choice, and KNOWING that mushrooms like to grow towards the light (I have witnessed this first hand) I would rather have the proper lighting to make sure everything goes well.


--------------------

Edited by Nanoid (04/16/10 05:26 PM)

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Offlinelibertaire
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Re: Can you grow without lights? [Re: Nanoid]
    #12405209 - 04/16/10 05:30 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Did you see the pictures in that thread though?  They even did a comparison with one fruited in light:



That's pretty similar to the one fruited in light, don't you think?  And the later flushes were even better.  I really don't think it's an issue.

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Re: Can you grow without lights? [Re: libertaire]
    #12405213 - 04/16/10 05:31 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Thats a very interesting technique. I'm no scientist but I think the mushrooms need shaded areas to grow in. When I would mushroom hunt I would find the morels under large leafed plants. They were usually in the shadows of anything growing near elm trees. So it stumps me but I guarantee there is some information on this. For now I must go write a paper but I will come back to this thread. Peace all

Quote:

libertaire said:
I'm in discussion with the mod who closed it trying to get it open again.  Here's what I sent him, and was the only first hand account of it that I could find upon searching:

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/2305889#2305889

Fruited outdoors in a garbage can with the lid on, which means basically total darkness, very little light if any.  Looks pretty sweet if you ask me. 

If anyone can find a case (with pictures) where things didn't work, I'm all ears, but until then, you're basing your opinion on what people have said rather than actual experience.



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Offlineshroomer42
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Re: Can you grow without lights? [Re: 13shrooms]
    #12405220 - 04/16/10 05:32 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Thats very interesting how they spiral. Where are your sources?




Quote:

13shrooms said:
thats just some bad info your quoting or really realy old cuz its been shown that 5min of direct sunlight a day during pinning will improve a pinset.

and if you have 56K lighting and rotate your FC at equal intervals during the day you will see the mushies lean towards the light giving you a spiral stemmed mushie. :mushroomgrow:

12on/off of 56k or natural room lighting (sun through the windows) is recommended for fruiting.

End of story.....

they will grow without light but your end result will be better with light rather than without. :sunny:

look up circadian rhythm for other factual info. :super:



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Invisible13shroomsM
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Re: Can you grow without lights? [Re: shroomer42]
    #12405228 - 04/16/10 05:33 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

my grow room. :getstoned:


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Re: Can you grow without lights? [Re: Nanoid]
    #12405241 - 04/16/10 05:35 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

I can totally understand your reasoning but where are the sources. No offence to any experienced grower but I dont know them or anybody else so i like to get my information for studies and documented observations versus someone that decided to post that I dont know. So if u can get the information then im all ears. no offence

Quote:

Nanoid said:
@ libertaire  - I am prone to take a extremely experienced growers word on this subject matter(RoadRunner) who has said VARIOUS times that proper light is important.

I think mushrooms CAN grow without light, but probably would be better if they had the right light.  I mean heck, if you let a colonized jar sit for long enough, it will pin... even in pitch black.  I know some of mine did. 

But given the choice, and KNOWING that mushrooms like to grow towards the light (I have witnessed this first hand) I would rather have the proper lighting to make sure everything goes well.



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Re: Can you grow without lights? [Re: libertaire]
    #12405256 - 04/16/10 05:38 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Wow, i went back and took a reexamination of that thread and that particular post. Thats some major pinning for being grown in the dark and it looks very hearty and healthy. Im going to have two grows going soon and will start my journal thread finally. Ill do the study myself lol i figured if i dug deep enough I would find something half way credible to go off of. Thanks for finding that post bud!



Quote:

libertaire said:
Did you see the pictures in that thread though?  They even did a comparison with one fruited in light:



That's pretty similar to the one fruited in light, don't you think?  And the later flushes were even better.  I really don't think it's an issue.



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Re: Can you grow without lights? [Re: shroomer42] * 1
    #12405272 - 04/16/10 05:42 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Also, since the forums here didn't provide any info on the subject, here's what hippie3 from mycotopia would have to say about it:

"ANY light for even just a few seconds duration on a regular basis [daily] will trigger pinning.
more does help the shrooms grow straight up instead of any old direction, but light has no other effect than that.
just don't use blacklights. "

http://archives.mycotopia.net/discus/messages/5/27616.html?1054856954

"i see more correlation between pinning and the brightness of the light than i do with the light duration/interval.
so my hypothesis would be that your proposed schedule would give equal yields assuming the light was bright.
a dim light gives a much weaker pinning response and so cutting its' duration would seem likely to make pinning even worse."

http://archives.mycotopia.net/discus/messages/5/31776.html?1062245253

And finally, a post I found which I think answers the question once and for all:

"Here is the deal... shrooms are phototropic... they only use light as a stimulus. The stimulus (in this case) tells the fungus that it is above ground and it's time to fruit (spread the seeds (spores).

Plants... on the other hand, photosynthesize... meaning they convert the light to energy."
http://archives.mycotopia.net/discus/messages/5/2841.html?1036468034#

Words to look up: Phototropism, Photosynthesis

Those should provide a better understanding I hope.  :grin:

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OfflineNanoid
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Re: Can you grow without lights? [Re: shroomer42]
    #12405283 - 04/16/10 05:45 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

shroomer42 said:
I can totally understand your reasoning but where are the sources. No offence to any experienced grower but I dont know them or anybody else so i like to get my information for studies and documented observations versus someone that decided to post that I dont know. So if u can get the information then im all ears. no offence

Quote:

Nanoid said:
@ libertaire  - I am prone to take a extremely experienced growers word on this subject matter(RoadRunner) who has said VARIOUS times that proper light is important.

I think mushrooms CAN grow without light, but probably would be better if they had the right light.  I mean heck, if you let a colonized jar sit for long enough, it will pin... even in pitch black.  I know some of mine did. 

But given the choice, and KNOWING that mushrooms like to grow towards the light (I have witnessed this first hand) I would rather have the proper lighting to make sure everything goes well.







Well, how many grows have you done with shrooms growing perfectly fine in pitch black? With ABSOLUTELY no light whatsoever (even from a camera flash)?.  From injection, to colonization, to birthing, to end of the last fruiting harvest, no light at all...  You would need to conduct everything under night vision (even that is unacceptable for a true 'no light' scenario.

I would think that the experienced growers have learned that mushrooms benefit from light from their own personal EXPERIENCE.  What do you think this all is, a placebo effect?  Some kind of hoax?  Somebody some day just decided that mushrooms like light and spread that info around all of the forums over the net in some kind of conspiracy to mess with peoples heads?


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Re: Can you grow without lights? [Re: shroomer42] * 1
    #12405287 - 04/16/10 05:45 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

heres my resource for all I know about lighting.  RRs (mod and TC for years) notes posted here on shroomery. (utsf) :grin:

RR says:
Quote:

LIGHTING





*Light has absolutely NOTHING to do with telling the mycelium that it has reached the surface. The increased fresh air, with the corresponding drop in CO2 levels sends the mycelium that message.
Light is also NOT just to establish the direction the fruits grow. In fact, air currents have a greater effect on direction of growth than light. If you doubt this, place a fan on your crop and watch.
A few seconds of light per day will NOT help to generate a good pinset. In fact, light is a secondary pinning trigger, but an important one. The difference between three or four pins, and hundreds of pins on a substrate can be directly correlated to the length, intensity, and frequency of the light applied, provided the primary pinning triggers have been fulfilled.
The light needs to be intense enough to penetrate 1/2" into the substrate. Not all pins form on the surface. Many originate from deeper in the substrate or casing layer.
Higher frequency light above a color temperature of 5,000 Kelvin will generate far more pins than a 'red' source of light such as incandescent lamps.
Fungi are a living organism that is much more closely related to mammals such as humans, than to plants. People need to quit looking at mycelium as a different kind of plant, which it isn't. Mycelium has been shown to have circadian rhythms just like mammals, and this is the reason that 12/12 light cycles work best. This planet, and all surface life on it are based on the 24-hour day. For best results, learn to work with nature rather than against it. Mycelium has an amazing ability to cope with less than optimal conditions, and will often fruit when a grower does everything wrong. However, do everything right and watch your performance go through the roof.
*Recent experiments (over the last 23 years) have shown the error of that statement in TMC. Many experiments have shown conclusively that fluorescent lamps in the 6500K range produce better pinsets and healthier, meatier fruits than other forms of light. Stamets himself does not repeat that 'flash of light' triggers pinning nonsense. In fact, he recommends fluorescent lamps in the 6,500-Kelvin range for 12/12 just as I do. In addition, there's a huge difference in saying something can result in 'pins', and helping to trigger a very nice flush.
Light, and the intensity/frequency of light is extremely important if one is interested in greater than mediocre performance. Many species, such as agaricus and P cubensis, can pin in the total absence of light. That doesn't mean light isn't required for best results, especially with light sensitive species such as P cubensis and P ostreatus. TMC FAULT, LIGHTING, WHY



*You want full spectrum light for best results. Indirect light from a window is fine. Hyphal knot formation is stimulated more by light at the higher end of the scale than at the lower end of the scale. A color temperature of around 6500K is just about perfect. This is the color produced by 'natural daylight fluorescent' tubes. For the geeks, I'll explain color temperature briefly. We all know when we heat a piece of metal, it first begins to glow red. We see this when we heat a syringe needle over a flame. If we continue to heat it, the metal will eventually glow white hot. As we heat it more and more the white color begins to take on a blue hue, provided the metal doesn't melt down into a puddle first. This is why tungsten in a vacuum is often used for light bulb filaments.
The Kelvin color temperature system is essentially the color a piece of dark metal will glow when heated to a specific temperature. The Kelvin scale starts at absolute zero, roughly -237C. This is Zero K. The scale follows the Celsius temperature scale and remains constant. Therefore, water freezes at 237K and boils at 337K. If you heat a piece of metal to a temperature of 4,763C, the resulting glow will have a color temperature of 5,000K. The color scale is used as 'corrected' color temperature when fluorescent or other gas type lighting fixtures are used. A 'natural daylight' fluorescent tube with a color temperature of 6500K would glow with the same color as a dark object heated to a temperature of 6,263C.
Color temperature is not an indication of the intensity of light, only its color. Mycelium forms fruits best with light at the 'blue' end of the spectrum, thus a higher color temperature is required for best performance. Look for lighting with a high color temperature such as fluorescent. Cool white fluorescent has a color temperature of 5,000K and natural daylight has a color temperature of 6,500K. Avoid UV light that is too high, and has been known to damage mycelium, as well as cause mutations, and cancer in humans.
Incandescent light bulbs by contrast, have a color temperature of around 3000K, which puts them in the 'red' end of the spectrum, and they are the worst choice for fruiting mushrooms. WHAT YOU WANT!



*Many things. I've found the brightest light stimulates more pins. You need to look at pinning triggers like the instruments in a band. One instrument can be slightly off, and the band still plays the song. Often one instrument can be taken away and the music still sounds ok. However, if all are working together, it's awesome.
Perhaps the projects you remove from light after exposure are maintaining a higher humidity due to no heat from the lights. Humidity is a pinning trigger just like light. Maybe the ones you remove from the lights get better air circulation. Fresh air is a pinning trigger just like light.
For the record, light has no effect on colonizing mycelium, good or bad. The old advice of "incubate in total darkness" is bunk. Stamets wrote those words in TMC 20 years ago, and he disavows that advice today. I concur. The only real time that keeping in the dark has an advantage in my experience is during casing run, when the introduction of light after casing colonization can serve as one of the pinning triggers along with air exchange and proper humidity. Bare in mind, you want a constant rate of evaporation from your substrate to achieve the best pinset. If you're at 100% humidity, there will be little to no moisture evaporating from your casing layer, and pinsets will suffer.
To repeat, light is a pinning trigger, but it isn't the only one, and it's greatly overrated. For the best pinsets, you have to balance several triggers at once. Screw up on any of them, and pinsets suffer, regardless of what you do with light. LIGHTING



*Normal room lighting has no effect on colonizing mycelium, either good or bad. This is one of the old myths perpetuated by stamets 'The Mushroom Cultivator', that was incorrect 20 years ago when it was written. He corrected his own mistake in GGMM, but fewer people have read that one because it centers more on edibles, than on psilocybe mushrooms. My own research says light doesn't make one whit of difference to colonizing mycelium in jars. The time to protect from light is during spawn run of bulk substrates and casing layers. During the initial colonization of grains or brf cakes, it doesn't matter. Light is required for primordia formation as well. Bulk substrate colonization is the last step prior to fruiting. The only reason for keeping a bulk substrate, and especially the casing layer dark during colonization is for the timing of the pinset initiation. It allows you to introduce all the major pinning triggers simultaneously, resulting in an explosion of pins. A bulk substrate will colonize just fine if exposed to light from day one, but then you aren't maximizing potential by synchronizing the pinning triggers. LIGHTING

*TMC is a classic and I still refer to it a lot. In the last twenty years we've learned a few things though. One, as hyphae said is the mycelium metabolite. Another is that colonizing mycelium need not be kept in total darkness. I think Paul fixed that one in GGMM, but I know at his beginners and masters seminars he points that out, and his own incubation rooms filled with hundreds of species, are under 8 to 12 hours per day of fluorescent lighting while work is being done. That has been my experience as well. Light doesn't become a significant pinning trigger prior to full colonization and the introduction of fresh air exchange. This one is probably nitpicking, but I don't like the TMC method of preparing grain jars which is add dry grain, add water and a pinch of gypsum, and PC. We now know that if you'll take the time to rinse the grains very well before cooking, they don't stick and clump up later. There's a couple of others I can't think of now. Nothing major though. It's a great reference work. TMC FAULTS LIGHTING

*While enough light to read by might give a minimum pinset, you want bright, high frequency light to induce a massive pinset. An hour or two in a window with even direct sunlight is great to kick start a pinset, but don't let the tub overheat. For the rest of the cycle, find a way to get the fluorescent to shine through the clear part of the tub. Put the light in front of or behind the tub. It doesn't have to come just from the top. The white lid will reflect side light down just fine. My entire greenhouse is lit from the back with fluorescent fixtures attached to the wall the greenhouse sits against. Cool white fluorescents produce 5000k, which is very close to natural sunlight. Incadescents are a much redder light and only produce at around 3200k, which is not nearly as effective. You want high frequency light for best results. The natural daylight fluorescents are the best, putting out light at around 7000k, but are much more expensive than cool white. Good luck. LIGHTING

*While enough light to read by might give a minimum pinset, you want bright, high frequency light to induce a massive pinset. An hour or two in a window with even direct sunlight is great to kickstart a pinset, but don't let the tub overheat. For the rest of the cycle, find a way to get the fluorescent to shine through the clear part of the tub. Put the light in front of or behind the tub. It doesn't have to come just from the top. The white lid will reflect side light down just fine. My entire greenhouse is lit from the back with fluorescent fixtures attached to the wall the greenhouse sits against. Cool white fluorescents produce 5000k, which is very close to natural sunlight. Incadescents are a much redder light and only produce at around 3200k, which is not nearly as effective. You want high frequency light for best results. The natural daylight fluorescents are the best, putting out light at around 7000k, but are much more expensive than cool white. LIGHTING

*Plants require much more light than mushrooms because they derive energy from the light source. In addition, most mj growers switch to a redder light at fruiting time, not the high frequency 'blue' light we get from our fluorescents. Perhaps you're confusing the Kelvin color temperature scale with intensity? My fluorescent fixture provides light to six shelves, each one eight feet long and three feet deep. That's 144 square feet, thus less than 1 watt per square foot of shelf space. The foil helps to prevent the trays in the back from being shaded by those in front. I challenge the best mj grower in the world to try to grow plants under that. Compact fluorescent bulbs work great as well for fruiting chambers and mini-greenhouses. In addition, LED technology has progressed considerably in the last few years. I'm sure it won't be long before LED fixtures are made with controllers to adjust color temperature. LIGHTING FREQUENCIES, PLANT LIGHTS

*"Of course myc doesn't need dark but we use it to our advantage as a pinning trigger"
Exactly. After spawning the grains or brf or whatever into manure, it's a good idea to cover with foil to keep it in the dark during substrate colonization and casing colonization, and then remove the foil for light and sudden air/gas exchange to trigger pinning. However, I've found no benefit or harm from allowing the grain jars to be exposed to light from day one. If a few pins form in the grains, it is actually a good thing. Contrary to popular belief, a few pins in the grains can be spawned right into the manure or straw (or used in grain to grain transfers) and they do not rot or otherwise cause contamination. There is evidence they actually help to give a faster, more uniform pinset in the eventual flushes. Stamets believes it's the hormones or other chemical triggers in the pins that do this. LIGHTING

*Plants require much more light than mushrooms because they derive energy from the light source. In addition, most mj growers switch to a redder light at fruiting time, not the high frequency 'blue' light we get from our fluorescents. Perhaps you're confusing the Kelvin color temperature scale with intensity? My fluorescent fixture provides light to six shelves, each one eight feet long and three feet deep. That's 144 square feet, thus less than 1 watt per square foot of shelf space. The foil helps to prevent the trays in the back from being shaded by those in front. I challenge the best mj grower in the world to try to grow plants under that. Compact fluorescent bulbs work great as well for fruiting chambers and mini-greenhouses. In addition, LED technology has progressed considerably in the last few years. I'm sure it won't be long before LED fixtures are made with controllers to adjust color temperature. LIGHTING

*Recent experiments (over the last 23 years) have shown the error of that statement in TMC. Many experiments have shown conclusively that fluorescent lamps in the 6500K range produce better pinsets and healthier, meatier fruits than other forms of light. Stamets himself does not repeat that 'flash of light' triggers pinning nonsense. In fact, he recommends fluorescent lamps in the 6,500-Kelvin range for 12/12 just as I do. In addition, there's a huge difference in saying something can result in 'pins', and helping to trigger a very nice flush. Light, and the intensity/frequency of light is extremely important if one is interested in greater than mediocre performance. Many species, such as agaricus and P cubensis, can pin in the total absence of light. That doesn't mean light isn't required for best results, especially with light sensitive species such as P cubensis and P ostreatus. LIGHTING

*Light is very important after full colonization, when an increase in FAE is made. Enough light to 'see the tray' is absolutely NOT enough light unless you're happy with shitty pinsets. Brighter light is better. Higher frequency (blue) light such as is emitted by 'natural daylight fluorescent' tubes which produce light at 6500K are best from mine and Stamets tests. Cool white fluorescent tubes would be a second, lower cost choice and will work fine. Incandescent bulbs which emit 'red' light at 3000K are the worst choice. In addition, 24-hour light is extremely counter productive because hyphal knots form, and the fruit bodies seem to grow the most during the period of darkness. You can all prove that by simply measuring your growing mushrooms when you turn the light on, and again when you shut it off. You'll find growth is higher during the dark phase. LIGHTING

*Use full spectrum light, or a light that is in the higher frequency range. Don't use 'blue' lights or a 'blue' tub. Such is not in any way, shape, or form what the mycelium needs to perform well. The use of 'blue' led's or blue tubs is based on a misunderstanding of what Stamets was talking about in GGMM when he recommended high frequency lights, such as natural daylight fluorescent. This has all been covered ad-nauseam in previous light threads. It absolutely amazes me that people still repeat the 'any light will do' or 'if you can see, your mushrooms have enough light', or 'only a few minutes is enough' etc., etc. If one is satisfied with shitty pinsets, the above is true. If you're less than satisfied with shitty pinsets, use a light in the 6,500-Kelvin range. Incandescent grow lights are one of the worst possible choices. LIGHTING

*At full colonization, light becomes very important. The only real time you need to put your trays in the dark is during casing run. This allows the casing layer to colonize partially without the additional pinning trigger of light acting on it. At the proper time, you expose to light, increase FAE, and have full colonization all at the same time. This results in the best possible pinset. Read Hyphae's pinning strategy in his sig for more information on timing these events. There is no point in putting it into the dark now that it's already pinning. The fluoros you have will be plenty, but try to attach or hang them higher so they can give better direction to the fruits as they grow. It will also help hyphal knots to form if you'll have the light above the casing layer because it will penetrate deeper into it, thus helping to trigger knots. Good luck. LIGHTING

*Light is extremely important to good mushroom formation, and it's nothing to do with which way is up. Gravity takes care of that function. The post quoted above is only one of many times I've typed that. The problem is every time this question gets asked, people repeat the same 'stuff they've read' and thus if one of us fails to catch the misinformation, then somebody gets a grow compromised by using a desk lamp or some other less than desirable lighting source, rather than the best possible lighting. There's enough confusing points in mushroom growing to keep a board like this busy forever. Ask about things you're not sure of, or of the details you don't understand after searching. However, for the basic questions, the answers are all right here at your fingertips. Good luck to all. I'll try to be less pissy. LIGHTING

*In my experience, it's better to expose to light from day one. If you'll just let your bags or jars colonize on a shelf in a room of your house, they'll be exposed to normal room light. This will help to initiate pinning as soon as the substrate is ready to support fruitbodies. Colonizing your jars in the dark only delays pinning, and delay is not good in this hobby. Get light on it right away. I seriously disagree with keeping cubie mycelium in the dark at any time. I expose to light from the time the spores germinate on agar. Sometimes there are even a few pins in the jars when I break them up for the casing. That is no problem. Just mix them in and case it. If you give light from day one, your yields will go up, and you won't face overlay problems. EXPOSING LIGHT FROM DAY ONE

*Lighting is EXTREMELY important for a good pinset. Cubes will fruit in very low light conditions, but bright fluorescent light will help to trigger the pinsets the old timers show all the time that makes folks drool. Actually, you're probably right. The mushrooms don't care that much about light, but the mycelium sure as heck does. Lights, especially fluorescent, should be outside the terrarium, but near enough to flood the fruiting chamber in bright, high frequency light. Don't put the ballast outside and the lamps inside. The tombstones have a fairly high voltage potential across them, and wrapping a warm item in plastic in a wet environment is . . .dumb. There isn't much more useless than 'blue' mood lights, especially from led's. LIGHTING

*There's a world of difference between 'blue spectrum' and what you get when a red light (incandescent) shines through blue plastic. (Dim) By 'blue' they mean high frequency light, such as would be emitted by a metal halide bulb, or natural sunlight fluorescent. You'll want to get better lighting to get the best pinsets. It's better than nothing, but only ten percent of the electricity to run an incandescent is turned into light. The other ninety percent is turned into heat. Fluorescent fixtures are the opposite. 90% of the energy is turned into light and ten percent into heat. They're also closer to the frequency that is ideal for pinning.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/6611363#6611363 LIGHTING

*All lights will produce heat. The light needs to be outside the fruiting chamber. Electricity and 100% humidity don't mix. Don't use blue Christmas lights. They're NOT the correct color temperature. By 'blue' we mean light at the high end of the spectrum. It will still look white to your eyes. As said, 6500 Kelvin fluorescent lights give the best bang for your buck. They're usually labeled 'natural daylight' on the package, as opposed to 'cool white' which are 5,000K and 'warm white' or 'kitchen and bath' which are 3000K, which is referred to as 'red' light, even though they still look white to our eyes. You can also simply place the terrarium in a room with a bright window and let the natural sunlight do the job. LIGHTING

*2700K are awfully red. It might be nice for room light and for reading because it's 'warm', but you want light in the bluer end of the spectrum, so shoot for a frequency above 5,000 Kelvin. Lumens do matter to an extent. We're not deriving energy from the light, but it does need to be bright enough to penetrate into the casing layer. Bright fluorescent light from a 'daylight' type tube seems to help generate the best pinsets over a wide range of species. I have a four-tube 48" fluorescent fixture with 6500-Kelvin tubes in all four slots. This light is plenty for my mini-greenhouse. I have it hanging from the ceiling so it shines into the front of the greenhouse. Reflective foil is on the back wall of the GH. LIGHTING

*It sounds like something else growing in the area. MH is known to cause early pinning in jars because of the high frequency light output of MH. However HPS is more of a red light at the lower end of the spectrum, so it shouldn't be that bad. I'd still move the jars away from it. The heat could cause problems. There is no need to keep colonizing jars in the dark, but there is also no need to expose them to very bright lights either. When fruiting time comes, you'll probably do better to get a natural daylight fluorescent. The 6500K color temperature seems to stimulate primordia formation better than the lower color temperatures of lamps such as incandescent and HPS. LIGHTING

*You want bright light for 12 hours per day, not normal room light, which is usually at the red end of the spectrum if it's from incandescent bulbs, and is the worst possible choice. Incandescent bulbs produce light at 3000K. Cool white fluorescents are a higher frequency light and perform much better, with a color temperature of 5000K, and natural daylight fluorescent produce light at the 'blue' end of the spectrum with a color temperature of 6500K. You don't want blue lights. Light at the high (blue) end of the spectrum will look white to your eyes. You don't get high frequency light by using a bulb with a blue dye on the lens. LIGHTING

*Not at all. They will do best with 12 hours of light. I'd put them in the dark when they're about 90% colonized, then when they are at 100%, birth and begin giving them light at that time. This allows the four major pinning triggers of full colonization, steady rate of evaporation from the substrate, fresh air exchange, and light to all happen at the same time. Such has been shown to give the best pinsets. Light does not become a significant pinning trigger until the other factors have also been met. Many growers dunk at the time of birthing to pump the moisture content up for the first flush. LIGHTING

*Light has neither good nor ill effects on growing mushroom mycelium. It will not hurt, nor help, but there is no need to keep your jars in the dark. Stamets makes this clear in GGMC. He used to recommend incubation in total darkness (TMC), but he no longer recommends this. I concur. If you visit fungi perfect you will see he has 10,000 square feet of incubation space that is exposed to overhead fluorescent lights during the full workday. My jars sit on a shelf in an open room as said above and they're exposed to light from the day spores are started. TMC FAULT, LIGHTING

*The Kelvin scale refers to the color temperature of the light. Briefly stated, if you took a piece of white paper and looked at it under 2,000K such as you'd get from hps, it would look yellow. If you looked at it under 5,000K fluorescent tubes such as you'd find in an office or school classroom, it would look white. If you look at it under 7,500K fluorescent, it would have a blue tint to it. That's what is meant by 'blue' light. You can pick up an inexpensive fluorescent fixture and 7500K fluorescent tubes fairly cheaply at your local hardware store. LIGHTING

*My current setup is a larger fluorescent fixture that holds four 48" tubes, and I have it hanging vertically so it shines in from the front to bathe all five shelves in bright light. I have it about 12" from the door of the GH, so the farthest any substrate is from the light is about 36". The fruits tend to grow toward the light a bit, but that problem is fixed by rotating the trays 180 degrees every couple of days so growth is even. I'm glad to see you got the right frequency of light. 6500K are awesome. You'll never go back to silly night-lights or cool white fluorescent after using one of those. They really do make a difference in pinsets. LIGHTING

*I've still never seen a 150-watt cfl that small. At any rate, with multiple shelves or long shelves, tubes will spread the light out better, thus giving more coverage. I use 5 shelves in my mini-greenhouse, with a 48" fixture hanging vertically in front of the unit, which holds four fluorescent tubes with a color temperature of 6,500K. By hanging the light fixture vertically, the fixture lights the entire greenhouse between all shelves. With only one bulb, you're limited in coverage. They'd be great for tubs and the like, but there is no need for 250 watts. It will burn five or more times the electricity your projects require. LIGHTING

*They do care if they don't get air. You'll get a very poor pinset without several air exchanges per day at the very least. Four to five per hour are recommended. Water beads on the inside of the terrarium have NOTHING to do with humidity. They indicate a temperature differential, nothing else. You want your light outside the terrarium. Fluorescent ballasts generate a high voltage, and that doesn't go with near saturation humidity at all. In addition, a fluorescent ballast and light inside will heat your terrarium a lot. It will be over 90F in there within a few hours. Also, the heat will lower humidity, not raise it. LIGHTING

*Mushrooms grow towards the light. Very true. However, as an experiment, you can put the light above and a fan blowing from right to left. Watch what happens. In the absence of any wind, the mushrooms grow towards the light. You can also screw with your mushrooms if you're bored. Every morning, rotate your trays of pinning/fruiting mushrooms by 90 degrees, and leave them until the next morning, then rotate them an additional 90 degrees. They'll grow up in a spiral. LIGHTING

*You can't argue that light makes a big difference with growers that are happy with crappy pinsets. However, if you want the best pinset and growth you can get, and then use bright light with a color temperature of 5,000 Kelvin to 7500 Kelvin. Of course, there's other parameters that are just as important, if not more important than light. Failure to pay attention to ALL the pinning triggers is like trying to win the Indy 500 with a clogged up air filter or dirty spark plugs. LIGHTING

*It's true that they tend to grow more during the period of darkness, but that's only part of the equation. The other part is that pins for second, third, and future flushes often form during the time of first flush. If you go cheapie on the light after the first flush is set, you hinder primordia development for future flushes. Mushroom mycelium has circadian rhythms just like humans. Give them a day/night cycle and they'll be much happier over the course of several flushes. LIGHTING

*One, a 25W incandescent bulb only puts out the amount of light that a 2.5W fluorescent bulb would put out. Over 90% of the electricity used by a light bulb goes toward making heat, and only 10% of the electricity goes toward making light. With fluorescent, that ratio is reversed. In addition, incandescent bulbs put out light at the red end of the spectrum, and fluorescent lamps put out light near the blue end of the spectrum, which is much better for fungi. LIGHTING

*I've been saying for years that both light and total darkness are vastly overrated when it comes to mushroom growing. Some strains seem to be better at pinning in low light conditions, while others require much more. The other pinning triggers of full colonization, steady evaporation of moisture, and air exchange are much more critical than light. As a general rule however, pinsets will be better with bright, full spectrum lighting over dim/darker conditions. LIGHTING

*The reason intensity is important is because the light needs to penetrate the casing layer to the substrate below. Frequency is also important with light at the higher end of the spectrum, such as natural daylight fluorescent with a light temperature between 6,000K and 7,500K providing the best results. Cool white fluorescent tubes are generally in the 5,000 Kelvin range, and regular incandescent bulbs run about 3,000K, which is the worst possible choice. LIGHTING

*They need light for much more than to know which way is up. A lot has been written about this. Bright, intense light is going to stimulate a much better pinset than dim, low light. 12/12 has shown over the years to give the best performance. I don't even have my lights on a timer anymore unless I go out of town. I plug them in when I get up, and unplug them sometime in the evening. They rarely get exactly 12/12, but close. LIGHTING

*Bright, high frequency light at 12/12 will deliver the most prolific pinsets. You want maximum FAE, high humidity, and bright light, especially with cased substrates. The light needs to be bright enough to penetrate the casing layer for best results. 'Some' pins will form with low levels of light, but if you want the WOW factor, use bright fluorescent light or sunlight from a window. They do best with a period of darkness each day. LIGHTING

*Light has little to no effect on colonizing mycelium. I expose all jars to light from day one. I also incubate on a shelf in an open room at room temperature. If you visit fungi perfecti, you'll see that stamets has 10,000 square feet of incubation area, all of it exposed to fluorescent lights for 8 to 10 hours per day. He no longer recommends incubation in total darkness as he did 20 years ago when he wrote TMC. I concur. TMC FAULT, LIGHTING

*Two things. First, don't install lights inside a terrarium. Even a small light will create heat that causes other problems. Second, if it's incandescent, it's the wrong color temperature. You want a high frequency light such as natural daylight fluorescent for best results. Simply hang it above the terrarium. Bright, intense, high frequency light provides the best pinsets, so get a good one. I use four, 4' natural daylight fluorescent tubes. LIGHTING

*Many fluorescent tubes will have the light temperature stamped on them at the end. Cool white bulbs are in the neighborhood of 5000k while the kitchen and bath fluorescent tubes are warm white, and at 3000K, similar to regular light bulbs. The higher 'k' numbers will deliver better pinsets, because they match outdoor sunlight closer. Fortunately for us, cool white fluorescent which is superior, is also the least expensive. LIGHTING

*UV light strong enough to STERILZE will F/U your eyes, skin, cause cancer & other BS. If it is contained, as in well sheilded..... it works great, but you still need filtration. Best is hepa filter run into UV light sheilded in metal ductwork. Instance I refered to was UV light in metal ductwork behind filter, because it killed anything that got past the filter. The ductwork fed into a "clean" room area & it was fully sheilded. UV LIGHTING

*Natural Daylight fluorescent has been shown to produce the best results. Your milage will vary depending on the genetics of your strain using other types of lights. However, mushroom primordia seem to develop best in the 5,000 Kelvin to 7,500 Kelvin range which is exactly what is delivered by most fluorescent tubes. The Natural Daylight tubes are rated between 6,500 and 7,500 Kelvin depending on manufacturer. LIGHTING

*Brighter lighting will work better than dim, far away lighting. The light needs to penetrate the casing layer. Don't listen to those who say if you can see what's happening, there is enough light. That is incorrect. You can get small fluorescent fixtures intended for under kitchen cabinets for less than ten dollars. Put one a few inches above your plexiglass. Put it high enough that heat isn't transferred, but bright light is. LIGHTING

*The only reason for keeping a bulk substrate, and especially the casing layer dark during colonization is for the timing of the pinset initiation. It allows you to introduce all the major pinning triggers simultaneously, resulting in an explosion of pins. A bulk substrate will colonize just fine if exposed to light from day one, but then you aren't maximizing potential by synchronizing the pinning triggers. LIGHTING

*If you're going to use LED's, use white ones. Your mushrooms need full spectrum light, not mood light, and some evidence points to light at the higher end of the spectrum being somewhat better at setting primordia. Bright light will penetrate deeper into the casing layer, stimulating more pins than dim light. Avoid lights that produce excess heat such as incadescent or halogen. LIGHTING

*The color temperature(not light temperature) of any specialty bulb should be stamped on the package. Normal incandescents are in the 3000K range, which is too low. HPS is even worse, in the 2000K range. You want light at the other end of the spectrum. Cool white fluorescent is around 5000K and natural daylight fluorescent is 6500K, making it the best choice for the money. LIGHTING

*I said use 6,500 Kelvin natural daylight fluorescent for best results. There is no contradiction. Mushroom cultivation was in its infancy 25 years ago. We've learned a lot since then. Lamps with a color temperature of 6,500 Kelvin are NOT low frequency-they're considered 'blue' light. Use natural daylight fluorescent with a color temperature of 6,500 Kelvin for best results. LIGHTING

*Use natural daylight fluorescent with a color temperature of 6,500 Kelvin for best results. I said use 6,500 Kelvin natural daylight fluorescent for best results. There is no contradiction. Mushroom cultivation was in its infancy 25 years ago. We've learned a lot since then. Lamps with a color temperature of 6,500 Kelvin are NOT low frequency-they're considered 'blue' light. LIGHTING

*Normal room light has no effect on colonizing mycelium, either good or bad. Usually, when mycelium stalls, it's due to lack of air exchange. If you have a verm filter, take the lid all the way off for a few minutes and then put it back on. If the mycelium starts to grow again, you know that was the problem. Make sure the inoculation/gas exchange holes are open. LIGHTING

*Correct. A 60 watt light bulb on the ceiling is enough to trigger a few pins. Failure to use proper lighting doesn't mean the entire project is going to fail. It simply means it will be less than what could be achieved by a tad more work. It's sort of like driving your car with one tire flat. You'll still get there, but not as fast, and people will point and giggle. LIGHTING

*Xmas lights have been used for yeats with poor to mediocre results. Don't put too much faith in the experiment done several years ago. Many, many tests since then have shown otherwise. Most any light will stimulate some pins to form, but the higher frequency lights in the 5,000 Kelvin to 7,500 Kelvin range will help to provide the best pinset possible. LIGHTING

*Yes you do. They require light right up until harvest. It provides direction for growth. In fact, many species such as oysters will turn into a mass of coral without adequate light. Shiitake won't grow at all. Cubes without light will twist around, not knowing which way to grow. Performance will suffer. 12/12 right up until harvest is the proper procedure. LIGHTING

*Even MH is at the 'red' end of the spectrum, just not as red as the old SV or HPS. MH has a color temperature of around 4,000K and HPS is around 2000K, but cool white fluorescent is 5,000K and natural daylight fluorescent is 6500K. Regular household light bulbs are around 3000K. The higher the color temperature in Kelvin, the more 'blue' the light is. LIGHTING

*I've measured many flushes of various species on a day to day basis and found that most mushrooms grow more during the period of darkness than during the period of light. The change in temperature caused by cycling the lights 12/12 is also positive. Mushrooms are not plants, but as said above, light does indeed have a major effect on them. LIGHTING

*The main pinning triggers are full colonization, an increase in fresh air that comes with the decrease in CO2 levels, and a steady rate of evaporation from the substrate. Once those conditions have been met, light becomes a secondary pinning trigger. A few minutes of light will work, but 12/12 has been shown to produce superior product. LIGHTING

*That's why growers who use a very bright fluorescent light in the higher part of the color spectrum have much better pinsets and yields than those who use ambient room, or worse yet, only a few minutes a day of dim light. The light should be bright enough to penetrate well into the casing layer, which should also be loose and airy. LIGHTING

*Light is only a secondary pinning trigger, not the main one. Full colonization of the substrate, with an increase in air exchange are the two biggies. For best results, all the pinning triggers should be introduced at once. You'll have to say more than 'kit' to get help, and 'dirt' is what you get under your fingernails. Mushrooms don't grow on it. LIGHTING

*They require light right up until harvest. It provides direction for growth. In fact, many species such as oysters will turn into a mass of coral without adequate light. Shiitake won't grow at all. Cubes without light will twist around, not knowing which way to grow. Performance will suffer. 12/12 right up until harvest is the proper procedure. LIGHTING

*Light at the higher end of the spectrum is far superior to light at the low end of the spectrum. Incandescent light bulbs with a color temperature of 3,000 kelvin are considered 'red', and natural daylight fluorescent with a color temperature of 6,500 kelvin are considered 'blue' which is superior. Search the above terms for much more. LIGHTING

*Lots of people are satisified with 'less' light. It's just that if you want the best possible results, go with the best of all possible setups, which means best light, best substrate, best temperature, best humidity, etc. By all means if anyone is satisifed with less, go for it. Many of use raise growing to an artform, but not all. To each his own. LIGHTING

*Just use a plain fluorescent bulb, and keep it above the terrarium, not inside it. Heat isn't an issue that way. As said, there's a big difference between short wavelength light(blue spectrum) and a light that makes your walls 'look' blue. However, the whole blue light thing is overrated. Use a full spectrum lamp. LIGHTING FRUITING

*All you need to do is rotate your tubs every day or two to offset the light from an angle. Even if you don't, it's cool to see them grow towards the light. There's really no reason they need to grow straight up, and growing at an angle actually gives the caps more room to spread out without interferring with each other. LIGHTING

*Just use a plain fluorescent bulb, and keep it above the terrarium, not inside it. Heat isn't an issue that way. As said, there's a big difference between short wavelength light(blue spectrum) and a light that makes your walls 'look' blue. However, the whole blue light thing is overrated. Use a full spectrum lamp. LIGHTING

*If it's incandescent, it's the wrong color temperature. You want a high frequency light such as natural daylight fluorescent for best results. Simply hang it above the terrarium. Bright, intense, high frequency light provides the best pinsets, so get a good one. I use four, 4' natural daylight fluorescent tubes. LIGHTING

*What you're giving is great. There are no hard and fast rules. Some experienced folks give more light, some less, but all get great pinsets, so don't worry too much about light. A few hours a day is fine, so placing your project near a window where it gets diffused sunlight, but no direct sunlight is ideal. LIGHTING

*You want lights that are high in the color spectrum, thus a color temperature of 6500 to 7000 Kelvin works great. It will look bright white to your eyes. Christmas lights are a poor choice. They do have some full spectrum LED's out now, or you can use 'natural daylight' compact fluorescent lamps. LIGHTING

*If a light 'looks' blue to your naked eye, it means the blue has been filtered out of the spectrum. It's counterproductive. The blue light is at the high frequency end of the spectrum. The best source of blue light, if you want to experiment, is a Metal Halide lamp. SMART FRUTIING CHAMBER LIGHTING

*Incandescent is never recommended for mushrooms. Incandescent lamps emit a red light that is at the opposite end of the spectrum from what mycelium prefers for primordia formation. Use fluorescent, preferably 'natural daylight' tubes with a color temperature above 5,000 Kelvin. LIGHTING

*I said use 6,500 Kelvin natural daylight fluorescent for best results. There is no contradiction. Mushroom cultivation was in its infancy 25 years ago. We've learned a lot since then. Lamps with a color temperature of 6,500 Kelvin are NOT low frequency-they're considered 'blue' light. LIGHTING

*Higher intensity light helps deliver a better pinset than lower intensity light. A few hours is cool, but most growers report better success with 12. The darkness time need not be total darkness. turning on the light to see to see what you're during your mushies 'night' won't hurt anything. LIGHTING FC

*They never need total darkness at any time. Ambient light is fine. 'We' don't say mushrooms require only a small amount of light to grow however. Depending on the species, the results on pinset and performance from much brighter lights is well documented. LIGHTING

*And natural daylight fluorescent takes it a step higher than cool white. They're the best of all. Warm white=3000K, cool white=5000K, and natural daylight fluorescent=6500K. The higher the light temperature in Kelvin, the higher the frequency, or closer to blue light. LIGHTING

*The problem is when the lights are turned off, they will draw in moisture as they cool, then will be wet inside next time they're turned on. It's best to keep the lights outside of the terrarium or mini greenhouse unless they're battery operated. LIGHTS, IN OR OUT OF FC/MARTHA

*And natural daylight fluorescent takes it a step higher than cool white. They're the best of all. Warm white=3000K, cool white=5000K, and natural daylight fluorescent=6500K. The higher the light temperature in Kelvin, the higher the frequency, or closer to blue light. LIGHTING

*I use four 4' natural daylight 6500K fluorescent tubes for my mini greenhouse. It works like a charm. The important thing is to keep the humidity to as close to 100% you can get while still allowing plenty of air exchange. All three are important pinning triggers. LIGHTING

*I've found the brighter the better. You might even move the cakes to where they can get some diffused sunlight each day. Even direct sunlight for a few minutes is a good thing. You might try some damp verm on top of the cake too. That seems to help with pinsets. LIGHTING

*If a light 'looks' blue to your naked eye, it means the blue has been filtered out of the spectrum. It's counterproductive. The blue light is at the high frequency end of the spectrum. The best source of blue light, if you want to experiment, is a Metal Halide lamp. LIGHTING

*5100K is fine. I think 6,500K to 7,500K is better, but when you compare to incandescent bulbs which burn at 3,000K, they're way better. Definitely, you don't want red. You also don't want any sort of colored cover over the bulb, and that includes blue. LIGHTING

*If it's a 'kitchen and bath' fluorescent, it probably has a color temperature of 3,000 Kelvin, just like incandescent. It will still work, but possibly not as well as 'natural daylight' fluorescent. Put it right up close to the fruiting chamber, but not inside. LIGHTING

*5100K is fine. I think 6,500K to 7,500K is better, but when you compare to incandescent bulbs which burn at 3,000K, they're way better. Definitely, you don't want red. You also don't want any sort of colored cover over the bulb, and that includes blue. LIGHTING

*12/12 is optimum, as is light at the high end of the spectrum. For the best bang for your buck, get natural daylight fluorescent tubes and run them 12/12. Mushrooms grow and hyphal knots form primarily in the period of darkness, so 24/7 is a mistake. LIGHTING

*To repeat, light is a pinning trigger, but it isn't the only one, and it's greatly overrated. For the best pinsets, you have to balance several triggers at once. Screw up on any of them, and pinsets suffer, regardless of what you do with light. LIGHTING

*Light has no effect on colonzing mycelium. The information from twenty to thirty years ago to keep them in the dark is just plain wrong. Light is not a pinning trigger until full colonization and a reduction in ambient CO2 levels. LIGHTING

*You want bright fluorescent light in the high frequency range. Look for 'natural daylight' tubes or whatever they call them in your country. They should have a color temperature of 6,000 Kelvin to 7,000 Kelvin for best results. LIGHTING

*NEVER use 24 hour light. They grow and form primordia during the period of darkness. Attics are usually horrible places to grow due to wild temperature swings. Light is required for primordia formation as well. LIGHTING

*12/12 from a high spectrum fluorescent, such as 'natural daylight' tubes with a color temperature of 6,500 Kelvin, will outperform other sources unless you have a bright south window. Avoid direct sun. LIGHTING

*Incandescent is the worst possible light for mushrooms. While it might 'work', you'll get much better performance and pinsets if you'll screw in a compact fluorescent instead of an incandescent light bulb. LIGHTING

*Cool white fluorescent gives the most bang for the buck in my experience. You'll definitely see an increase in pinning activity with metal halides, but they use a lot of energy and produce a lot of heat. LIGHTING

*CFLs use a tiny fraction of the electricity an incandescent bulb uses to produce the same amount of light. If you buy a CFL for mushroom growing, look for one that says 6,500 K on the packaging. LIGHTING

*Light has absolutely NOTHING to do with telling the mycelium that it has reached the surface. The increased fresh air, with the corresponding drop in CO2 levels sends the mycelium that message. LIGHT

*Lighting is extremely important, and it's important to provide it at the right light temperature and intensity. Look for tubes with a light temperature above 5,000K. LIGHTING

*A 13 watt cfl does not produce 60 watts. It produces the lumens a 60 watt incandescent bulb does, but at a higher frequency, which is better for pin formation. LIGHTING

*I'd check the manufacturer website for that info. You can get a 6500K fluorescent fixture and tube for under twenty dollars at your local home megacenter. LIGHTING

*Diffused sunlight through a window is great. In fact, five to ten minutes of direct sunlight will often get a stubborn substrate to begin pinning. LIGHTING

*Bright light stimulates pinning. The light has to be bright enough to penetrate the casing layer. Dim light will result in poor performance. LIGHTING

=5000K, and natural daylight fluorescent=6500K. The higher the light temperature in Kelvin, the higher the frequency, or closer to blue light. LIGHTING

*Fluorescent lighting is great. Look for a color temperature in the 5,000K to 7,000K range. UV light is bad for mushrooms. LIGHTING

*For those of you who have a project that 'just won't pin' try switching to natural daylight fluorescent and watch them take off. LIGHTING

*You don't need a light right on the tub. You can have it near a window(recommended), or use just a regular ceiling light. LIGHTING

*That would explain the no pins. You want a light at the other end of the spectrum. I'd suggest fluorescent tubes. LIGHTING

*You can get a 6500K fluorescent fixture and tube for under twenty dollars at your local home megacenter. LIGHTING

*I use four 4' natural daylight 6500K fluorescent tubes for my mini greenhouse. It works like a charm. LIGHTING

*You don't want blue. You want full spectrum. That means they will look white. LIGHTING

*Light is a secondary pinning trigger, once full colonization has been reached. LIGHTING

*Any cfl would be better than an incandescent light bulb. LIGHTING




you asked for it. :stoner:


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Offlinelibertaire
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Registered: 08/06/08
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Re: Can you grow without lights? [Re: 13shrooms]
    #12405327 - 04/16/10 05:54 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Touche good sir, touche.

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Re: Can you grow without lights? [Re: 13shrooms]
    #12405929 - 04/16/10 08:00 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Amen, brother.


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Re: Can you grow without lights? [Re: 13shrooms]
    #12406127 - 04/16/10 08:46 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Thank you good sir thank you. Thats alot of work to sift through but I'll get it done before the hour is up. :crazy2:


Quote:

13shrooms said:
heres my resource for all I know about lighting.  RRs (mod and TC for years) notes posted here on shroomery. (utsf) :grin:

RR says:
Quote:

LIGHTING





*Light has absolutely NOTHING to do with telling the mycelium that it has reached the surface. The increased fresh air, with the corresponding drop in CO2 levels sends the mycelium that message.
Light is also NOT just to establish the direction the fruits grow. In fact, air currents have a greater effect on direction of growth than light. If you doubt this, place a fan on your crop and watch.
A few seconds of light per day will NOT help to generate a good pinset. In fact, light is a secondary pinning trigger, but an important one. The difference between three or four pins, and hundreds of pins on a substrate can be directly correlated to the length, intensity, and frequency of the light applied, provided the primary pinning triggers have been fulfilled.
The light needs to be intense enough to penetrate 1/2" into the substrate. Not all pins form on the surface. Many originate from deeper in the substrate or casing layer.
Higher frequency light above a color temperature of 5,000 Kelvin will generate far more pins than a 'red' source of light such as incandescent lamps.
Fungi are a living organism that is much more closely related to mammals such as humans, than to plants. People need to quit looking at mycelium as a different kind of plant, which it isn't. Mycelium has been shown to have circadian rhythms just like mammals, and this is the reason that 12/12 light cycles work best. This planet, and all surface life on it are based on the 24-hour day. For best results, learn to work with nature rather than against it. Mycelium has an amazing ability to cope with less than optimal conditions, and will often fruit when a grower does everything wrong. However, do everything right and watch your performance go through the roof.
*Recent experiments (over the last 23 years) have shown the error of that statement in TMC. Many experiments have shown conclusively that fluorescent lamps in the 6500K range produce better pinsets and healthier, meatier fruits than other forms of light. Stamets himself does not repeat that 'flash of light' triggers pinning nonsense. In fact, he recommends fluorescent lamps in the 6,500-Kelvin range for 12/12 just as I do. In addition, there's a huge difference in saying something can result in 'pins', and helping to trigger a very nice flush.
Light, and the intensity/frequency of light is extremely important if one is interested in greater than mediocre performance. Many species, such as agaricus and P cubensis, can pin in the total absence of light. That doesn't mean light isn't required for best results, especially with light sensitive species such as P cubensis and P ostreatus. TMC FAULT, LIGHTING, WHY



*You want full spectrum light for best results. Indirect light from a window is fine. Hyphal knot formation is stimulated more by light at the higher end of the scale than at the lower end of the scale. A color temperature of around 6500K is just about perfect. This is the color produced by 'natural daylight fluorescent' tubes. For the geeks, I'll explain color temperature briefly. We all know when we heat a piece of metal, it first begins to glow red. We see this when we heat a syringe needle over a flame. If we continue to heat it, the metal will eventually glow white hot. As we heat it more and more the white color begins to take on a blue hue, provided the metal doesn't melt down into a puddle first. This is why tungsten in a vacuum is often used for light bulb filaments.
The Kelvin color temperature system is essentially the color a piece of dark metal will glow when heated to a specific temperature. The Kelvin scale starts at absolute zero, roughly -237C. This is Zero K. The scale follows the Celsius temperature scale and remains constant. Therefore, water freezes at 237K and boils at 337K. If you heat a piece of metal to a temperature of 4,763C, the resulting glow will have a color temperature of 5,000K. The color scale is used as 'corrected' color temperature when fluorescent or other gas type lighting fixtures are used. A 'natural daylight' fluorescent tube with a color temperature of 6500K would glow with the same color as a dark object heated to a temperature of 6,263C.
Color temperature is not an indication of the intensity of light, only its color. Mycelium forms fruits best with light at the 'blue' end of the spectrum, thus a higher color temperature is required for best performance. Look for lighting with a high color temperature such as fluorescent. Cool white fluorescent has a color temperature of 5,000K and natural daylight has a color temperature of 6,500K. Avoid UV light that is too high, and has been known to damage mycelium, as well as cause mutations, and cancer in humans.
Incandescent light bulbs by contrast, have a color temperature of around 3000K, which puts them in the 'red' end of the spectrum, and they are the worst choice for fruiting mushrooms. WHAT YOU WANT!



*Many things. I've found the brightest light stimulates more pins. You need to look at pinning triggers like the instruments in a band. One instrument can be slightly off, and the band still plays the song. Often one instrument can be taken away and the music still sounds ok. However, if all are working together, it's awesome.
Perhaps the projects you remove from light after exposure are maintaining a higher humidity due to no heat from the lights. Humidity is a pinning trigger just like light. Maybe the ones you remove from the lights get better air circulation. Fresh air is a pinning trigger just like light.
For the record, light has no effect on colonizing mycelium, good or bad. The old advice of "incubate in total darkness" is bunk. Stamets wrote those words in TMC 20 years ago, and he disavows that advice today. I concur. The only real time that keeping in the dark has an advantage in my experience is during casing run, when the introduction of light after casing colonization can serve as one of the pinning triggers along with air exchange and proper humidity. Bare in mind, you want a constant rate of evaporation from your substrate to achieve the best pinset. If you're at 100% humidity, there will be little to no moisture evaporating from your casing layer, and pinsets will suffer.
To repeat, light is a pinning trigger, but it isn't the only one, and it's greatly overrated. For the best pinsets, you have to balance several triggers at once. Screw up on any of them, and pinsets suffer, regardless of what you do with light. LIGHTING



*Normal room lighting has no effect on colonizing mycelium, either good or bad. This is one of the old myths perpetuated by stamets 'The Mushroom Cultivator', that was incorrect 20 years ago when it was written. He corrected his own mistake in GGMM, but fewer people have read that one because it centers more on edibles, than on psilocybe mushrooms. My own research says light doesn't make one whit of difference to colonizing mycelium in jars. The time to protect from light is during spawn run of bulk substrates and casing layers. During the initial colonization of grains or brf cakes, it doesn't matter. Light is required for primordia formation as well. Bulk substrate colonization is the last step prior to fruiting. The only reason for keeping a bulk substrate, and especially the casing layer dark during colonization is for the timing of the pinset initiation. It allows you to introduce all the major pinning triggers simultaneously, resulting in an explosion of pins. A bulk substrate will colonize just fine if exposed to light from day one, but then you aren't maximizing potential by synchronizing the pinning triggers. LIGHTING

*TMC is a classic and I still refer to it a lot. In the last twenty years we've learned a few things though. One, as hyphae said is the mycelium metabolite. Another is that colonizing mycelium need not be kept in total darkness. I think Paul fixed that one in GGMM, but I know at his beginners and masters seminars he points that out, and his own incubation rooms filled with hundreds of species, are under 8 to 12 hours per day of fluorescent lighting while work is being done. That has been my experience as well. Light doesn't become a significant pinning trigger prior to full colonization and the introduction of fresh air exchange. This one is probably nitpicking, but I don't like the TMC method of preparing grain jars which is add dry grain, add water and a pinch of gypsum, and PC. We now know that if you'll take the time to rinse the grains very well before cooking, they don't stick and clump up later. There's a couple of others I can't think of now. Nothing major though. It's a great reference work. TMC FAULTS LIGHTING

*While enough light to read by might give a minimum pinset, you want bright, high frequency light to induce a massive pinset. An hour or two in a window with even direct sunlight is great to kick start a pinset, but don't let the tub overheat. For the rest of the cycle, find a way to get the fluorescent to shine through the clear part of the tub. Put the light in front of or behind the tub. It doesn't have to come just from the top. The white lid will reflect side light down just fine. My entire greenhouse is lit from the back with fluorescent fixtures attached to the wall the greenhouse sits against. Cool white fluorescents produce 5000k, which is very close to natural sunlight. Incadescents are a much redder light and only produce at around 3200k, which is not nearly as effective. You want high frequency light for best results. The natural daylight fluorescents are the best, putting out light at around 7000k, but are much more expensive than cool white. Good luck. LIGHTING

*While enough light to read by might give a minimum pinset, you want bright, high frequency light to induce a massive pinset. An hour or two in a window with even direct sunlight is great to kickstart a pinset, but don't let the tub overheat. For the rest of the cycle, find a way to get the fluorescent to shine through the clear part of the tub. Put the light in front of or behind the tub. It doesn't have to come just from the top. The white lid will reflect side light down just fine. My entire greenhouse is lit from the back with fluorescent fixtures attached to the wall the greenhouse sits against. Cool white fluorescents produce 5000k, which is very close to natural sunlight. Incadescents are a much redder light and only produce at around 3200k, which is not nearly as effective. You want high frequency light for best results. The natural daylight fluorescents are the best, putting out light at around 7000k, but are much more expensive than cool white. LIGHTING

*Plants require much more light than mushrooms because they derive energy from the light source. In addition, most mj growers switch to a redder light at fruiting time, not the high frequency 'blue' light we get from our fluorescents. Perhaps you're confusing the Kelvin color temperature scale with intensity? My fluorescent fixture provides light to six shelves, each one eight feet long and three feet deep. That's 144 square feet, thus less than 1 watt per square foot of shelf space. The foil helps to prevent the trays in the back from being shaded by those in front. I challenge the best mj grower in the world to try to grow plants under that. Compact fluorescent bulbs work great as well for fruiting chambers and mini-greenhouses. In addition, LED technology has progressed considerably in the last few years. I'm sure it won't be long before LED fixtures are made with controllers to adjust color temperature. LIGHTING FREQUENCIES, PLANT LIGHTS

*"Of course myc doesn't need dark but we use it to our advantage as a pinning trigger"
Exactly. After spawning the grains or brf or whatever into manure, it's a good idea to cover with foil to keep it in the dark during substrate colonization and casing colonization, and then remove the foil for light and sudden air/gas exchange to trigger pinning. However, I've found no benefit or harm from allowing the grain jars to be exposed to light from day one. If a few pins form in the grains, it is actually a good thing. Contrary to popular belief, a few pins in the grains can be spawned right into the manure or straw (or used in grain to grain transfers) and they do not rot or otherwise cause contamination. There is evidence they actually help to give a faster, more uniform pinset in the eventual flushes. Stamets believes it's the hormones or other chemical triggers in the pins that do this. LIGHTING

*Plants require much more light than mushrooms because they derive energy from the light source. In addition, most mj growers switch to a redder light at fruiting time, not the high frequency 'blue' light we get from our fluorescents. Perhaps you're confusing the Kelvin color temperature scale with intensity? My fluorescent fixture provides light to six shelves, each one eight feet long and three feet deep. That's 144 square feet, thus less than 1 watt per square foot of shelf space. The foil helps to prevent the trays in the back from being shaded by those in front. I challenge the best mj grower in the world to try to grow plants under that. Compact fluorescent bulbs work great as well for fruiting chambers and mini-greenhouses. In addition, LED technology has progressed considerably in the last few years. I'm sure it won't be long before LED fixtures are made with controllers to adjust color temperature. LIGHTING

*Recent experiments (over the last 23 years) have shown the error of that statement in TMC. Many experiments have shown conclusively that fluorescent lamps in the 6500K range produce better pinsets and healthier, meatier fruits than other forms of light. Stamets himself does not repeat that 'flash of light' triggers pinning nonsense. In fact, he recommends fluorescent lamps in the 6,500-Kelvin range for 12/12 just as I do. In addition, there's a huge difference in saying something can result in 'pins', and helping to trigger a very nice flush. Light, and the intensity/frequency of light is extremely important if one is interested in greater than mediocre performance. Many species, such as agaricus and P cubensis, can pin in the total absence of light. That doesn't mean light isn't required for best results, especially with light sensitive species such as P cubensis and P ostreatus. LIGHTING

*Light is very important after full colonization, when an increase in FAE is made. Enough light to 'see the tray' is absolutely NOT enough light unless you're happy with shitty pinsets. Brighter light is better. Higher frequency (blue) light such as is emitted by 'natural daylight fluorescent' tubes which produce light at 6500K are best from mine and Stamets tests. Cool white fluorescent tubes would be a second, lower cost choice and will work fine. Incandescent bulbs which emit 'red' light at 3000K are the worst choice. In addition, 24-hour light is extremely counter productive because hyphal knots form, and the fruit bodies seem to grow the most during the period of darkness. You can all prove that by simply measuring your growing mushrooms when you turn the light on, and again when you shut it off. You'll find growth is higher during the dark phase. LIGHTING

*Use full spectrum light, or a light that is in the higher frequency range. Don't use 'blue' lights or a 'blue' tub. Such is not in any way, shape, or form what the mycelium needs to perform well. The use of 'blue' led's or blue tubs is based on a misunderstanding of what Stamets was talking about in GGMM when he recommended high frequency lights, such as natural daylight fluorescent. This has all been covered ad-nauseam in previous light threads. It absolutely amazes me that people still repeat the 'any light will do' or 'if you can see, your mushrooms have enough light', or 'only a few minutes is enough' etc., etc. If one is satisfied with shitty pinsets, the above is true. If you're less than satisfied with shitty pinsets, use a light in the 6,500-Kelvin range. Incandescent grow lights are one of the worst possible choices. LIGHTING

*At full colonization, light becomes very important. The only real time you need to put your trays in the dark is during casing run. This allows the casing layer to colonize partially without the additional pinning trigger of light acting on it. At the proper time, you expose to light, increase FAE, and have full colonization all at the same time. This results in the best possible pinset. Read Hyphae's pinning strategy in his sig for more information on timing these events. There is no point in putting it into the dark now that it's already pinning. The fluoros you have will be plenty, but try to attach or hang them higher so they can give better direction to the fruits as they grow. It will also help hyphal knots to form if you'll have the light above the casing layer because it will penetrate deeper into it, thus helping to trigger knots. Good luck. LIGHTING

*Light is extremely important to good mushroom formation, and it's nothing to do with which way is up. Gravity takes care of that function. The post quoted above is only one of many times I've typed that. The problem is every time this question gets asked, people repeat the same 'stuff they've read' and thus if one of us fails to catch the misinformation, then somebody gets a grow compromised by using a desk lamp or some other less than desirable lighting source, rather than the best possible lighting. There's enough confusing points in mushroom growing to keep a board like this busy forever. Ask about things you're not sure of, or of the details you don't understand after searching. However, for the basic questions, the answers are all right here at your fingertips. Good luck to all. I'll try to be less pissy. LIGHTING

*In my experience, it's better to expose to light from day one. If you'll just let your bags or jars colonize on a shelf in a room of your house, they'll be exposed to normal room light. This will help to initiate pinning as soon as the substrate is ready to support fruitbodies. Colonizing your jars in the dark only delays pinning, and delay is not good in this hobby. Get light on it right away. I seriously disagree with keeping cubie mycelium in the dark at any time. I expose to light from the time the spores germinate on agar. Sometimes there are even a few pins in the jars when I break them up for the casing. That is no problem. Just mix them in and case it. If you give light from day one, your yields will go up, and you won't face overlay problems. EXPOSING LIGHT FROM DAY ONE

*Lighting is EXTREMELY important for a good pinset. Cubes will fruit in very low light conditions, but bright fluorescent light will help to trigger the pinsets the old timers show all the time that makes folks drool. Actually, you're probably right. The mushrooms don't care that much about light, but the mycelium sure as heck does. Lights, especially fluorescent, should be outside the terrarium, but near enough to flood the fruiting chamber in bright, high frequency light. Don't put the ballast outside and the lamps inside. The tombstones have a fairly high voltage potential across them, and wrapping a warm item in plastic in a wet environment is . . .dumb. There isn't much more useless than 'blue' mood lights, especially from led's. LIGHTING

*There's a world of difference between 'blue spectrum' and what you get when a red light (incandescent) shines through blue plastic. (Dim) By 'blue' they mean high frequency light, such as would be emitted by a metal halide bulb, or natural sunlight fluorescent. You'll want to get better lighting to get the best pinsets. It's better than nothing, but only ten percent of the electricity to run an incandescent is turned into light. The other ninety percent is turned into heat. Fluorescent fixtures are the opposite. 90% of the energy is turned into light and ten percent into heat. They're also closer to the frequency that is ideal for pinning.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/6611363#6611363 LIGHTING

*All lights will produce heat. The light needs to be outside the fruiting chamber. Electricity and 100% humidity don't mix. Don't use blue Christmas lights. They're NOT the correct color temperature. By 'blue' we mean light at the high end of the spectrum. It will still look white to your eyes. As said, 6500 Kelvin fluorescent lights give the best bang for your buck. They're usually labeled 'natural daylight' on the package, as opposed to 'cool white' which are 5,000K and 'warm white' or 'kitchen and bath' which are 3000K, which is referred to as 'red' light, even though they still look white to our eyes. You can also simply place the terrarium in a room with a bright window and let the natural sunlight do the job. LIGHTING

*2700K are awfully red. It might be nice for room light and for reading because it's 'warm', but you want light in the bluer end of the spectrum, so shoot for a frequency above 5,000 Kelvin. Lumens do matter to an extent. We're not deriving energy from the light, but it does need to be bright enough to penetrate into the casing layer. Bright fluorescent light from a 'daylight' type tube seems to help generate the best pinsets over a wide range of species. I have a four-tube 48" fluorescent fixture with 6500-Kelvin tubes in all four slots. This light is plenty for my mini-greenhouse. I have it hanging from the ceiling so it shines into the front of the greenhouse. Reflective foil is on the back wall of the GH. LIGHTING

*It sounds like something else growing in the area. MH is known to cause early pinning in jars because of the high frequency light output of MH. However HPS is more of a red light at the lower end of the spectrum, so it shouldn't be that bad. I'd still move the jars away from it. The heat could cause problems. There is no need to keep colonizing jars in the dark, but there is also no need to expose them to very bright lights either. When fruiting time comes, you'll probably do better to get a natural daylight fluorescent. The 6500K color temperature seems to stimulate primordia formation better than the lower color temperatures of lamps such as incandescent and HPS. LIGHTING

*You want bright light for 12 hours per day, not normal room light, which is usually at the red end of the spectrum if it's from incandescent bulbs, and is the worst possible choice. Incandescent bulbs produce light at 3000K. Cool white fluorescents are a higher frequency light and perform much better, with a color temperature of 5000K, and natural daylight fluorescent produce light at the 'blue' end of the spectrum with a color temperature of 6500K. You don't want blue lights. Light at the high (blue) end of the spectrum will look white to your eyes. You don't get high frequency light by using a bulb with a blue dye on the lens. LIGHTING

*Not at all. They will do best with 12 hours of light. I'd put them in the dark when they're about 90% colonized, then when they are at 100%, birth and begin giving them light at that time. This allows the four major pinning triggers of full colonization, steady rate of evaporation from the substrate, fresh air exchange, and light to all happen at the same time. Such has been shown to give the best pinsets. Light does not become a significant pinning trigger until the other factors have also been met. Many growers dunk at the time of birthing to pump the moisture content up for the first flush. LIGHTING

*Light has neither good nor ill effects on growing mushroom mycelium. It will not hurt, nor help, but there is no need to keep your jars in the dark. Stamets makes this clear in GGMC. He used to recommend incubation in total darkness (TMC), but he no longer recommends this. I concur. If you visit fungi perfect you will see he has 10,000 square feet of incubation space that is exposed to overhead fluorescent lights during the full workday. My jars sit on a shelf in an open room as said above and they're exposed to light from the day spores are started. TMC FAULT, LIGHTING

*The Kelvin scale refers to the color temperature of the light. Briefly stated, if you took a piece of white paper and looked at it under 2,000K such as you'd get from hps, it would look yellow. If you looked at it under 5,000K fluorescent tubes such as you'd find in an office or school classroom, it would look white. If you look at it under 7,500K fluorescent, it would have a blue tint to it. That's what is meant by 'blue' light. You can pick up an inexpensive fluorescent fixture and 7500K fluorescent tubes fairly cheaply at your local hardware store. LIGHTING

*My current setup is a larger fluorescent fixture that holds four 48" tubes, and I have it hanging vertically so it shines in from the front to bathe all five shelves in bright light. I have it about 12" from the door of the GH, so the farthest any substrate is from the light is about 36". The fruits tend to grow toward the light a bit, but that problem is fixed by rotating the trays 180 degrees every couple of days so growth is even. I'm glad to see you got the right frequency of light. 6500K are awesome. You'll never go back to silly night-lights or cool white fluorescent after using one of those. They really do make a difference in pinsets. LIGHTING

*I've still never seen a 150-watt cfl that small. At any rate, with multiple shelves or long shelves, tubes will spread the light out better, thus giving more coverage. I use 5 shelves in my mini-greenhouse, with a 48" fixture hanging vertically in front of the unit, which holds four fluorescent tubes with a color temperature of 6,500K. By hanging the light fixture vertically, the fixture lights the entire greenhouse between all shelves. With only one bulb, you're limited in coverage. They'd be great for tubs and the like, but there is no need for 250 watts. It will burn five or more times the electricity your projects require. LIGHTING

*They do care if they don't get air. You'll get a very poor pinset without several air exchanges per day at the very least. Four to five per hour are recommended. Water beads on the inside of the terrarium have NOTHING to do with humidity. They indicate a temperature differential, nothing else. You want your light outside the terrarium. Fluorescent ballasts generate a high voltage, and that doesn't go with near saturation humidity at all. In addition, a fluorescent ballast and light inside will heat your terrarium a lot. It will be over 90F in there within a few hours. Also, the heat will lower humidity, not raise it. LIGHTING

*Mushrooms grow towards the light. Very true. However, as an experiment, you can put the light above and a fan blowing from right to left. Watch what happens. In the absence of any wind, the mushrooms grow towards the light. You can also screw with your mushrooms if you're bored. Every morning, rotate your trays of pinning/fruiting mushrooms by 90 degrees, and leave them until the next morning, then rotate them an additional 90 degrees. They'll grow up in a spiral. LIGHTING

*You can't argue that light makes a big difference with growers that are happy with crappy pinsets. However, if you want the best pinset and growth you can get, and then use bright light with a color temperature of 5,000 Kelvin to 7500 Kelvin. Of course, there's other parameters that are just as important, if not more important than light. Failure to pay attention to ALL the pinning triggers is like trying to win the Indy 500 with a clogged up air filter or dirty spark plugs. LIGHTING

*It's true that they tend to grow more during the period of darkness, but that's only part of the equation. The other part is that pins for second, third, and future flushes often form during the time of first flush. If you go cheapie on the light after the first flush is set, you hinder primordia development for future flushes. Mushroom mycelium has circadian rhythms just like humans. Give them a day/night cycle and they'll be much happier over the course of several flushes. LIGHTING

*One, a 25W incandescent bulb only puts out the amount of light that a 2.5W fluorescent bulb would put out. Over 90% of the electricity used by a light bulb goes toward making heat, and only 10% of the electricity goes toward making light. With fluorescent, that ratio is reversed. In addition, incandescent bulbs put out light at the red end of the spectrum, and fluorescent lamps put out light near the blue end of the spectrum, which is much better for fungi. LIGHTING

*I've been saying for years that both light and total darkness are vastly overrated when it comes to mushroom growing. Some strains seem to be better at pinning in low light conditions, while others require much more. The other pinning triggers of full colonization, steady evaporation of moisture, and air exchange are much more critical than light. As a general rule however, pinsets will be better with bright, full spectrum lighting over dim/darker conditions. LIGHTING

*The reason intensity is important is because the light needs to penetrate the casing layer to the substrate below. Frequency is also important with light at the higher end of the spectrum, such as natural daylight fluorescent with a light temperature between 6,000K and 7,500K providing the best results. Cool white fluorescent tubes are generally in the 5,000 Kelvin range, and regular incandescent bulbs run about 3,000K, which is the worst possible choice. LIGHTING

*They need light for much more than to know which way is up. A lot has been written about this. Bright, intense light is going to stimulate a much better pinset than dim, low light. 12/12 has shown over the years to give the best performance. I don't even have my lights on a timer anymore unless I go out of town. I plug them in when I get up, and unplug them sometime in the evening. They rarely get exactly 12/12, but close. LIGHTING

*Bright, high frequency light at 12/12 will deliver the most prolific pinsets. You want maximum FAE, high humidity, and bright light, especially with cased substrates. The light needs to be bright enough to penetrate the casing layer for best results. 'Some' pins will form with low levels of light, but if you want the WOW factor, use bright fluorescent light or sunlight from a window. They do best with a period of darkness each day. LIGHTING

*Light has little to no effect on colonizing mycelium. I expose all jars to light from day one. I also incubate on a shelf in an open room at room temperature. If you visit fungi perfecti, you'll see that stamets has 10,000 square feet of incubation area, all of it exposed to fluorescent lights for 8 to 10 hours per day. He no longer recommends incubation in total darkness as he did 20 years ago when he wrote TMC. I concur. TMC FAULT, LIGHTING

*Two things. First, don't install lights inside a terrarium. Even a small light will create heat that causes other problems. Second, if it's incandescent, it's the wrong color temperature. You want a high frequency light such as natural daylight fluorescent for best results. Simply hang it above the terrarium. Bright, intense, high frequency light provides the best pinsets, so get a good one. I use four, 4' natural daylight fluorescent tubes. LIGHTING

*Many fluorescent tubes will have the light temperature stamped on them at the end. Cool white bulbs are in the neighborhood of 5000k while the kitchen and bath fluorescent tubes are warm white, and at 3000K, similar to regular light bulbs. The higher 'k' numbers will deliver better pinsets, because they match outdoor sunlight closer. Fortunately for us, cool white fluorescent which is superior, is also the least expensive. LIGHTING

*UV light strong enough to STERILZE will F/U your eyes, skin, cause cancer & other BS. If it is contained, as in well sheilded..... it works great, but you still need filtration. Best is hepa filter run into UV light sheilded in metal ductwork. Instance I refered to was UV light in metal ductwork behind filter, because it killed anything that got past the filter. The ductwork fed into a "clean" room area & it was fully sheilded. UV LIGHTING

*Natural Daylight fluorescent has been shown to produce the best results. Your milage will vary depending on the genetics of your strain using other types of lights. However, mushroom primordia seem to develop best in the 5,000 Kelvin to 7,500 Kelvin range which is exactly what is delivered by most fluorescent tubes. The Natural Daylight tubes are rated between 6,500 and 7,500 Kelvin depending on manufacturer. LIGHTING

*Brighter lighting will work better than dim, far away lighting. The light needs to penetrate the casing layer. Don't listen to those who say if you can see what's happening, there is enough light. That is incorrect. You can get small fluorescent fixtures intended for under kitchen cabinets for less than ten dollars. Put one a few inches above your plexiglass. Put it high enough that heat isn't transferred, but bright light is. LIGHTING

*The only reason for keeping a bulk substrate, and especially the casing layer dark during colonization is for the timing of the pinset initiation. It allows you to introduce all the major pinning triggers simultaneously, resulting in an explosion of pins. A bulk substrate will colonize just fine if exposed to light from day one, but then you aren't maximizing potential by synchronizing the pinning triggers. LIGHTING

*If you're going to use LED's, use white ones. Your mushrooms need full spectrum light, not mood light, and some evidence points to light at the higher end of the spectrum being somewhat better at setting primordia. Bright light will penetrate deeper into the casing layer, stimulating more pins than dim light. Avoid lights that produce excess heat such as incadescent or halogen. LIGHTING

*The color temperature(not light temperature) of any specialty bulb should be stamped on the package. Normal incandescents are in the 3000K range, which is too low. HPS is even worse, in the 2000K range. You want light at the other end of the spectrum. Cool white fluorescent is around 5000K and natural daylight fluorescent is 6500K, making it the best choice for the money. LIGHTING

*I said use 6,500 Kelvin natural daylight fluorescent for best results. There is no contradiction. Mushroom cultivation was in its infancy 25 years ago. We've learned a lot since then. Lamps with a color temperature of 6,500 Kelvin are NOT low frequency-they're considered 'blue' light. Use natural daylight fluorescent with a color temperature of 6,500 Kelvin for best results. LIGHTING

*Use natural daylight fluorescent with a color temperature of 6,500 Kelvin for best results. I said use 6,500 Kelvin natural daylight fluorescent for best results. There is no contradiction. Mushroom cultivation was in its infancy 25 years ago. We've learned a lot since then. Lamps with a color temperature of 6,500 Kelvin are NOT low frequency-they're considered 'blue' light. LIGHTING

*Normal room light has no effect on colonizing mycelium, either good or bad. Usually, when mycelium stalls, it's due to lack of air exchange. If you have a verm filter, take the lid all the way off for a few minutes and then put it back on. If the mycelium starts to grow again, you know that was the problem. Make sure the inoculation/gas exchange holes are open. LIGHTING

*Correct. A 60 watt light bulb on the ceiling is enough to trigger a few pins. Failure to use proper lighting doesn't mean the entire project is going to fail. It simply means it will be less than what could be achieved by a tad more work. It's sort of like driving your car with one tire flat. You'll still get there, but not as fast, and people will point and giggle. LIGHTING

*Xmas lights have been used for yeats with poor to mediocre results. Don't put too much faith in the experiment done several years ago. Many, many tests since then have shown otherwise. Most any light will stimulate some pins to form, but the higher frequency lights in the 5,000 Kelvin to 7,500 Kelvin range will help to provide the best pinset possible. LIGHTING

*Yes you do. They require light right up until harvest. It provides direction for growth. In fact, many species such as oysters will turn into a mass of coral without adequate light. Shiitake won't grow at all. Cubes without light will twist around, not knowing which way to grow. Performance will suffer. 12/12 right up until harvest is the proper procedure. LIGHTING

*Even MH is at the 'red' end of the spectrum, just not as red as the old SV or HPS. MH has a color temperature of around 4,000K and HPS is around 2000K, but cool white fluorescent is 5,000K and natural daylight fluorescent is 6500K. Regular household light bulbs are around 3000K. The higher the color temperature in Kelvin, the more 'blue' the light is. LIGHTING

*I've measured many flushes of various species on a day to day basis and found that most mushrooms grow more during the period of darkness than during the period of light. The change in temperature caused by cycling the lights 12/12 is also positive. Mushrooms are not plants, but as said above, light does indeed have a major effect on them. LIGHTING

*The main pinning triggers are full colonization, an increase in fresh air that comes with the decrease in CO2 levels, and a steady rate of evaporation from the substrate. Once those conditions have been met, light becomes a secondary pinning trigger. A few minutes of light will work, but 12/12 has been shown to produce superior product. LIGHTING

*That's why growers who use a very bright fluorescent light in the higher part of the color spectrum have much better pinsets and yields than those who use ambient room, or worse yet, only a few minutes a day of dim light. The light should be bright enough to penetrate well into the casing layer, which should also be loose and airy. LIGHTING

*Light is only a secondary pinning trigger, not the main one. Full colonization of the substrate, with an increase in air exchange are the two biggies. For best results, all the pinning triggers should be introduced at once. You'll have to say more than 'kit' to get help, and 'dirt' is what you get under your fingernails. Mushrooms don't grow on it. LIGHTING

*They require light right up until harvest. It provides direction for growth. In fact, many species such as oysters will turn into a mass of coral without adequate light. Shiitake won't grow at all. Cubes without light will twist around, not knowing which way to grow. Performance will suffer. 12/12 right up until harvest is the proper procedure. LIGHTING

*Light at the higher end of the spectrum is far superior to light at the low end of the spectrum. Incandescent light bulbs with a color temperature of 3,000 kelvin are considered 'red', and natural daylight fluorescent with a color temperature of 6,500 kelvin are considered 'blue' which is superior. Search the above terms for much more. LIGHTING

*Lots of people are satisified with 'less' light. It's just that if you want the best possible results, go with the best of all possible setups, which means best light, best substrate, best temperature, best humidity, etc. By all means if anyone is satisifed with less, go for it. Many of use raise growing to an artform, but not all. To each his own. LIGHTING

*Just use a plain fluorescent bulb, and keep it above the terrarium, not inside it. Heat isn't an issue that way. As said, there's a big difference between short wavelength light(blue spectrum) and a light that makes your walls 'look' blue. However, the whole blue light thing is overrated. Use a full spectrum lamp. LIGHTING FRUITING

*All you need to do is rotate your tubs every day or two to offset the light from an angle. Even if you don't, it's cool to see them grow towards the light. There's really no reason they need to grow straight up, and growing at an angle actually gives the caps more room to spread out without interferring with each other. LIGHTING

*Just use a plain fluorescent bulb, and keep it above the terrarium, not inside it. Heat isn't an issue that way. As said, there's a big difference between short wavelength light(blue spectrum) and a light that makes your walls 'look' blue. However, the whole blue light thing is overrated. Use a full spectrum lamp. LIGHTING

*If it's incandescent, it's the wrong color temperature. You want a high frequency light such as natural daylight fluorescent for best results. Simply hang it above the terrarium. Bright, intense, high frequency light provides the best pinsets, so get a good one. I use four, 4' natural daylight fluorescent tubes. LIGHTING

*What you're giving is great. There are no hard and fast rules. Some experienced folks give more light, some less, but all get great pinsets, so don't worry too much about light. A few hours a day is fine, so placing your project near a window where it gets diffused sunlight, but no direct sunlight is ideal. LIGHTING

*You want lights that are high in the color spectrum, thus a color temperature of 6500 to 7000 Kelvin works great. It will look bright white to your eyes. Christmas lights are a poor choice. They do have some full spectrum LED's out now, or you can use 'natural daylight' compact fluorescent lamps. LIGHTING

*If a light 'looks' blue to your naked eye, it means the blue has been filtered out of the spectrum. It's counterproductive. The blue light is at the high frequency end of the spectrum. The best source of blue light, if you want to experiment, is a Metal Halide lamp. SMART FRUTIING CHAMBER LIGHTING

*Incandescent is never recommended for mushrooms. Incandescent lamps emit a red light that is at the opposite end of the spectrum from what mycelium prefers for primordia formation. Use fluorescent, preferably 'natural daylight' tubes with a color temperature above 5,000 Kelvin. LIGHTING

*I said use 6,500 Kelvin natural daylight fluorescent for best results. There is no contradiction. Mushroom cultivation was in its infancy 25 years ago. We've learned a lot since then. Lamps with a color temperature of 6,500 Kelvin are NOT low frequency-they're considered 'blue' light. LIGHTING

*Higher intensity light helps deliver a better pinset than lower intensity light. A few hours is cool, but most growers report better success with 12. The darkness time need not be total darkness. turning on the light to see to see what you're during your mushies 'night' won't hurt anything. LIGHTING FC

*They never need total darkness at any time. Ambient light is fine. 'We' don't say mushrooms require only a small amount of light to grow however. Depending on the species, the results on pinset and performance from much brighter lights is well documented. LIGHTING

*And natural daylight fluorescent takes it a step higher than cool white. They're the best of all. Warm white=3000K, cool white=5000K, and natural daylight fluorescent=6500K. The higher the light temperature in Kelvin, the higher the frequency, or closer to blue light. LIGHTING

*The problem is when the lights are turned off, they will draw in moisture as they cool, then will be wet inside next time they're turned on. It's best to keep the lights outside of the terrarium or mini greenhouse unless they're battery operated. LIGHTS, IN OR OUT OF FC/MARTHA

*And natural daylight fluorescent takes it a step higher than cool white. They're the best of all. Warm white=3000K, cool white=5000K, and natural daylight fluorescent=6500K. The higher the light temperature in Kelvin, the higher the frequency, or closer to blue light. LIGHTING

*I use four 4' natural daylight 6500K fluorescent tubes for my mini greenhouse. It works like a charm. The important thing is to keep the humidity to as close to 100% you can get while still allowing plenty of air exchange. All three are important pinning triggers. LIGHTING

*I've found the brighter the better. You might even move the cakes to where they can get some diffused sunlight each day. Even direct sunlight for a few minutes is a good thing. You might try some damp verm on top of the cake too. That seems to help with pinsets. LIGHTING

*If a light 'looks' blue to your naked eye, it means the blue has been filtered out of the spectrum. It's counterproductive. The blue light is at the high frequency end of the spectrum. The best source of blue light, if you want to experiment, is a Metal Halide lamp. LIGHTING

*5100K is fine. I think 6,500K to 7,500K is better, but when you compare to incandescent bulbs which burn at 3,000K, they're way better. Definitely, you don't want red. You also don't want any sort of colored cover over the bulb, and that includes blue. LIGHTING

*If it's a 'kitchen and bath' fluorescent, it probably has a color temperature of 3,000 Kelvin, just like incandescent. It will still work, but possibly not as well as 'natural daylight' fluorescent. Put it right up close to the fruiting chamber, but not inside. LIGHTING

*5100K is fine. I think 6,500K to 7,500K is better, but when you compare to incandescent bulbs which burn at 3,000K, they're way better. Definitely, you don't want red. You also don't want any sort of colored cover over the bulb, and that includes blue. LIGHTING

*12/12 is optimum, as is light at the high end of the spectrum. For the best bang for your buck, get natural daylight fluorescent tubes and run them 12/12. Mushrooms grow and hyphal knots form primarily in the period of darkness, so 24/7 is a mistake. LIGHTING

*To repeat, light is a pinning trigger, but it isn't the only one, and it's greatly overrated. For the best pinsets, you have to balance several triggers at once. Screw up on any of them, and pinsets suffer, regardless of what you do with light. LIGHTING

*Light has no effect on colonzing mycelium. The information from twenty to thirty years ago to keep them in the dark is just plain wrong. Light is not a pinning trigger until full colonization and a reduction in ambient CO2 levels. LIGHTING

*You want bright fluorescent light in the high frequency range. Look for 'natural daylight' tubes or whatever they call them in your country. They should have a color temperature of 6,000 Kelvin to 7,000 Kelvin for best results. LIGHTING

*NEVER use 24 hour light. They grow and form primordia during the period of darkness. Attics are usually horrible places to grow due to wild temperature swings. Light is required for primordia formation as well. LIGHTING

*12/12 from a high spectrum fluorescent, such as 'natural daylight' tubes with a color temperature of 6,500 Kelvin, will outperform other sources unless you have a bright south window. Avoid direct sun. LIGHTING

*Incandescent is the worst possible light for mushrooms. While it might 'work', you'll get much better performance and pinsets if you'll screw in a compact fluorescent instead of an incandescent light bulb. LIGHTING

*Cool white fluorescent gives the most bang for the buck in my experience. You'll definitely see an increase in pinning activity with metal halides, but they use a lot of energy and produce a lot of heat. LIGHTING

*CFLs use a tiny fraction of the electricity an incandescent bulb uses to produce the same amount of light. If you buy a CFL for mushroom growing, look for one that says 6,500 K on the packaging. LIGHTING

*Light has absolutely NOTHING to do with telling the mycelium that it has reached the surface. The increased fresh air, with the corresponding drop in CO2 levels sends the mycelium that message. LIGHT

*Lighting is extremely important, and it's important to provide it at the right light temperature and intensity. Look for tubes with a light temperature above 5,000K. LIGHTING

*A 13 watt cfl does not produce 60 watts. It produces the lumens a 60 watt incandescent bulb does, but at a higher frequency, which is better for pin formation. LIGHTING

*I'd check the manufacturer website for that info. You can get a 6500K fluorescent fixture and tube for under twenty dollars at your local home megacenter. LIGHTING

*Diffused sunlight through a window is great. In fact, five to ten minutes of direct sunlight will often get a stubborn substrate to begin pinning. LIGHTING

*Bright light stimulates pinning. The light has to be bright enough to penetrate the casing layer. Dim light will result in poor performance. LIGHTING

=5000K, and natural daylight fluorescent=6500K. The higher the light temperature in Kelvin, the higher the frequency, or closer to blue light. LIGHTING

*Fluorescent lighting is great. Look for a color temperature in the 5,000K to 7,000K range. UV light is bad for mushrooms. LIGHTING

*For those of you who have a project that 'just won't pin' try switching to natural daylight fluorescent and watch them take off. LIGHTING

*You don't need a light right on the tub. You can have it near a window(recommended), or use just a regular ceiling light. LIGHTING

*That would explain the no pins. You want a light at the other end of the spectrum. I'd suggest fluorescent tubes. LIGHTING

*You can get a 6500K fluorescent fixture and tube for under twenty dollars at your local home megacenter. LIGHTING

*I use four 4' natural daylight 6500K fluorescent tubes for my mini greenhouse. It works like a charm. LIGHTING

*You don't want blue. You want full spectrum. That means they will look white. LIGHTING

*Light is a secondary pinning trigger, once full colonization has been reached. LIGHTING

*Any cfl would be better than an incandescent light bulb. LIGHTING




you asked for it. :stoner:



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Invisiblegeorge castanzaM
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Re: Can you grow without lights? [Re: shroomer42]
    #12406198 - 04/16/10 09:02 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/10635046#10635046

Interstitially enough a search yielded a shit ton of RR's post so I guess this is one he has answered a thousand times.

So reply to one of those threads.

:vaped:


--------------------
KRAMER CAKES



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Invisiblegeorge castanzaM
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Re: Can you grow without lights? [Re: shroomer42]
    #12406216 - 04/16/10 09:05 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

This thread has been closed.

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