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OfflineToadKDawg
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Figuring out what's wrong; no germination with brown rice tek
    #12359848 - 04/09/10 02:46 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Hello, for the past two weeks I've been attempting to get some spores to germinate using the beginners PF Tek V2.  I'm trying to find out what the most likely cause is for my lack of results...

at this moment, I have about 18 jars from two weeks a few days post inoculation...  not a single one is showing any visible signs of Mycelium.

One thing I'm considering, is the age of the equipment and spores that I am using.  All of the spores are hand-me-downs, from five years old, to one year old...  I am not certain that they were kept in cool dark environments, but I assume so because knowledgeable people were holding them.

The jars I am using, a small bits of rust on the lids around where the holes were made - I'm curious if this would have an effect on anything?

also, the brown rice I am using is roughly 5 years old, but was sealed airtight in a Ziploc bag, and I am cranking it with a coffee grinder... might this be the problem?

Another thing I worry about is the pressure cooker - my friend and I successfully inoculated, and had germination using this tech method before; but she did the pressure cooking for only 20 or so minutes...  I am doing the pressure cooking for about half an hour;  I'm wondering how big a danger is there an over pressure cooking?  my friend didn't even lying at the bottom of his pressure cooker, while I am mining the bottom with tinfoil.  I'm also covering my jars with tinfoil cooking process, and notice a few drops of water on top of the lids once taken out...  could be small drops of water be contaminating everything?  I use minimal water for the substrate, but tapwater for the pressure cooker. 

I'm not giving up, but it is mildly frustrating, because it seems like none of the spores are going to germinate...  and since I've only done this twice before, with friends I am still largely a noob...

so, basically just hunting for areas most commonly screwed up in the process.  From what I've read, it shouldn't be my pressure cooking technique.  And I have read of spores lasing people 7 to 10 years.  doh! Any advice or help is appreciated!

(Some additional information)
*jars being kept at room temperature, 70 to 78°
*jars were not tamped down
*spore syringes, the needles were sterilized using blue flame on my stove... until glowing red, 20 to 30 seconds of cool off with some solution squirted out beforehand
*my honey tech isn't working either :-(

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InvisibleDoc_T
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Re: Figuring out what's wrong; no germination with brown rice tek [Re: ToadKDawg]
    #12360268 - 04/09/10 05:47 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Buy fresh spores from a sponsor.
And/or use agar plates to grab the tiny bit of myc you have.


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OfflineNanoid
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Registered: 03/30/10
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Re: Figuring out what's wrong; no germination with brown rice tek [Re: Doc_T]
    #12360437 - 04/09/10 07:08 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Just be patient.  I am currently on my first grow, and it took almost a month before I saw any growth whatsoever in my jars.  And it took them a good month to fully colonize, hell some are still colonizing.

As long as there is no contam, just keep waiting and make sure the jars are at least 70 degrees and not to exceed 86 degrees.  Optimal is somewhere between 75 and 80.  Just keep at room temp to be safe unless your room is constantly below 65 degrees.

Other things could be the problem, like old spores or old rice flour, but my guess is you just need to wait it out longer.  Give it two more weeks, and if you don't see anything at that point, get yourself some reliable spores from a sponsored Shroomery vendor. 

This also is a good test of your sterilizing methods.  If the jars remain uncontaminated after a whole month of no growth at all (even mold or bacteria) then at least your sterilizing methods are solid.


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Invisibleanti-flag
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Re: Figuring out what's wrong; no germination with brown rice tek [Re: Nanoid]
    #12360458 - 04/09/10 07:18 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

sound like you need new stuff my man. everthing you have is old and cheap to replace :thumbup:


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InvisibleKhaos


Registered: 03/07/10
Posts: 183
Re: Figuring out what's wrong; no germination with brown rice tek [Re: ToadKDawg]
    #12360477 - 04/09/10 07:24 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

If I'm reading correctly.
You said you inoculated 2 weeks ago and no growth has shown?

Keep them another 2 weeks. You may get contaminates which will answer that. Or mycelium growth will finally show meaning the old spores were just slow from age.

If no growth at all appears after 2 weeks then it is almost certainly either that the spores were bad or you inoculated too soon after pressure cooking and the spores were cooked in the heat.


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"Surely all Americans have the right to give their money only to those causes which they support. But what kind of society has this created? A society where the ignorant reign. A society where enlightened must hold their tongues. A nation whose politicians must profess half-hearted devotion to an ancient fable or face the disastrous consequences of speaking their true mind." -Chris Mccandless 1987

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Offlinescatmanrav
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Re: Figuring out what's wrong; no germination with brown rice tek [Re: Khaos]
    #12360690 - 04/09/10 08:35 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

All of your stuff, the jars, rice, PC should be fine. The only problem with old things is the spores. They can work after 1-5 years..but theres not guarentee and they wont work well. I have just tried to revive my cultures after that long. I've tried about 15 and only 4 strains have got going, 2 of them took some time and effort though.

Get some new syringes and use your old rice and equipment.


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay

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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Figuring out what's wrong; no germination with brown rice tek [Re: ToadKDawg]
    #12360827 - 04/09/10 09:14 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Five year old spores have about a 90% or better chance of being dead.  They last longer in syringes, but a dry sporeprint on paper is pretty much toast after five years.  Get new ones.

Next time, I'd suggest to PC for an hour.  I doubt that's the problem here, but it's good practice.  The old pf tek said 20  to 30 minutes, but that's insufficient.
RR


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OfflineToadKDawg
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Re: Figuring out what's wrong; no germination with brown rice tek [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #12361110 - 04/09/10 10:24 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Thanks for the help all!

As for inoculating into still hot substrate... several of the substrates were 1, 2, or even 3 days old after being sterilized.  Thus far no growth of contaminants either, which is something I totally forgot to consider... I assume ugly colored stuff... 

Is it ok after PC'ing to have a little bit of water on the lid?

Also, Im using 2 part lids which I have screwed on, wasn't sure if I should be taping over the holes on the lids, and or loosening the lids a bit.  (Previously I've never done so).

So, yeah...prolly, new spores needed....

Thanks again!

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OfflineEntheogenic
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Registered: 11/23/01
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Re: Figuring out what's wrong; no germination with brown rice tek [Re: ToadKDawg]
    #12362381 - 04/09/10 02:43 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

I had a similar situation recently with an old spore syringe.  After a month there was no growth in any of 12 jars that were all inoculated the same time.

The bad news is that a month later, there was still no growth.  Dead spores, undoubtedly.  The good news, however, is that there was no growth of ANY kind (contaminant or otherwise) in the jars. 

Just for shits and giggles I left those jars to sit for another couple of months.  After 4 months, 9 of them were still uncontaminated, 1 had green mold, 1 had black mold, and one had something resembling cobweb.  After that I disposed of the whole box.

Despite the wasted effort, it was good to see that the sterile technique was keeping contaminants out of the jars for at least 2 months, and after 4 months only 25% of the jars were contaminated.  I'd say that's statistically significant.

Entheogenic


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Offlinescatmanrav
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Re: Figuring out what's wrong; no germination with brown rice tek [Re: Entheogenic]
    #12362399 - 04/09/10 02:47 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

I've done similar..after 1-2 months of no growth I've reinjected them too with a different syringe or strain and had them work.


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineToadKDawg
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Registered: 03/24/10
Posts: 5
Last seen: 13 years, 10 months
Re: Figuring out what's wrong; no germination with brown rice tek [Re: scatmanrav]
    #12435132 - 04/21/10 11:00 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Well it's been another two weeks almost, no growth of any sort... oh well, at least there is no mold or anything else funky

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InvisibleSmartweed
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Re: Figuring out what's wrong; no germination with brown rice tek [Re: ToadKDawg]
    #12435607 - 04/22/10 12:30 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Wow 5 year old brown rice... and spores who knows how old they are...

I would get some new materials and some proper spores if you wanna grow some mushrooms.


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OfflineToadKDawg
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Re: Figuring out what's wrong; no germination with brown rice tek [Re: Smartweed]
    #12446774 - 04/23/10 10:19 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Righto, so I checked all my jars and several have turned from the beige... desert like colors of the BR & Verm. substrate to a earthy, brown green color EXACTLY where I inoculated.  They also smell a lil... musky??? (I dumped the cakes out).  Its been ROUGHLY a month for my jars, give or take a week.  I'd securely say at least 4 weeks tho. 

Anyways here is a pic.  with the dark spot dead center.


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InvisibleKhaos


Registered: 03/07/10
Posts: 183
Re: Figuring out what's wrong; no germination with brown rice tek [Re: ToadKDawg]
    #12450515 - 04/24/10 05:33 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Looks like bacteria.


--------------------
"Surely all Americans have the right to give their money only to those causes which they support. But what kind of society has this created? A society where the ignorant reign. A society where enlightened must hold their tongues. A nation whose politicians must profess half-hearted devotion to an ancient fable or face the disastrous consequences of speaking their true mind." -Chris Mccandless 1987

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